loss of even TP on 110 w/ DP34 on legacy system

[STDog]

So I seam to have lost the even numbered transponders on 110, but only on my legacy system.

SuperDish looking at 119, 110, and 105. DP Twin, to a DP34 switch.
Each output goes to a separate ground block. One output gos to a legacy adapter and a 4900. a 501 and a 301 are on two other outputs, one is capped at the ground block (ran all 4 wires so I didn't have trouble later, if I add a 4th tuner/receiver).

Only the 4900 is having trouble, and only the even TPs on 110. All others are fine on it (119, 105 ad the odd TPS on 110).

from the DP34:
out1 - 4900
out2 - 301
out3 - 501
out4 - open.

out1 and 2 are a dual RG6 coax to the ground blocks, as are out3 and 4.
Swapped the 4900 to out4 and no change. Will try putting the 301 at the end of the 4900's cable (will it work through the DP adapter?) but it's a pain to get the 301 out.



I cannot come up with a reason to loose one polarity, on one satellite, on one receiver.
Any thoughts? I don't have easy access to spare parts, to debug this much more.

Could it be the legacy adapter? Do 119 and 110 use the same frequencies when they stack both polarities for DPro, or are 119 and 110 using different frequencies out of the DPTwin/DP34?

Can I run a cable from the DPTwin output to the adapter and see just one sat? (not sure what combos work and which don't).


-Thomas (wishing I still had my 2 dual LNBFs and the right switch now that I don't need 105 for locals)

 

[STDog]

Well, did some more testing.

Looks to be the adapter. If it's in like with the 301, I see a SW64, but still don't get even TPs on 110. Put the 301 where the 4900 sits, and without the adapter if woks fine, with the adapter, no even TP on 110.



Don't know how the adapter could cause this issue, but it does. I guess there is more to it than I though. Noticed my dish500 still has LNBFs on it. Need to climb up and see if it's a quad or 2 duals (was there a single unit that acted like 2 duals, ie, no built-in switch?).


If it's a quad I'll hook one output up to the 4900. If it's duals, I'll look for a SW21, since that should be cheap. The adapter isn't cheap, and I don't understand why it didn't last longer.

 

[STDog]

Well, my post didn't go through.

Put the 301 in place of the 4900. Sees a SW64 and saws it's OK, but still no even TPs on 110.
Changed the cable from the adapter to the receiver and same symptoms
Remove the adapter and the 301 works from that location.
Mover the 301 back and tried the adapter there, still no 110 even TPs

Looks like it the adapter. Anyone know what the normal failure modes on the adapters is?


I hope the Dish 500 on the roof (before the Super Dish) has a quad. I think it is, since I member having a SW42 with the 2 duals(had to replace the switch once), and when I moved to 3 receivers they took out the switch. They must of changed the LNBFs to a quad, but it was some time ago.

Else I'll need to find a SW21 cheap. I don't need 105 right now anyway, since the locals were moved to 110 since the SuperDish was installed.

 

[KE4EST]

I guess your talking about the Dish Pro plus adapter and from my experiance they have a high fail rate.

 

[KE4EST]

Oh BTW Welcome to SatelliteGuys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[STDog]

I guess your talking about the Dish Pro plus adapter

It's just a DishPro adapter, like this

I've had it in the system for over a year (right after locals were offered in my area, the Columbus-Starkville, MS DMA).


Since I know longer need 105* for anything, and that receiver is mainly used for channels on 119*, I can either continue using it as is (without the even TPs on 110*), replace the adapter, or get the legacy setup going again for just it. Not sure how long the adapter will last, before it loses the even TPs on 119*, and the $30+ for the adapter seams a bit high for a failure prone device.

The 500 and legacy LBNFs are still setup, but I think I need a switch. I though It was a quad, but the check switch with it hooked up didn't show a switch, just reception of 119*. I remember haveing 2 duals and a switch (I thouht a sw42), then when I added a 3rd receiver, that was changed to a Quad.

I climbed up and glanced at it, and it looks like a single unit. I also remember some problems during the addition of the 3rd receiver, since the gut showed up with a DPQuad, not legacy, and he didn't have a DP adapter either, and had to come back once he got the right hardware.

Maybe the switch in the quad is dead? I'll check the other outputs before I but any parts.

 

[STDog]

from my experiance they have a high fail rate.

Can I ask about you experience? Have you worked with a lot of them?

What types of failures have you seen? Ever seen a loss of one polarity on one sat, but not the others?

 

[SHEEPareBAD]

did you put he ground block after the switch? i've never seen that done and never thought about doing it that way. ...... wait a sec, you'd have to strech the messenger wire around the switch to the ground blocks. it makes so muc more sence to ground before the sw. unless you ive in a state where nec codes arent as crazy. here in MN, grounding is more important than los. and our sources are diminishing..

 

[STDog]

did you put he ground block after the switch? i've never seen that done and never thought about doing it that way. ..

Didn't quite follow all that but:

LNBF(x3) -> DP34 -> ground block (x4) -> DP adapter -> receiver

 

[RandallA]

Didn't quite follow all that but:

LNBF(x3) -> DP34 -> ground block (x4) -> DP adapter -> receiver

Ground block should always come before the switches. It should be LNB => ground block => DP34 => DP adapter => receiver. Not that it matters now that the DP adapter is bad but that's the way it should be done.

ke4est is an installer, so he has a lot of experience dealing with Dish Network. Yes, the DP adapters have a high fail rate.

 

[STDog]

Ground block should always come before the switches. It should be LNB => ground block => DP34 => DP adapter => receiver. Not that it matters now that the DP adapter is bad but that's the way it should be done.

Hmm. The first ground block was installed with the original single LNB, 7+ yeas ago. Lef in teh sam place for the Dish 500 upgrade(only one receiver then too), but I honestly don't remember where I put the switch in relation to them.

Some "installers" came by later and cleaned up the cables for me later (I didn't have the clamps). That was when it was a free dish 500 upgrade if you agreed to 1 (or 2) year(s) of service, right after it was released.

I never did anything with the ground blocks though. who ever did the "install" did the work.

I know I had ground blocks for 4 coax lines when the SuperDish installer got here, and had 3 receivers running. He disconnected the old lines, but left the dish and the coax to the roof (I asked him too, and he didn't want to climb up there) I think he do a Dual LNB and a Single LNB with him to leave the quad.

Ground pole mounted the SuperDish, with the switch on the pole. Ran the 4 lines for the switch to the old ground blocks.

You're saying he should have ran the 3 lines to the ground blocks, the the switch, and the out put from there to the receivers?

Damn, he was the most knowledgeable "installer" that ever visited my house (early SuperDish days, whe only experienced guys did them) The previous guys didn't know a legacy quad for a Pro, or a dual LNB from a Twin. AOh, and the 4 guys that came without an extension ladder on there truck to install my Dish500 on the roof. They only had a 6ft step ladder.

Yes, the DP adapters have a high fail rate.

So the failure I've seen is a common failure?

Everyone keeps saying the break a lot, but not what the symptoms are when the break. Nor can anyone explain how I only loose even TPs on one satellite.

So, would I be better served getting the legacy Dish 500 working for the 4900?

I'm still reasonably sure I should have a Quad up there, but I only saw 119(and no switch) when I hooked it up. Is it likely that I can get 110 for one of the other outputs? (ie, when the switch fails does it usually get stuck with a 119 and a 110 feed available?)

Or should I look for a pair of single LNBs and a SW21?
I have a spare dual LNB, maybe just one single and a twin?
Or look for a twin/quad?


Which configuration is most likely to last the longest?

Be cheaper over the next 4-5 years (probably all the 4900 has left in it).