Lost absolute now I have to pay to send their equipment back.

[HanoverPretzel]

What it comes down to is people wanting something for free (the return shipping).

My feeling is, if they want their equipment back, they should pay for shipping or provide an easy drop-off location. That's how most other companies I've dealt with operate. That's apparently how Dish itself *used* to operate. Given that they have local installers come to your place of residence to install the thing, that doesn't seem like too much to ask. It's unreasonable to demand that someone who is canceling a service -- perhaps because he or she can no longer afford it -- pay for anything additional at that juncture. It smacks of soaking someone on their way out because they can. And it's not really a fee for a service, because really, does the departing customer care whether Dish gets that equipment back or not? Dish demands that the customer to send it the box and remotes and stuff, and then on top of that demands that the customer pay to send it. It's charging the customer a fee so that customer can provide the company a service. Should be illegal, honestly.

 

[bebop]

I don't think it should be illegal, and I'm going to use the $15 prepaid label that they are sending me, rather than mail it myself after checking the numbers. I'd rather have them change the setup so we can drop off the equipment though. I understand it's a lease and have taken care of the equipment as such (didn't modify the receiver cover to keep it from over-heating, etc.). My credit for cancelling earlier in the month was $20 so it will be applied to the shipping label that I will use. It was clear on making the call today that using the shipping label is optional and the cost is only applied if the label is activated.

 

[dangue]

My feeling is, if they want their equipment back, they should pay for shipping or provide an easy drop-off location. That's how most other companies I've dealt with operate. That's apparently how Dish itself *used* to operate. Given that they have local installers come to your place of residence to install the thing, that doesn't seem like too much to ask. It's unreasonable to demand that someone who is canceling a service -- perhaps because he or she can no longer afford it -- pay for anything additional at that juncture. It smacks of soaking someone on their way out because they can. And it's not really a fee for a service, because really, does the departing customer care whether Dish gets that equipment back or not? Dish demands that the customer to send it the box and remotes and stuff, and then on top of that demands that the customer pay to send it. It's charging the customer a fee so that customer can provide the company a service. Should be illegal, honestly.

Dish doesn't care if the customer doesn't return the leased equipment. They're fine with letting you keep it and charging full retail price for it (turning the leased equipment into owned equipment). So yes, really, the departing customer should care about whether they return the leased equipment. Remember, Dish never forced anyone to lease the equipment, everyone that is complaining about having to pay the cost of shipping it back could have avoided leasing entirely by purchasing the equipment outright. They then could have attempted to sell their owned equipment on eBay or a similar site (at that point they probably could have had whoever bought the equipment pay for shipping and avoided the cost of shipping in that manner).

The whole notion of returning to a local installer is ludicrous. The majority of the installers are third parties that simply have contracts with Dish related to the installing of equipment and service calls. And the process isn't just verifying that the proper equipment is returned, Dish has to make sure it has not been damaged in any way (opening the unit up for inspection). And oftentimes the units are reburbished, recertified for use and put back into the distribution chain. Are people expecting the local dealers to take care of all that? I think what people want is to drop off the equipment and then leave up to the local dealers and Dish to deal with actually shipping it where it has to go. Again, that's just seeking to avoid the cost of returning the equipment by foisting it on someone else.

I agree that it would be more consumer friendly for Dish to absorb the cost of return shipping of leased equipment, but given the competitive environment they are faced with, it makes more sense to not cover shipping for free than to raise rates on continuing customers to cover the costs they would otherwise incur because of former customers.

 

[bebop]

I don't know about 'ludicrous'.

What if the local retailer did so much business with Dish that the shipping was already covered and they simply put the customer's box in with the rest of the shipping items? That way it would still go to Dish to checkout, and still need to be there in a timely manner.

Maybe they are able to get the prepaid labels for $15 already because of the higher volume of shipping they do which make that a moot point.

 

[dangue]

I don't know about 'ludicrous'.

What if the local retailer did so much business with Dish that the shipping was already covered and they simply put the customer's box in with the rest of the shipping items? That way it would still go to Dish to checkout, and still need to be there in a timely manner.

Maybe they are able to get the prepaid labels for $15 already because of the higher volume of shipping they do which make that a moot point.

There are already reported problems with Dish "losing" returned receivers and people having to provide a tracking number for proof of delivery. How much worse would it get if receivers were shipped back in batches or simply included with "the rest of the shipping items" that you say the local dealer is already sending to Dish?

And if the local dealers aren't the ones inspecting the boxes then what's to protect consumers from boxes that are damaged while in the dealer's possession (or vice versa, what's to protect Dish from consumer claims that any damage must have occurred after the receiver was dropped off)?

Involving a third party intermediary doesn't simplify the issue, it just adds complexity and more opportunity for something to go wrong.

And yes, I suspect Dish is able to provide a $15 label because of the volume of shipments their company makes. The company I work for deals with FedEx a lot and our corporate rate is MUCH MUCH cheaper than what would be quoted to an individual with similar shipping needs who walked into a local FedEx Kinkos location.

 

[justen]

My mother had one receiver on her account that DiSH insisted was leased (although my recollection was that we paid the dealer for all three of her receivers). After she passed away, I returned the one additional receiver to them. They provided the label, there were no additional charges. It wasn't a "sympathy" thing on their part, as they never even asked why I was cancelling (which I thought was a bit strange, but didn't think much about it given that there were other things on my mind).

Late last year, a friend of mine that I had referred to DiSH gave up after having a number of bad customer service experiences. I helped her switch to TimeWarner, order her CableCards, and get the TiVo boxes setup and connected. After the cable installation, I called DiSH to cancel for her and was told she'd be paying the $30 for shipping her two receivers back. (The representative also insisted I would need to climb up on the roof and get the LNB, as well, which was something I'd never heard of anyone being told to do before.) The supervisor I spoke with said the shipping fees were implemented earlier in 2010. I asked for the nearest local dropoff location and was told DiSH no longer allowed equipment to be returned to their authorized representatives. I told her I thought it was disappointing for them to slip the fee in like that, and essentially hold customers hostage with the threat of a non-return fee unless the "official" label was used. (I've read the horror stories of folks returning equipment, even by trackable means, only to be charged non-return fees anyway.)

After telling her I'd be happy to pay for shipping to their corporate offices, along with my equipment and a letter requesting cancellation of my account as well, she agreed to waive the fees for my friend. After putting me on hold for over fifteen minutes, she also came back and said they'd "waive" the return of the LNB. When I told her it'd be the last time I refer anyone to DiSH until they fix their customer service problems, I meant it.

(As an aside, having had a fair bit experience with logistics and the bigger couriers in the United States and Canada, I'm sure a company of DiSH's shipping volume doesn't pay even half of that $15, at least not for ground shipping. Not that the shipping cost in and of itself is the only expense in handling returned equipment by any stretch of the imagination, but it's certainly my experience that DiSH is the only company that charges for that return shipping -- and, as noted, they didn't do this for the first fifteen-plus years of their DBS-existence. I think most companies regard return shipping simply a cost of doing business where leased equipment is involved. I'd guess the higher churn back in 2009 and early 2010 was probably the reason for this "cost-cutting" measure.)

 

[HanoverPretzel]

I agree that it would be more consumer friendly for Dish to absorb the cost of return shipping of leased equipment, but given the competitive environment they are faced with, it makes more sense to not cover shipping for free than to raise rates on continuing customers to cover the costs they would otherwise incur because of former customers.

Or maybe they could just slim down their profit margin by a very small amount to cover the cost of return shipping. If, as you said, they are in a competitive environment, then one of the areas they are competing in is customer service. Comcast lets you drop off equipment locally for free when you cancel or downgrade or whatever and I think most other cable providers are the same way. It's been 10+ years since I've had Directv, but, if I recall correctly, they give you your equipment and let you keep it when you cancel. So, on that front of the customer service battle, it looks like Dish is coming in third.

 

[dangue]

As an aside, having had a fair bit experience with logistics and the bigger couriers in the United States and Canada, I'm sure a company of DiSH's shipping volume doesn't pay even half of that $15, at least not for ground shipping.

Given the weight of the receivers in these packages it wouldn't surprise me if it's closer to $15 than you think. But I don't have a lot of experience with ground shipping rates, so I could be wrong.

 

[whatchel1]

Or maybe they could just slim down their profit margin by a very small amount to cover the cost of return shipping. If, as you said, they are in a competitive environment, then one of the areas they are competing in is customer service. Comcast lets you drop off equipment locally for free when you cancel or downgrade or whatever and I think most other cable providers are the same way. It's been 10+ years since I've had Directv, but, if I recall correctly, they give you your equipment and let you keep it when you cancel. So, on that front of the customer service battle, it looks like Dish is coming in third.

10+ years is well before HD equipment. Neither E* or D* are cable co's w/ local offices, so that doesn't count either. Both have cable shows but they are sat co's. If you think that E* is 3rd place then feel free to talk to the other 2. You are just not gonna drop this are you?

 

[dangue]

Or maybe they could just slim down their profit margin by a very small amount to cover the cost of return shipping. If, as you said, they are in a competitive environment, then one of the areas they are competing in is customer service. Comcast lets you drop off equipment locally for free when you cancel or downgrade or whatever and I think most other cable providers are the same way. It's been 10+ years since I've had Directv, but, if I recall correctly, they give you your equipment and let you keep it when you cancel. So, on that front of the customer service battle, it looks like Dish is coming in third.

Two things, first, it's a publicly held company, their duty to their shareholders is to maximize profits.

Speculation on my part: I'm sure they'd get rid of the cost if they thought it would be profitable to do so in the long run. Likely, someone crunched the numbers and decided they weren't getting enough returning customers to justify the expense of paying for equipment returns (and so labels stopped being free).

Secondly, the drop off at the cable company locally isn't a valid comparison. By definition, those companies have local cable franchises and and therefore those companies have local offices, Dish does not have local offices across the country. Third party retailers are just that, third parties, not Dish. Even aside from that, you still pay the transport costs (gas and wear and tear on your car) to get the equipment to your cable company. So while the costs might be cheaper, you're still bearing the cost of returning the equipment.

 

[mike123abc]

It comes down to a simple concept. They have lost you as a customer anyways. Charging you to ship back (or you having to ship back at your own expense) the leased equipment is a way to make money. Since you have already gone, you being upset and potentially cancelling service does not apply. Human nature is to downplay bad experiences over time... In a couple years after your DIRECTV contract time has expired you probably will not really care that you spent $15 to send back the receivers.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

Two things, first, it's a publicly held company, their duty to their shareholders is to maximize profits.

The public grants these corporations charters and special rights like limited liability. I would suggest that perhaps they have an obligation to the public good, and not just to their shareholders. That idea was implicit in some of the early discussions surrounding the concept of corporations in the western world. The idea that corporations are somehow justified in seeking profits without any regard to anything else is one of the worst and most destructive attitudes of our time -- and is responsible for all sorts of economic injustice. I don't want to get too political here, though. Suffice is to say, I think this practice is wrong.

If you don't agree with me on any of that, and think that businesses should be allowed to do whatever they want, surely at least you would agree that as a customer I have the right to take issue with any practice I want? I don't get the double standard that a nameless faceless corporation should be able to take whatever stances it wants, but that individuals dare not take whatever stances *they* want. Just doesn't make sense to me.

.
Secondly, the drop off at the cable company locally isn't a valid comparison. By definition, those companies have local cable franchises and and therefore those companies have local offices, Dish does not have local offices across the country. Third party retailers are just that, third parties, not Dish. Even aside from that, you still pay the transport costs (gas and wear and tear on your car) to get the equipment to your cable company. So while the costs might be cheaper, you're still bearing the cost of returning the equipment.

It's interesting that when you call the national Dish number and agree to purchase their service, they can give you a time for installation immediately and the local installer shows up with the equipment, but when you call to cancel the local installer doesn't count as a branch office you can return your equipment to. It seems as though the local installer essentially acts as a branch office when it's convenient for the company, but not when it'd help the consumer out.

Anyhow, I don't want to harp on this too much. There are more important things in life to worry about. It's a small issue in the grand scheme of things. I just hate it when these big companies take advantage of people because they know the average person is too busy to sue or lobby for better consumer protection laws or whatever. People just take it, because it's not worth the hassle, and I understand that, it probably wouldn't be worth the hassle for me either, and unfortunately that's what these companies count on. It's irritating.

 

[ZoomVT]

The whole notion of returning to a local installer is ludicrous. The majority of the installers are third parties that simply have contracts with Dish related to the installing of equipment and service calls. And the process isn't just verifying that the proper equipment is returned, Dish has to make sure it has not been damaged in any way (opening the unit up for inspection). And oftentimes the units are reburbished, recertified for use and put back into the distribution chain. Are people expecting the local dealers to take care of all that? I think what people want is to drop off the equipment and then leave up to the local dealers and Dish to deal with actually shipping it where it has to go. Again, that's just seeking to avoid the cost of returning the equipment by foisting it on someone else.

Actually, the whole notion of it being impossible is ludicrous. I have already mentioned very simple ways how this could be done.
Part of my business is to provide consulting services to streamline operations and logistics to large merchants.

Yes, I am expecting local dealers to take care of a lot of that. If they do then there is no (or little) need to ship equipment back and forth as each installer could be self sufficient, saving the company money. They also wouldnt have to pay someone to do it at the home office, thus saving more money. This is not perfect and I dont have all the answers, but to say it is ludicrous or impossible is just ignorant. Why would the installers do it? Because if they want to keep dish business they will have to.

I dont care for the shipping fee. It doesnt affect me and it wont when i have to return it. I have known it all along. But it doesnt mean is the right way to do it, and it cannot be improved for the customer and the company's sake.

 

[bebop]

There are already reported problems with Dish "losing" returned receivers and people having to provide a tracking number for proof of delivery. How much worse would it get if receivers were shipped back in batches or simply included with "the rest of the shipping items" that you say the local dealer is already sending to Dish?

And if the local dealers aren't the ones inspecting the boxes then what's to protect consumers from boxes that are damaged while in the dealer's possession (or vice versa, what's to protect Dish from consumer claims that any damage must have occurred after the receiver was dropped off)?

Involving a third party intermediary doesn't simplify the issue, it just adds complexity and more opportunity for something to go wrong.

And yes, I suspect Dish is able to provide a $15 label because of the volume of shipments their company makes. The company I work for deals with FedEx a lot and our corporate rate is MUCH MUCH cheaper than what would be quoted to an individual with similar shipping needs who walked into a local FedEx Kinkos location.

good points, thanks.

 

[bebop]

It's interesting that when you call the national Dish number and agree to purchase their service, they can give you a time for installation immediately and the local installer shows up with the equipment, but when you call to cancel the local installer doesn't count as a branch office you can return your equipment to. It seems as though the local installer essentially acts as a branch office when it's convenient for the company, but not when it'd help the consumer out.

...People just take it, because it's not worth the hassle, and I understand that, it probably wouldn't be worth the hassle for me either, and unfortunately that's what these companies count on. It's irritating.

Indeed!

 

[sparc]

Does nobody read any agreements before you sign them. From the sound of all this complaining, i think not. It states right in the afreement you sign to get service that you will be charged a fee to return equipment. You can always buy it and then not have to pay to return it. You have options.

this return fee is a newer policy where most Dish customers may not be aware of the changes. There were a bunch of complaints about this policy at the time that Dish came up with this scheme as well.

Personally i think it's a bad policy as it's basically a cancellation fee disguised under a shipping fee on equipment that Dish owns. It's probably a year old debate on this forum. Dish knows full well that a lot of people are unhappy with this scheme. IMO, dish shouldn't charge the fee so they can make the cancellation process as positive as possible with customers possibly returning again down the road....

 

[tom231]

It comes down to a simple concept. They have lost you as a customer anyways. Charging you to ship back (or you having to ship back at your own expense) the leased equipment is a way to make money. Since you have already gone, you being upset and potentially cancelling service does not apply. Human nature is to downplay bad experiences over time... In a couple years after your DIRECTV contract time has expired you probably will not really care that you spent $15 to send back the receivers.

That's not always true. I got screwed on a computer from a large electronics store back in 2001, and I have not stepped foot in that store since. To this day, I don't even consider them when I make an electronics purchase. And I used to shop there all the time.

 

[mike123abc]

That's not always true. I got screwed on a computer from a large electronics store back in 2001, and I have not stepped foot in that store since. To this day, I don't even consider them when I make an electronics purchase. And I used to shop there all the time.

But, if you were considering Dish again you would probably just factor $15 into the overall cost of the subscription when making comparisons. It is $15 not hundreds of dollars a computer would cost.

 

[Bobby]

or $30 if you have 2 receivers, or $45 if you have 3 and on and on....

 

[mike123abc]

or $30 if you have 2 receivers, or $45 if you have 3 and on and on....

But you can also go to an UPS store and have them weighed and ship them back for less.