ladder length

[Joe Diamond]

I'd be kinda ticked off if the installer said they'd charge $100 extra due to having to use a 40 foot ladder. I'd probably tell the installer to take a hike. It's not like they had to go out and rent a special ladder or a construction crane just for your installation.

The ladder fee = either renting a 40 ft ladder or buying one that isn't used much. Then they are heavy enough that OSHA requires two persons to carry and use them.
Since they are being used for electrical work the must be FG and NOT metal; OSHA again + how would you like to be on a 40ft lightning rod?

Having once completed the installation every other service visit will need the same ladder and require the same charge. Ever tried humping one of those suckers in the dark in snow? One person cannot carry one on a bank on a wet lawn.
They will blow off a building unless tied at the top and can kill if they fall while being erected. Then you get to carry tools and equipment up and down a ladder that will buck enough to throw you off if there is moderate wind. Heavy wind will cancel the work as will ice on the ground. They can damage gutters if not used correctly.

Did I miss anything?

Joe

 

[grydlok]

The ladder fee = either renting a 40 ft ladder or buying one that isn't used much. Then they are heavy enough that OSHA requires two persons to carry and use them.
Since they are being used for electrical work the must be FG and NOT metal; OSHA again + how would you like to be on a 40ft lightning rod?

Having once completed the installation every other service visit will need the same ladder and require the same charge. Ever tried humping one of those suckers in the dark in snow? One person cannot carry one on a bank on a wet lawn.
They will blow off a building unless tied at the top and can kill if they fall while being erected. Then you get to carry tools and equipment up and down a ladder that will buck enough to throw you off if there is moderate wind. Heavy wind will cancel the work as will ice on the ground. They can damage gutters if not used correctly.

Did I miss anything?

Joe

You didn't miss anything outside of a fall from a 40ft really would put you out for a while.

 

[yorktown]

Did I miss anything?

Joe

Yep, you missed the part about how an installation company should own a 40 foot ladder even though it's not used very often.

The part about needing 2 guys to move it, the ladder bucking, having to carry tools on the ladder, etc.... doesn't have anything to do with charging a customer $100 extra. Are you trying to charge $100 extra for hazardous work or something ? Give me a break !

If DIRECTV told me(the customer) that the installation was free and the installer was telling me he was gonna charge me $100 extra because he has to use a 40 foot, I'd tell the installer to charge DIRECTV $100 extra, not me.

The customer shouldn't have to pay the installer $100 extra to "rent" the 40 foot ladder.

 

[grydlok]

Yep, you missed the part about how an installation company should own a 40 foot ladder even though it's not used very often.

The part about needing 2 guys to move it, the ladder bucking, having to carry tools on the ladder, etc.... doesn't have anything to do with charging a customer $100 extra. Are you trying to charge $100 extra for hazardous work or something ? Give me a break !

If DIRECTV told me(the customer) that the installation was free and the installer was telling me he was gonna charge me $100 extra because he has to use a 40 foot, I'd tell the installer to charge DIRECTV $100 extra, not me.

The customer shouldn't have to pay the installer $100 extra to "rent" the 40 foot ladder.

STANDARD INSTALLATIONS are Free

 

[Joe Diamond]

Yep, you missed the part about how an installation company should own a 40 foot ladder even though it's not used very often.

The part about needing 2 guys to move it, the ladder bucking, having to carry tools on the ladder, etc.... doesn't have anything to do with charging a customer $100 extra. Are you trying to charge $100 extra for hazardous work or something ? Give me a break !

If DIRECTV told me(the customer) that the installation was free and the installer was telling me he was gonna charge me $100 extra because he has to use a 40 foot, I'd tell the installer to charge DIRECTV $100 extra, not me.

The customer shouldn't have to pay the installer $100 extra to "rent" the 40 foot ladder.

It is not the cost of the ladder use that requires the extra bucks. It is the need for a helper and the extra time to do everything on the roof after climbing up and back on the ladder. ALL installers arrive with a FG 30 foot extension ladder and this is good enough for most installations.

I shouldn't be the one to explain this. There are many things included in the FREE BASIC installation. Well, maybe a few things,......Anyhow there is also a list of things that are NOT included. Directv also publishes a list of custom charges: CUSTOM CHARGES. And there was a note that this is all you can charge. I object to them telling me what to charge.

When I arrive at an installation site I always note custom charges, if any, up front. The customer can hire & pay me....do it themselves....or hire someone else. I gotta know soon because I gotta move to the next one. Know that I get Directv installation work from Home Theatre Companies who have contracts with clients who will not allow the Directv HSP personnel on the property.

In theory EVERY installation should have a site survey and an estimated cost. Directv has tried to bypass this fundamental contract procedure.

Install the dish yourself. Good luck! It shouldn't be this confusing.

I feel your pain.

Joe

 

[Joe Diamond]

STANDARD INSTALLATIONS are Free

SEE BELOW

Standard installations are FREE..........If you live in a shack!
If your personal installation exceeds very ambiguous guidelines, installers will seek ways to compensate for other abuses that are not your fault.

Once the system is running the installation will seem cheap even if it was FREE. Have you ever lived through a "surgical strike" or met "light resistance" or been one of the "light casualties". FREE installations are like that. Everyone wants one..few get there.

Joe

 

[yorktown]

Install the dish yourself. Good luck! It shouldn't be this confusing.

I feel your pain.

Joe

I don't have any pain.

I've installed all my own dishes.
I'd want someone to come out and charge me $50-$100 for each wall fish I needed done.

 

[Joe Diamond]

I don't have any pain.

I've installed all my own dishes.
I'd want someone to come out and charge me $50-$100 for each wall fish I needed done.

A wall fish is less specific than Directv systems. You don't need a DTV tech for that. Alarm service guys seem to be best. They do cavity work all the time. The $50.00 to $100.00 is in the right range to start. If you call around they may quote an hourly rate with a minimum to show up and look.

They might even carry the 40 ft ladder as a standard practice.

With all service work there is a price that can be quoted while on site, having seen the actual job. Then there is a ball park price that will hit most work. What Directv and DISH want is a standard rate for services. They offer enough work to allow for acceptance of an average price. Where it gets murkey is when a customer expects to pay little or nothing and wants a price quotation over the phone.

Let me find a smilie face......

Joe

 

[enricong]

Here are my photos. sorry for the delay, this is the first time I have been at home while there is sunlight outside.

Dish on Roof

Grounding, black cable to AC, white cable run along bottom then back up to room

Cables was run down edge of siding, along bottom then back up to here

Wall penetration

SWM

 

[grydlok]

you don't have any electric on the outside of the townhouse outside the ac?

 

[Joe Diamond]

Is that green ground wire attached to the AC frame? Is that ground wire on the black feed line going around in the service loop?

Interesting approach!

Joe

 

[enricong]

Yes the green wire is attached to the AC frame, I think the black wire is the ground. I think that the AC frame is typically tied to electrical ground, although I don't know how good it is. For the electronics I build at work, we aren't allowed to ground through a screw, I don't know what the requirements are for directv. I've never had a ground before because I was in an apartment.

The electrical box is on the other side of the garage on the other side of the house, I guess it would have been harder to route the cable from the back of the house around to the front. In the end, if my dish gets struck by lightning, I'm not sure how much a thin wire will help me. Its running down the entire length of my house though.

I see the service loop at the ground block, however there's no loop going into the house. I'd be more concerned about that connect than the ground block. I asked about that, but he said that since he is putting silicone there, a loop is not required. The wire is coming up from the bottom so I'm not sure why he brought it up above first

 

[wildbill129]

Yes the green wire is attached to the AC frame, I think the black wire is the ground. I think that the AC frame is typically tied to electrical ground, although I don't know how good it is. For the electronics I build at work, we aren't allowed to ground through a screw, I don't know what the requirements are for directv. I've never had a ground before because I was in an apartment.

The electrical box is on the other side of the garage on the other side of the house, I guess it would have been harder to route the cable from the back of the house around to the front. In the end, if my dish gets struck by lightning, I'm not sure how much a thin wire will help me. Its running down the entire length of my house though.

I see the service loop at the ground block, however there's no loop going into the house. I'd be more concerned about that connect than the ground block. I asked about that, but he said that since he is putting silicone there, a loop is not required. The wire is coming up from the bottom so I'm not sure why he brought it up above first

The frame of an A/C unit is grounded. All electrical appliances are grounded at the frame. There should be a disconnect at the AC unit. (A small panel) The ground can and should be attached there. It's tied to the house bond. It's a quicker path to ground, and would avoid the potential of a fried A/C unit. (Although, a direct lightening strike is going to fry everything anyway).

As far as the service/drip loop. One point of a drip loop is to avoid water traveling down and into the house. If the wire is running up to the entry point into the house, a drip loop won't make any difference. (As long as the wire doesn't travel up past the entry point and back down again. The only other benefit would be a little extra wire to play with if needed in the future. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[enricong]

As far as the service/drip loop. One point of a drip loop is to avoid water traveling down and into the house. If the wire is running up to the entry point into the house, a drip loop won't make any difference. (As long as the wire doesn't travel up past the entry point and back down again. The only other benefit would be a little extra wire to play with if needed in the future. I wouldn't worry about it.

From the photo, it looks like the wire does travel a little past the entry point and back down.

 

[Joe Diamond]

We are heading for another grounding thread,

However, the ground wire does not go around the service loop. Electric code requires antenna to be grounded to the common electric bond. Introducing an outside pulse to the house electric system is a no no.

Pretty typical installation....much to fix........will probably work fine for years.
Don't mow the cable in the lawn!

Joe

 

[wildbill129]

We are heading for another grounding thread,

However, the ground wire does not go around the service loop. Electric code requires antenna to be grounded to the common electric bond. Introducing an outside pulse to the house electric system is a no no.

Joe

Technically, that ground wire is tied to the house bond. All metal appliances are grounded to the house bond. It would be the same as attaching a ground lug to the outside panel if there is one. It's just a longer path to get there. I certainly wouldn't do that, but it would work. Cheesy though....

 

[wildbill129]

From the photo, it looks like the wire does travel a little past the entry point and back down.

Yah, missed that picture. Missed all the pictures....YIKES!!! Wires hanging on the ground.....bad, lazy work.

To the OP, pull that white wire going into your wall down ever so slightly so that it's below the entry point. Or, with so much extra wire, put in a drip loop and tack it down...