The difference is that PBS pays for their content. Locast does NOT, and that's the ENTIRE case for the providers right there, they want to be paid.
Locast News (Additions, changes, etc)
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Of course the networks WANT to be paid, but the case is about SHOULD they be paid...
What Bobby said is the gotcha. Since they are re-investing the donations in order to expand they are not profiting overall, but the ruling indicates that the applicable law (statute) does not specifically allow for expanding the service. It only allows for using donations to cover the existing service.It is little different than PBS having their monthly, or is it every other weekly, donation programming. I seriously doubt that Locast is profiting at all. It does cost a bit to keep the lights on. Perhaps this ruling will change the dunning from every 15 minutes to something like weekly. While it is easy to say that the expenses are x dollars and the intake is higher than x dollars, Locast is an expanding service and as it expands it costs many dollars more than what it costs for existing service.
Which is a lot like a catch-22. How do you have an existing service without expanding from zero?
One way would be for the local area to gather funds for expansion into that area. They have actually done that in one location, I think.
I would expect Locast to stop interrupting programming and instead show a please donate commercial each time you change the channel.
I think that would satisfy the judge. As they would not keep on interrupting the programming asking for money.
Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys
I think that would satisfy the judge. As they would not keep on interrupting the programming asking for money.
Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys
No, this isn't a shady copyright violation at all. 
"The court found that Locast’s policy of expanding into new markets runs contrary to the aim of a non-profit, where cash should be used to cover running costs only. Judge Louis Stanton said that the cash raised from Locast’s $5-per-month (don’t call it a) subscription was being used to bankroll further expansion and earned 'far more money from user charges than was necessary.'
It didn’t help, that when some TV providers have entered into carriage disputes, Locast has been cited as a way of still accessing that content. As The Wall Street Journal wrote back in 2019, DirecTV and Dish customers were directed to access Locast, although Dish and AT&T both said that this was only because it felt that it was obliged to offer the choice to its users."
www.engadget.com
"The court found that Locast’s policy of expanding into new markets runs contrary to the aim of a non-profit, where cash should be used to cover running costs only. Judge Louis Stanton said that the cash raised from Locast’s $5-per-month (don’t call it a) subscription was being used to bankroll further expansion and earned 'far more money from user charges than was necessary.'
It didn’t help, that when some TV providers have entered into carriage disputes, Locast has been cited as a way of still accessing that content. As The Wall Street Journal wrote back in 2019, DirecTV and Dish customers were directed to access Locast, although Dish and AT&T both said that this was only because it felt that it was obliged to offer the choice to its users."
Locast loses legal protections that keep its local TV streaming service alive
Locast's legal protections have been knocked down, opening the door to further lawsuits.
www.engadget.com
That, and cease referring to the $5 fee as a "donation." Can you imagine how annoying it is to see one of those "donate" spots come up while the station is showing something important - like the President speaking on the now-ended conflict or emergency news on that fast-approaching tropical storm? And that's just the recent stuff.
I used Locast for a brief time while KIRO/7 (Seattle) was in a retrans blackout on dish. I did not "donate" (I didn't see a reason to at the time - it was a retrans blackout, which should have been temporary). But, those "donation" spots always showed up without fail when stuff got interesting. God help you if a Seahawks game was on and the locals were facing 3rd and Goal on the 'One'.
As it is, isn't Locast violating some rule that prohibits interrupting the station's feed for spots of any kind (save for a national EAS test or something of far more importance)? Just a thought.
I wonder where Locast goes from here? I am sure they will appeal or make some changes. A business making $4 mil is not going to go without a fight.
My thought is that Locast will work out something to satisfy all parties in the long run. I just don't see Locast going away quickly. They cover too many markets. At least the judge did not require to shut down Locast.
My thought is that Locast will work out something to satisfy all parties in the long run. I just don't see Locast going away quickly. They cover too many markets. At least the judge did not require to shut down Locast.
You nailed it. From Locast e-mail:
Locast is suspending immediately all programming interruptions to request donations.Edit: Sorry, KaptainRandom beat me by a minute.
I just got this seems they liked my idea. Lol.
Locast Nation
As you probably know, the federal district court in the Southern District of New York issued a ruling in the case brought against Locast by the big media companies. The court concluded that by interrupting programming to ask users for donations, and by suspending those interruptions based on whether a user makes contributions, Locast actually was charging a fee, not merely seeking a voluntary contribution. The court then concluded that revenues Locast collects in this manner exceed the cost of operating the service because funds are used to add new markets, rendering Locast ineligible to use the copyright exemption for non-profits (17 U.S.C. 111(a)(5)).
Although we disagree with this interpretation and are exploring our legal options to contest it, out of respect for the court's order,
Locast is suspending immediately all programming interruptions to request donations.
This means that anyone located in a market we serve who signs up for Locast will get the service without interruption, regardless of whether or not they donate.
Of course, it is up to you whether or not to contribute to Locast. But if you currently contribute, we humbly request that you continue to do so. And if you don't contribute, we hope that you will do so if you can afford it.
Thank you.
Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys
Locast Nation
As you probably know, the federal district court in the Southern District of New York issued a ruling in the case brought against Locast by the big media companies. The court concluded that by interrupting programming to ask users for donations, and by suspending those interruptions based on whether a user makes contributions, Locast actually was charging a fee, not merely seeking a voluntary contribution. The court then concluded that revenues Locast collects in this manner exceed the cost of operating the service because funds are used to add new markets, rendering Locast ineligible to use the copyright exemption for non-profits (17 U.S.C. 111(a)(5)).
Although we disagree with this interpretation and are exploring our legal options to contest it, out of respect for the court's order,
Locast is suspending immediately all programming interruptions to request donations.
This means that anyone located in a market we serve who signs up for Locast will get the service without interruption, regardless of whether or not they donate.
Of course, it is up to you whether or not to contribute to Locast. But if you currently contribute, we humbly request that you continue to do so. And if you don't contribute, we hope that you will do so if you can afford it.
Thank you.
Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys
When I logged in this morning, it shows the following:
We are suspending operations, effective immediately.
As a non-profit, Locast was designed from the very beginning to operate in accordance with the strict letter of the law, but in response to the court’s recent rulings, with which we respectfully disagree, we are hereby suspending operations, effective immediately.
We are suspending operations, effective immediately.
As a non-profit, Locast was designed from the very beginning to operate in accordance with the strict letter of the law, but in response to the court’s recent rulings, with which we respectfully disagree, we are hereby suspending operations, effective immediately.
Yep, didn't think it would happen this fast, but the writing was on the wall since yesterday. Guess they decided to cut their loses and give up immediately. Perhaps they'll retool in some way, and be back.
Even with the shutdown, Scott's guess is still correct. They no longer interrupt the stream with requests for money. He's always right.
Puffer is part of a Stanford University research study and streams six network stations from the San Francisco Bay area. The service is limited to 500 simultaneous connections and can be interrupted and/or suspended at any time. As I type this post in fact, it appears Puffer is currently down or possibly oversubscribed...
As of this post, Puffer is back up...
