Live Retailer Chat Report! (July 8,2004)

[AppliedAggression]

If you thought the 508 had a fast guide, then you wouldn't want to see the guide on a 721/921. It's amazingly faster, I'd even go as far to say that it's much much faster than the 301's guide, and the 301's was already fast compared to the 508.

 

[mike123abc]

It seems as though the entire company is sleeping or is in hibernation mode, and it really does not make any sense whatsoever.

There are several things going on that just are not being commented on by Dish... Makes me wonder if they are waiting on DIRECTV.

Dish has a satellite for 105 going up at the end of next month, 2 more satellites scheduled for next year, and one for early 2006. We know one satellite is going to 105 next month, Echostar 10 is going to 110 with 45 spot beams, but Dish has been very quite with the other 2 satellites. All I have seen is that they have leased them. They also have 2-3 KU-DBS satellite agreements in place if the FCC ever opens up more DBS slots.

Now just for speculation on my part:

My current theory is that they are working like crazy to fix the DPP44 switch, that it is what is holding up all plans at this time. I think that they want to use the new 105 for LIL, but then they will have room on it for 20-30 HDTV channels if they wanted, but they cannot do this without the DPP44. I think that they are going to see what DIRECTV is planning in HD then try to out do them with the extra capacity they will have on 105. Of course without DPP44 they cannot do a thing.

I bet they are also watching the Spaceway satellites and are starting to hedge on them. That is where the extra KU-FSS satellites are coming into play... With the new E10 going up in the middle of next year with 45+ spot beams on it, they will be able to move everyone off of 121/105/Wings. They will have a lot of empty capacity all the sudden. With the effective 3 empty Ku-FSS (105 and 121 only half capacity each plus the two newly leased ones) plus possibly up to 3 more Ku-DBS satellites, they could have 6 satellites worth of capacity sitting around...That would be enough capacity for the top 25-30 markets maybe a few more without even working hard on compression or even use spot beams. If they went to even simple spot beam satellites like East/West or 4-6 regional beams they could probably get to the top 75-100 markets.

I think the spaceway satellites have them worried so they are working on a solution now without having to invest in a new unproven technology like DIRECTV is doing. I do not see DIRECTV beginning to offer LIL HDTV using spaceway until the end of next year at the earliest, too many variables still to be worked out.

Dish is up to something, and they are lining up a ton of capacity for it... what it is going to be they are doing a good job of keeping it quite for now unlike the past multi year announcements/delays.

 

[Stargazer]

Yes, the 721 EPG is a bit faster than the 501/508/510 receivers. When I go back to the 510 I think of how much slower it is.

 

[jerryez]

Lets all send Jim an email letting him know that the Dish PVR is not better than the TiVO. Then he cannot say from what he hears the Dish PVR is better. Scott do you have his email address.

 

[Neutron]

I would take the DTivo over ANY of the DISH's PVRs. I like my Season Passes. I don't care if I have picture in guide.

 

[AppliedAggression]

I on the other hand would take the 721 ANY day over a slow, pain-in-the-butt Tivo

 

[mikew]

It would have been nice to have that NBR for my 721. But, my current commitment will be up by then, and I'll just have to settle for Season Passes with DirecTivo, I guess. Poor me.

Bob...errr....Gary...How many of these posts do we get to see before your commitment is up?


I too prefer the 721 over the D* Tivo. Waiting for the guide to display as you scan through the guide doesn't work for me. I'd love to have NBR, but it only takes me about ten minutes a week to setup my timers for the following week. To each their own!

 

[Stargazer]

Looks like both products have an improvement that need to be made and eventually there will be a DVR that will be able to do all the things well that we all want them to do, it is just a matter of when, not if.

 

[Unthinkable]

Why does E* even bother to announce something with a date when they never make it? IMHO they do this to just try to keep their customers, always dangling that carrot out in front of them, just out of reach, so they don't switch to another provider because see what we have coming. I think E* should just keep their mouths shut until they are actually shipping something.

Why do major game, dvd, or music publishers have release dates that are often pushed back a few times before they go gold? Its only an estimation at the time which is always subject to change / be pushed back if other more pressing needs or delays crop up prior to this. How long have you been a customer with Dish? Your profile says you have DirecTV. Banking on Dish release dates mentioned in various chats to be 100% spot on is simply asking to be setup for disappointment based on past history. I think they are genuinely doing their best to give an educated estimation as to how long it will take without always getting a more accurate time frame from the software engineers. Charlie often makes a point of referencing this in his Charlie Chats. You have one group thinking it will take x amount of time to accomplish and another one having more and more things thrown on their plate to do potentially delaying things further. Best thing for you to do if you genuinely are concerned about this from a Dish Network customer point of view imo, is to make a mental note every time you hear a date from Dish that its just an educated guess. No more, no less. That way your expectations aren't shattered all to hell everytime something like this happens. If Dish did keep a tighter command on releasing information like this, people would be complaining to no end just the same that this company is no longer listening to their loyal paying customers. Can't have it both ways. If your post was just a typical Boba "Bash Dish Network for the sake of nothing else to do" job, then kindly disregard what I've written above as it by no means would be of any interest to you.

 

[GaryPen]

Bob...errr....Gary...How many of these posts do we get to see before your commitment is up?

What's the friggin difference to you?

I too prefer the 721 over the D* Tivo. Waiting for the guide to display as you scan through the guide doesn't work for me. I'd love to have NBR, but it only takes me about ten minutes a week to setup my timers for the following week. To each their own!

Yes. To each his own. When the time comes, I too might opt for speed over functionality, and stay with the 721. The point I was making is that there is an alternative for those who choose functionality.

 

[rad]

Why do major game, dvd, or music publishers have release dates that are often pushed back a few times before they go gold? Its only an estimation at the time which is always subject to change / be pushed back if other more pressing needs or delays crop up prior to this. How long have you been a customer with Dish? Your profile says you have DirecTV. Banking on Dish release dates mentioned in various chats to be 100% spot on is simply asking to be setup for disappointment based on past history. I think they are genuinely doing their best to give an educated estimation as to how long it will take without always getting a more accurate time frame from the software engineers. Charlie often makes a point of referencing this in his Charlie Chats. You have one group thinking it will take x amount of time to accomplish and another one having more and more things thrown on their plate to do potentially delaying things further. Best thing for you to do if you genuinely are concerned about this from a Dish Network customer point of view imo, is to make a mental note every time you hear a date from Dish that its just an educated guess. No more, no less. That way your expectations aren't shattered all to hell everytime something like this happens. If Dish did keep a tighter command on releasing information like this, people would be complaining to no end just the same that this company is no longer listening to their loyal paying customers. Can't have it both ways. If your post was just a typical Boba "Bash Dish Network for the sake of nothing else to do" job, then kindly disregard what I've written above as it by no means would be of any interest to you.

I WAS a Dish customer, so I did live through the constant missed dates in the past.

My point was that E* ALWAYS misses their dates but are they publishing unrealistic dates, that they know they can't make internally, for the sole purpose of keeping customers from jumping ship. I know I've seen some post from E* PVR owners that have said they were thinking about jumping to D* and Tivo but since NBR was coming this summer/fall they'd wait. But now, except for the 522, E* is saying early 2005 for NBR. If E* had said no date, or not even mentioned it at all until ready to ship, they might have lost some customers.

Now is making this observation in my original post 'bashing' E*, I didn't think so, but I guess some E* customers are just overly defensive of Charlie and his gang.

 

[hancox]

Bob...errr....Gary...How many of these posts do we get to see before your commitment is up?

I'm still laughing from this one...

What's the friggen difference to you?

Sorry to chime in here, but it's getting ooooooooooold. I too take 811 "news" with a grain of salt (from experience), but I think the Bob flag for you might stick. Look on the bright side, it's better than "People are idiots!"

 

[jlhugh]

We as humans can't live just knowing that it is coming. We are all curious creatures and need to know when it will be ready. Them telling us something is coming is not good enough. We need to know when that certain thing will be here. That is why E* gives out dates to when something is coming out. We all know by now that the dates is normally wrong, but it gives us something to look at and hope that it just might be there by that date.

 

[jeffwtux]

ClubDish Free-For-All LOOPHOLE!!!

It looks like in Charlie's attempt to force all new customers to DHA(still working on that acronym) he has left a loophole in ClubDish Free-For-All. They mentioned that Free-For-All commissions would be reduced to $250, but they didn't mention anything about CLUBdish free-for-all commissions which were ALREADY $250, but compensated with an additional $50 equipment reimbursement(kind a stupid joke to me, but anyways). Well, I just confirmed that the ClubDish Free-for-All commission is remaining at $250 and the reimbursement on 1 receiver systems will remain at $50 and $100 for 2 receiver systems. Therefore, Free-For-All can continue with the same commission levels, and a $60 referral bonus to boot, making ClubDish Free-for-All $110 more in incentives than Free-For-All. I'm happy.
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know Free-For-All draws the worst customers, but at least they have a montly incentive to remain as a customer unlike DHA where even the best customer has no incentive to stay on if bribed by cable. NONE.

 

[GaryPen]

I'm still laughing from this one...

You must have thought Gilligan's Island was a hoot.

 

[GaryPen]

Now is making this observation in my original post 'bashing' E*, I didn't think so, but I guess some E* customers are just overly defensive of Charlie and his gang.

Gosh! Ya think?

 

[mattb]

The Free Dish Promotion is going away on August 1st..

Does that mean if after Aug 1st if I decide to get say locals (in my area which require a SD, Ill have to fork over 200$? )

With all the changes, its hard to keep track of "what Dish is doing" so sorry if I am misunderstanding what the "free dish promo" is. Seems like every week they head in a different direction yet nothing positive (aka channel additions)

 

[AndyMon]

You must have thought Gilligan's Island was a hoot.

Hey, I still listen to the Gilligan's Island theme song! Ahh, the good old days.......sittin' around the family tv and hootin' it up watchin' Gilligan's Island. Yep, those were the days.
You got a problem with the show???

 

[Unthinkable]

I WAS a Dish customer, so I did live through the constant missed dates in the past.

My point was that E* ALWAYS misses their dates but are they publishing unrealistic dates, that they know they can't make internally, for the sole purpose of keeping customers from jumping ship. I know I've seen some post from E* PVR owners that have said they were thinking about jumping to D* and Tivo but since NBR was coming this summer/fall they'd wait. But now, except for the 522, E* is saying early 2005 for NBR. If E* had said no date, or not even mentioned it at all until ready to ship, they might have lost some customers.

Now is making this observation in my original post 'bashing' E*, I didn't think so, but I guess some E* customers are just overly defensive of Charlie and his gang.

No, thats simply not the case. Allow me to refresh your memory with what you posted last year indicating you wanted firm dates. Now you don't want them to communicate at all and yet still want to continue ripping them just the same! Its a damned if you do/damned if you dont can't-win situation for any company to be in if the customer has a mindset that everything they do is wrong. Hence, the "you can't have it both ways" part of my response above. I'm not overprotective of Charlie as I post about bugs, problems, annoyances, and issues all the time with Dish Network. Its not a perfect company, but what company really is right now? Problem is, if regular posters are generally satisfied with Dish Networks current level of service despite the occasional hiccups every now and then, they often are wrongly characterized by a select few as the Dish Pom Pom/Charlie Lover's of the world though. I know this much. If I spent my time posting in an ATT/Comcast Cable forum chiming in everytime someone wrote they were getting fed up with Cable, posters there would start to get a wee bit suspicious why I still had a vested interest in their gripes when I haven't had service from them in years. Kinda looks like said poster has an ulterior motive if they only have negative things to contribute don't you think? Anyways, this was your thread last year:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=17805&highlight=tivo+dish

Post #16
"Re: Disgusted with People's attitudes"

Enforcer, I was a DirecTV customer for a long time but switched to Dish since at the time they acted like a company that cared about their customers. Since then I've changed my mind and now look upon Dish as just another big corporation that make it look like all they care about is getting the most $'s from their clients.

Would I like ESPN-HD, yep. Do I want HDNet and HDMovies, yep. Can I get these on Dish, nope! Over the past few months Charlie and company keep dangling the carrot out in front of his customers saying look at what we're going to be offering. OK, I know Dish hasn't said that they're going to offer ESPN-HD, but Dish has said, many time, that they will be the HD leader, but for the past couple of months they haven't been and who knows for sure when they will be again. On one Chat show they say HD will be on 105, next show, nope it's on 121. Here, look at this 921 and all the awards it can get, but does anyone have one, nope, not even Charlie has a 921.

Let's stray from HD for the moment and go into some of the other things that are causing me to consider switching back. The Dish 6000 that I purchased that was to get Open TV. Oh wait, we under designed it and even though you said we'd upgrade it we changed our mind.

How about Dish making changes on their end that cause their Dish 6000 receivers to have a very annoyming stutter on channels from the 119 slot, which took Dish over 5 days to correct.

How about the quality of the software in the PVR systems and the feature set offered. Hey, it wasn't TVIO but then again folks weren't being charged a per month fee. But now Charlie is comparing his PVR's to TIVO and saying he should be able to charge a monthly fee also. By doing so he's open up Dish to all these rants and they deserve it. I know folks with TIVO's and Replay boxes and they have nowhere the number of problems that Dish has and a ton more features then Dish provides.

So for me, it's not just the HD issue, it's looking at all the things that have been happening at Dish over the past few months and making me wonder if I want to continue to give them my hard earned cash, which is over $1,200 per year. For that kind of money I expect a better product then what Dish is currently offering. So as they say, "Vote with your pocket book" and if on the 9/8 HD center Charlie Chat if they don't announce pricing and FIRM dates (not something like coming in the fall) I'll be firing up the old browser and starting to find a good deal on DirecTV.

Didn't you also participate in a Tivo vs. Dish PVR thread over there not long ago where you were making some really sensational over-generalizations that stood out where things were turning into yet another ugly Dish bashing festival? I think that was you, but I could be wrong. I just wonder sometimes is all.

 

[GaryPen]

Hey, I still listen to the Gilligan's Island theme song! Ahh, the good old days.......sittin' around the family tv and hootin' it up watchin' Gilligan's Island. Yep, those were the days.
You got a problem with the show???

Umm. No. It's brilliant. Cleverly written. Witty. A comment on the socio-political climate of the mid-sixties. Well acted too. Yup. It's right up there with The Beverly Hillbillies, Petticoat Junction, Green Acres, and the more modern and sophisticated (if that's even possible) Three's Company.