Let's have some educated speculation on HD DNS

[waltinvt]

Facts:
1. Ok, now the Rainbow deal is approved.
2. East & West HD DNS have apparently been in test mode on 129 & 61.5 for a while.
3. A lot of channel shuffeling been going on.

Speculation:
1. Would having the E & W HD DNS in test mode likely mean that Dish has completed negoiations with the individule networks ?

2. Is it likely that qualification will be the same for all 4 net?

We know that the previous / current qualification for CBS HD had been O&O and / or white area but I believe it was based more on the contract between Dish & CBS than by SHVERA law.

3. Although "D" has basically followed a strict (conservative) interpertation of SHVERA (O&O and waivers), I believe "E" decided quite a while ago that it wasn't worth bothering with under those constraints, so I'm wondering if they've come up with something better or do they expect there may be a statement soon from the FCC on the digital white area definations ?

4. Is it a coincidence that the FCC finially rules on the Rainbow deal the week before scheduled commitee votes on digital transition legislation ?

 

[davidwiz]

Facts:

2. East & West HD DNS have apparently been in test mode on 129 & 61.5 for a while.

How do you know this, what channels do they test these on (yes I know I wouldnt receive them but was curious of channel #'s)?

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

You have to be grandfathered in by December of last year. As only CBS-HD was up then, that is all you could expect.

You clearly must be in White Area or in an area under O&O control to qualify - providing the Networks even allow that.

Remember E* can uplink virtually anything they want encrypted as "technically" no one can receive it to prove they are violating any copyright violation. It's rather hard to prove damages in a court of law if "no one" can receive it.

Considering E* agreements with the NY and LA stations for CONUS coverage of SD, I hardly think the networks would balk at them using it during a testing phase either.

Also remember thats how you get all the "junk" channel on cable and satellite. They are put in the package during the negotiations.

As such:

NBC would probably use HD for leverage to get UHD and other channels on E* - though with NBC's lack of Sports and ratings - they are not in a very good position at the curent time - however, I would not expect that to be a factor.

ABC would probably want ESPN2 and other channels. It also might have something to do with E* adding the other ESPN SD channel last month. Timing is VERY interesting there and an agreement might already be in place.

FOX is a crap shot - they would probably want the forthcoming FOX HD Movie channels and National Geographic Channel on E* - but won't care on the other hand if they don't get it as they own D* and feel they will blow away Voom with their Movie Library.

CBS is already covered - so even though they could try to hold E* up for coverage of their new HD Channels as they did with D*, with the forthcoming Viacom split, this era is coming to an end in the negotiations.

 

[Sarang]

You have to be grandfathered in by December of last year. As only CBS-HD was up then, that is all you could expect.

You clearly must be in White Area or in an area under O&O control to qualify - providing the Networks even allow that.

Remember E* can uplink virtually anything they want encrypted as "technically" no one can receive it to prove they are violating any copyright violation. It's rather hard to prove damages in a court of law if "no one" can receive it.

Considering E* agreements with the NY and LA stations for CONUS coverage of SD, I hardly think the networks would balk at them using it during a testing phase either.

Also remember thats how you get all the "junk" channel on cable and satellite. They are put in the package during the negotiations.

As such:

NBC would probably use HD for leverage to get UHD and other channels on E* - though with NBC's lack of Sports and ratings - they are not in a very good position at the curent time - however, I would not expect that to be a factor.

ABC would probably want ESPN2 and other channels. It also might have something to do with E* adding the other ESPN SD channel last month. Timing is VERY interesting there and an agreement might already be in place.

FOX is a crap shot - they would probably want the forthcoming FOX HD Movie channels and National Geographic Channel on E* - but won't care on the other hand if they don't get it as they own D* and feel they will blow away Voom with their Movie Library.

CBS is already covered - so even though they could try to hold E* up for coverage of their new HD Channels as they did with D*, with the forthcoming Viacom split, this era is coming to an end in the negotiations.

Right now I question the importance of FOX HD since honestly I'm NOT impressed with the HD feed I get OTA. I don't know if it's the station or FOX's HD picture in general. I suspect it's FOX's picture in general since it gives the message "HDTV PRESENTED BY DIRECTV". The one thing I thnk FOX could hang over E*'s head is "National Geographic HD". Granted E* has Equator HD and Discovery HD it doesn't hurt to add another big name to the HD map. I'm concerned about getting Cinemax HD, Starz HD and TMC HD myself as well as the obvious stuff like UHD.
ABC is a big one I'd like to have since as of now I can't pick up that or the WB.

 

[M Sparks]

This has been covered elsewhere, but...

The recent shuffling left room at 110 (I think) for 2 more MPEG2 HD channels. Adding Universal HD and ESPN2 HD, along with the east/west network feeds, puts them ahead of DirecTV in HD, at least for a few months. (Through Christmas?) With the addition of the DISH 1000, they have a dish comperable to the DirecTV 3 LNB, but it would get 11 more HD channels than DirecTV.

With the other recent flurry of SD sports additions, this might be an attempt for DISH to "catchup" to DirecTV. DirecTV is promising more in the future, but DISH HAS more now. By adding these few channels, they eliminate most of the current arguments for going with DirecTV. Once the Spaceways are operational, they'll have a tougher battle. But it's easier to keep current customers than attract new ones. If they can gather enough this Christmas, they'll be in better shape for the 6-18 months DirecTV is going to be spanking them.

Look, I've had both DirecTV and DISH, and I was ready to wait this battle out. But I wound up buying a new HDTV ahead of schedule. I dropped the cash on a 942, fully aware that DirecTV has big plans for HD, because DISH had more to offer right now. If I fell for it that easy, think of how easy it will be for someone who doesn't know what's going on. If you're buying a new HDTV this Christmas, DISH will have more to offer. That's all most of the people in the stores will care about.

 

[mwgiii]

How do you know this, what channels do they test these on (yes I know I wouldnt receive them but was curious of channel #'s)?

Check the "Uplink" threads by goaliebob99 here & by JohnH @ DBSTalk

 

[Sarang]

This has been covered elsewhere, but...

The recent shuffling left room at 110 (I think) for 2 more MPEG2 HD channels. Adding Universal HD and ESPN2 HD, along with the east/west network feeds, puts them ahead of DirecTV in HD, at least for a few months. (Through Christmas?) With the addition of the DISH 1000, they have a dish comperable to the DirecTV 3 LNB, but it would get 11 more HD channels than DirecTV.

With the other recent flurry of SD sports additions, this might be an attempt for DISH to "catchup" to DirecTV. DirecTV is promising more in the future, but DISH HAS more now. By adding these few channels, they eliminate most of the current arguments for going with DirecTV. Once the Spaceways are operational, they'll have a tougher battle. But it's easier to keep current customers than attract new ones. If they can gather enough this Christmas, they'll be in better shape for the 6-18 months DirecTV is going to be spanking them.

Look, I've had both DirecTV and DISH, and I was ready to wait this battle out. But I wound up buying a new HDTV ahead of schedule. I dropped the cash on a 942, fully aware that DirecTV has big plans for HD, because DISH had more to offer right now. If I fell for it that easy, think of how easy it will be for someone who doesn't know what's going on. If you're buying a new HDTV this Christmas, DISH will have more to offer. That's all most of the people in the stores will care about.

Yeah but in the end will DirecTV still do the HD-Lite bit as well? Right now speaking of SD channels being added even though Dish already has Monsters HD I'd be willing to pay $5 extra a month for "The Horror Channel" by itself. The more the merrier for Horror channels I say.
Some people may also not want to have a 30" Dish to pick up all the channels. I think having the Dish 1000 and having a Dish 500 or new Dish similar to that setup with two new positions would be great and solve the problem of having one unwieldy dish around.

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

I cannot begin to stress to you HOW BAD UHD is.

It might get better over time, but it is REALLY BAD.

There are NO HD MOVIES. Their switcher cannot handle it. It looses sync when they go between BattleStar Gallactica and commercials as they switch from 5.1 to 2.0.

Of course, since 10/1 they have just left the entire feed in 5.1 - though they have no 5.1 movies and no BSG.

If you have certain 5.1 receivers, as the content is flagged 5.1, it will not do the standard 2.0 Dolby Surround so you are really hosed.

On top of that, there are about 10 movies a year that have been shown that anyone really cares about - and that is a very serious statement - no exaggeration. Look at a month of listings if you don't believe me.

The channel is really overrated.

If E* wastes these 2 channels on UHD and ESPN2 (so the few that care about HD Drag Races can see them) I will be highly disappointed - even though that is the way it will probably play out to keep up with the mediocore offerings of D*.

That's pretty bad....letting D* determine what crappy programming to put on your network.

I would much rather see CinemaxHD and other content even if it cost more.

I doubt they would raise the price of the HD Package for UHD and ESPN2.

I could even live with CinemaxHD and ESPN2 - but my gut tells me we will get StarzHD before CinemaxHD.

Great - another HD channel that claims HD and has very little - and the few they have contain many upconverts

 

[JH1949]

I cannot begin to stress to you HOW BAD UHD is.

I would much rather see CinemaxHD and other content even if it cost more.

I doubt they would raise the price of the HD Package for UHD and ESPN2.

I could even live with CinemaxHD and ESPN2 - but my gut tells me we will get StarzHD before CinemaxHD.
(

(1) UHD worked fine in 5.1 for me with my Voom receiver. Sorry to hear you are having problems.

(2) I used to pay for HBO and Cinemax until I realized that a lot of the movies repeated on the other channel with a 4 month lag. If you have some patience and are subscribed to HBO HD, then you should see the Cinemax movies in HD on HBO in a little while.

 

[goaliebob99]

Facts:

2. East & West HD DNS have apparently been in test mode on 129 & 61.5 for a while.

West HD DNS Has been testing at 129 (the big 4 ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX) but nothing has been tested on 61.5 yet.

NO HD DNS EAST yet!!!! as soon as that breaks You all will be the first to know.

 

[goaliebob99]

NBC would probably use HD for leverage to get UHD and other channels on E* - though with NBC's lack of Sports and ratings - they are not in a very good position at the curent time - however, I would not expect that to be a factor.

ABC would probably want ESPN2 and other channels. It also might have something to do with E* adding the other ESPN SD channel last month. Timing is VERY interesting there and an agreement might already be in place.

FOX is a crap shot - they would probably want the forthcoming FOX HD Movie channels and National Geographic Channel on E* - but won't care on the other hand if they don't get it as they own D* and feel they will blow away Voom with their Movie Library.

CBS is already covered - so even though they could try to hold E* up for coverage of their new HD Channels as they did with D*, with the forthcoming Viacom split, this era is coming to an end in the negotiations.

As far as NBC yea I can see that happening.. but remember that NBC has the Olympics and can use that as a bargining chip. (with the olympics on dish previously I dont expect it to be a big deal)

As far as ABC (I think there is allready an agreement there but it hasnt been publicly annouced.) the reason why im thinking that is because of the ESPN channels that have been added recently. I expect to see ESPN2 and ABC to pop up shortly.. with the other big 4's

As far as Fox.. If they did negotiate that way it would be for fox now and Fox HD Movie channels when MPG 4 appears.

And I agree about CBS (allready avable so we dont have to worry.)

 

[Sarang]

I cannot begin to stress to you HOW BAD UHD is.

It might get better over time, but it is REALLY BAD.

There are NO HD MOVIES. Their switcher cannot handle it. It looses sync when they go between BattleStar Gallactica and commercials as they switch from 5.1 to 2.0.

Of course, since 10/1 they have just left the entire feed in 5.1 - though they have no 5.1 movies and no BSG.

If you have certain 5.1 receivers, as the content is flagged 5.1, it will not do the standard 2.0 Dolby Surround so you are really hosed.

On top of that, there are about 10 movies a year that have been shown that anyone really cares about - and that is a very serious statement - no exaggeration. Look at a month of listings if you don't believe me.

The channel is really overrated.

If E* wastes these 2 channels on UHD and ESPN2 (so the few that care about HD Drag Races can see them) I will be highly disappointed - even though that is the way it will probably play out to keep up with the mediocore offerings of D*.

That's pretty bad....letting D* determine what crappy programming to put on your network.

I would much rather see CinemaxHD and other content even if it cost more.

I doubt they would raise the price of the HD Package for UHD and ESPN2.

I could even live with CinemaxHD and ESPN2 - but my gut tells me we will get StarzHD before CinemaxHD.

Great - another HD channel that claims HD and has very little - and the few they have contain many upconverts

I want the other three movie channels in HD but if push comes to shove I'll take TMC first and maybe Cinemax HD after that unless Starz is as serious as Showtime about showing some movies in OAR HD regardelss of the limited amount.
Speaking of TMC HD is that gonna be last to be added because I have a feeling it will be unfortunately.

 

[waltinvt]

West HD DNS Has been testing at 129 (the big 4 ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX) but nothing has been tested on 61.5 yet.

NO HD DNS EAST yet!!!! as soon as that breaks You all will be the first to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieEngineer
Source has confirmed that the 4 test channels on 129 (mp2t1, t2, t3, t4) are the HD versions of cbs-w,nbc-w,abc-w,fox-w.


To which I asked: "I wonder if there's any chance they'll go up on 61.5 (the east versions) ?"

To which Scott replied: "Yes they are waiting for the VOOM Bird approval before lighting them up.
Scott "

I guess I assumed from Scott's reply that they were already on 61.5 but hidden (testing). I thought someone else confirmed that but I may have drempt it

 

[BobMurdoch]

I'm guessing that they will try to get HD LIL in Mpeg2 up and running in at least New York and LA to try and counter D*'s announcement that Detroit is the first of many HD LIL (Mpeg4) cities.

The 4th quarter is the most important for most retailers due to the Christmas buyers and those who want to upgrade their TVs for the football playoffs/bowl games.

They need to do something in advance of that period as the new IPods and the XBox 360 will be stealing a lot fo the attention this holiday season.

E* has been on a roll with a lot of the channel adds the last few months. Look for them to build some momentum now that a pile of bandwidth just landed in their lap.....

 

[datwell]

I'm guessing that they will try to get HD LIL in Mpeg2 up and running in at least New York and LA to try and counter D*'s announcement that Detroit is the first of many HD LIL (Mpeg4) cities.

The 4th quarter is the most important for most retailers due to the Christmas buyers and those who want to upgrade their TVs for the football playoffs/bowl games.

They need to do something in advance of that period as the new IPods and the XBox 360 will be stealing a lot fo the attention this holiday season.

E* has been on a roll with a lot of the channel adds the last few months. Look for them to build some momentum now that a pile of bandwidth just landed in their lap.....

Bob: You have it partly correct - NY & LA are fine, however, the Washington, DC LILs are what is really needed!!!!!!!!!! You will never guess that I live in Northern VA, that even with a fairly sophisticed outdoor antenna my OTA is problematic at best and that I need to see my beloved Redskins!

Git-R-Done, Charlie!!

---Doug

 

[riffjim4069]

Doug, it's a problem with WTTG-DT....their DTV antenna is 200ft. lower than WJLA-DT and WUSA-DT and is side-mounted. Once they raise their antenna next summer, all should be well.

 

[BobMurdoch]

When E* first started offering LILs in the late 90s they started with NY and LA, hence my assumption that these will be first.

 

[datwell]

Bob: Yup. Does sound reasonable - they are the largest markets in the country.

riffjim4069: You appear to know this area - I am on the wrong side of the hill upon which old Fort Buffalo once stood and to make matters worse, some years ago they built two tall bank buildings in 7 Corners just a block or two away that are directly in my line of sight to the transmitters. Things hopefully will be better after the leaves fall. The wind this weekend just wreaked havoc with my OTA reception.

---Doug