no, he still had it on him!! if u like read my rant a few up. its long and all over the place but ( i think) a few valid points
Kenny Rogers --- Cheater? YES/NO your opinion...
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no, he still had it on him!! if u like read my rant a few up. its long and all over the place but ( i think) a few valid points
Scott, it does matter because he broke the rule. He had a foreign substance in his hand and he should have been ejected. He did pitch a hell of a game and has been pitching great but he broke a rule and the rule says he should have been ejected.
Has he been doing it for a long time? I don't know but all I know is that he had something in his hand last night and should've been ejected.
Has he been doing it for a long time? I don't know but all I know is that he had something in his hand last night and should've been ejected.
I'm just quoting the umpires on this matter. If the substance was indeed shite, then I say toss Rogers out of baseball.:up
If it was $hit, he needs to learn how to wipe his a$$.
I just threw in there because someone earlier in the thread suggested it.
Read the rants, no valid points were found. If Rogers had indeed cheated, I honestly believe the umps would have jumped on him faster than Anna Nicole Smith jumps on the deathbed of an aging billionaire. Are you saying the umpires aided and abetted Rogers in cheating? It sounds like you are, because they couldn't have merely just "looked the other way" after this incident was brought to their attention.
well like i said i was looking for non cardinal and tiger fans, i know how we are going to anwser. thanks
and i was saying the umps and our manager screwed up, not aided. then im saying he still had tar on him, as i said in rant, also i failed to say the ear too. had it there. thanks again
and i was saying the umps and our manager screwed up, not aided. then im saying he still had tar on him, as i said in rant, also i failed to say the ear too. had it there. thanks again
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I am going to say they did....if you read the rules he should have been ejected....and why has no one answered my question why would Kenny rogers lie if it was JUST mud...why would he lie about the ump asking him to wash it off? Also why would the mud just happen to be in the same place on his hand for two different games? just answer those questions.....also about the "mud" being on his hands, I use to play football and I never NEVER saw a mud smear be in the same exact location, in teh same form and everything....sorry dosent happen, stop defending this guy, he is a cheater, I know if one of my beloved indians cheated, I would ask for him to be off the team (albert belle I was very stern in my not supporting him after the corked bat)
This is incorrect, the umpire is not allowed to remove any player in such a situation UNLESS the opposing manager tells the UMP to check the guy... Also, St. louis and the umps would never had known anything had FOX not brought it up, which in itself is wrong.
Just like Bernt Mustberger a few weeks back telling the audience what play USC was going to run.
Both announcers have ST. Louis ties, therefore hunting for ways to help thier team, with FOX's help
Both Tim McCArver and Joe Buck should be removed for using thier position to benifit one team or the other.
Jimbo
read my previous post.
The Umpire cannot remove a player without the opposition asking for a player to be checked, it is not thier position to do that type of thing, they are suppose to be doing thier job, calling the game and they did, they cannot go out and point out a problem for the other team, if the other team does not notice it, the umps must let it go.
In this case the homer announcers made the call and they should be removed, none of this would have been noticed had FOX not brought it up.
The Yankees and A's didn't have a problem with Rogers ....
oh okay, I am going to go rob a bank, or steal a car, and as long as no one notices, the cops cant do anything about it, just dont point me out to the cops and I will be fine.....what a load of crap, no offense jimbo.
Jimbo,
If you haven't heard Tony LaRussa press conference today, I suggest you to do so. According to LaRussa he knew before the game there was something in Kenny Roger's hand from previous video. LaRussa admitted this. When LaRussa was asked why he did not have the UMP strip Kenny, LaRussa said that he was not going to get in an ugly situation on National TV and in the World Series. LaRussa feels that there should not be something like this damaging the integrity of the game. I quite disagree with his argument during the press conference, but I could see his point and even go beyond and question his motive for not doing it. Maybe there is something in LaRussa's past about players cheating (McGuire, Canseco). Anyway, LaRussa said that he knew before the game what was going on. He also sent the message in a very smart way... Don't do it again because I will embarass "you". Leyland chose to "no coment" when asked during the press conference today.
LaRussa also implicitly remarked that there was pine tar in Roger's hand.
Lots of you are saying that it does not matter because he pitched well afterwards. Well it matters because he broke the rule. He should have not been able to pitch the game or pitch in the series again if MLB had any "balls". I am not a Tiger fan nor a Cardinal fan but love baseball and it seems to me that this does more damage to the game (especially the World Series). If Selig had balls, they would have reacted to the problem. Instead MLB has opted to sit behind the "curtain" just like they did with steroids.
From ESPN
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2006/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2636469
Why did LaRussa chose not to address the incident with the UMP and his rationale?
As it turned out, however, this story took on a whole new life Monday. Thanks mostly to La Russa.
Sunday night, in the heat of the moment, he'd dodged all the questions about what he thought was on Rogers' hand, what he said to the umpires and why he didn't demand that Rogers be checked for, well, who knows what -- clumps of dirt? pine tar? weapons of mass destruction?
But by Monday afternoon, La Russa said he'd "had a chance to think about it." And he was ready to explain (cue the trumpets) his side of this saga.
He is one of those guys, he philosophized, who happens to "believe in the purity of the competition." So because of that belief -- which we wish everybody in the entire sporting universe shared, by the way -- he can't help but "detest any kind of BS that gets in the way of the competition."
So obviously, he sure didn't want any BS to get in the way of a World Series game. Who would?
But then there he was in the first inning Sunday, and several of his players came sprinting down the tunnel from their spot in front of the clubhouse flat screen to inform him that the Fox TV cameras were zeroing in on a big brown splotch on Rogers' pitching hand.
Uh-oh. BS alert.
"Now," La Russa said, "I have a decision to make, and I decided that I was not going to be part of the BS where I was going to ask the umpire to go to the mound and undress the pitcher. Now, what was I going to do? I alerted him. I said, 'I hope it gets fixed. If it doesn't get fixed, then I'll take the next step.' "
Now, though, we'll never know now what The Next Step might be. (Raising the pine-tar alert level to red, maybe?) That's because, in La Russa's opinion, Rogers did in fact "fix it" -- "and we still couldn't hit him."
Did LaRussa know about Roger's secret taint on his hand before game 2?
For instance, at one point La Russa was asked a question about whether he thought Rogers' self-gloppage had crossed a line and become a "violation of the competition."
While answering that one, he just happened to mention that while he didn't spot this particular splotch on Rogers' hand, "I did watch video of the other postseason games, so I had an idea of what it looked like."
The question: "After seeing the video, do you believe that it was dirt that Kenny had on his hand, or was it something else?"
As that question hung in the air like a Jose Lima splitter, you could almost see La Russa's brain cells whirring. First he smiled. Then he let out an actual "Heh-heh."
Finally, he answered: "I don't believe it was dirt. Didn't look like dirt."
And with that 10-word answer, it was safe to add him to the millions and billions and trillions of Americans who clearly are having major trouble believing Rogers' dubious account of what was going on out there Sunday.
Kenny's explanation
"I explained myself last night," Rogers said. "Anyone who wants to continue it -- it's their agenda, not mine."
And you know what? That's true, in fact. The last thing Kenny Rogers needs right now is his own how-was-I-supposed-to-notice-that-clump-of-dirt-on-my-hand agenda. So the how-couldn't-he-notice-it agenda was all ours -- with some help from our friends in the Cardinals' clubhouse, that is.
Catcher Gary Bennett wasn't doing any accusing of Rogers or anybody else Monday. But he confirmed exclusively to ESPN.com that he has, in the past, gotten dirty. And when that dirt has shown up on various body parts, he has pretty much always noticed it right away, he said.
"Especially on your hands," Bennett said. "You usually know. After a slide or a play at the plate, maybe you'll get some dirt on your forearm and you won't know it. But usually, in my experience, I've known when I had dirt on my hand."
Ah-ha. So that again raises the chance that maybe it wasn't dirt on Rogers' hand. But this being America, Rogers retains the right to plead innocent -- because there are still lots and lots of potentially legal substances that could have been on his hand.
"You know, he has a terrible habit," Tigers coach Andy Van Slyke reported, "of eating Tootsie Rolls. And he happened to sit next to a heater."
Right. That was probably it. And there are undoubtedly other possibilities, too. Like, well, chocolate cake. Tigers closer Todd Jones tossed that one out there Sunday night.
"No," Van Slyke said, in instant denial mode. "You can't bring cake on the bench. You've got to eat something with a wrapper on it."
All right. How about soup? That's about the same color as Rogers' hand.
"Nope," Van Slyke said. "No utensils allowed on the bench. But if we were playing in Japan, it might have been wasabi."
OK, so if this were the Japan tour, we might be on to something. But since this is the World Series, that's out.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2006/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2636469
Why did LaRussa chose not to address the incident with the UMP and his rationale?
As it turned out, however, this story took on a whole new life Monday. Thanks mostly to La Russa.
Sunday night, in the heat of the moment, he'd dodged all the questions about what he thought was on Rogers' hand, what he said to the umpires and why he didn't demand that Rogers be checked for, well, who knows what -- clumps of dirt? pine tar? weapons of mass destruction?
But by Monday afternoon, La Russa said he'd "had a chance to think about it." And he was ready to explain (cue the trumpets) his side of this saga.
He is one of those guys, he philosophized, who happens to "believe in the purity of the competition." So because of that belief -- which we wish everybody in the entire sporting universe shared, by the way -- he can't help but "detest any kind of BS that gets in the way of the competition."
So obviously, he sure didn't want any BS to get in the way of a World Series game. Who would?
But then there he was in the first inning Sunday, and several of his players came sprinting down the tunnel from their spot in front of the clubhouse flat screen to inform him that the Fox TV cameras were zeroing in on a big brown splotch on Rogers' pitching hand.
Uh-oh. BS alert.
"Now," La Russa said, "I have a decision to make, and I decided that I was not going to be part of the BS where I was going to ask the umpire to go to the mound and undress the pitcher. Now, what was I going to do? I alerted him. I said, 'I hope it gets fixed. If it doesn't get fixed, then I'll take the next step.' "
Now, though, we'll never know now what The Next Step might be. (Raising the pine-tar alert level to red, maybe?) That's because, in La Russa's opinion, Rogers did in fact "fix it" -- "and we still couldn't hit him."
Did LaRussa know about Roger's secret taint on his hand before game 2?
For instance, at one point La Russa was asked a question about whether he thought Rogers' self-gloppage had crossed a line and become a "violation of the competition."
While answering that one, he just happened to mention that while he didn't spot this particular splotch on Rogers' hand, "I did watch video of the other postseason games, so I had an idea of what it looked like."
The question: "After seeing the video, do you believe that it was dirt that Kenny had on his hand, or was it something else?"
As that question hung in the air like a Jose Lima splitter, you could almost see La Russa's brain cells whirring. First he smiled. Then he let out an actual "Heh-heh."
Finally, he answered: "I don't believe it was dirt. Didn't look like dirt."
And with that 10-word answer, it was safe to add him to the millions and billions and trillions of Americans who clearly are having major trouble believing Rogers' dubious account of what was going on out there Sunday.
Kenny's explanation
"I explained myself last night," Rogers said. "Anyone who wants to continue it -- it's their agenda, not mine."
And you know what? That's true, in fact. The last thing Kenny Rogers needs right now is his own how-was-I-supposed-to-notice-that-clump-of-dirt-on-my-hand agenda. So the how-couldn't-he-notice-it agenda was all ours -- with some help from our friends in the Cardinals' clubhouse, that is.
Catcher Gary Bennett wasn't doing any accusing of Rogers or anybody else Monday. But he confirmed exclusively to ESPN.com that he has, in the past, gotten dirty. And when that dirt has shown up on various body parts, he has pretty much always noticed it right away, he said.
"Especially on your hands," Bennett said. "You usually know. After a slide or a play at the plate, maybe you'll get some dirt on your forearm and you won't know it. But usually, in my experience, I've known when I had dirt on my hand."
Ah-ha. So that again raises the chance that maybe it wasn't dirt on Rogers' hand. But this being America, Rogers retains the right to plead innocent -- because there are still lots and lots of potentially legal substances that could have been on his hand.
"You know, he has a terrible habit," Tigers coach Andy Van Slyke reported, "of eating Tootsie Rolls. And he happened to sit next to a heater."
Right. That was probably it. And there are undoubtedly other possibilities, too. Like, well, chocolate cake. Tigers closer Todd Jones tossed that one out there Sunday night.
"No," Van Slyke said, in instant denial mode. "You can't bring cake on the bench. You've got to eat something with a wrapper on it."
All right. How about soup? That's about the same color as Rogers' hand.
"Nope," Van Slyke said. "No utensils allowed on the bench. But if we were playing in Japan, it might have been wasabi."
OK, so if this were the Japan tour, we might be on to something. But since this is the World Series, that's out.
Selig can't do S**T about it, that would be like saying this is worse than everyone getting away with steroids.
It seems awfully strange that the Yankess never said anything, you know how they cry about everything if it doesn't go thier way, LA Russa would never had known had FOX and the St Louis announcers not got the info from FOX, if you think La Russa happened to pick it up prior to this game, it was FOX doing the digging ... BTW, is FOX in St Louis too ???
Jimbo
What a post .... sheeessh .
Have YOU ever fibed about anything ?
He still had to pitch the ball. Did you want him to get naked on TV, god I would have to turnoff the set.
Lets see how your stud pitches, oh btw, make sure he doesn't scuff any BB's, you know he won't be using pine tar,thats already been tried.
Once again, an umpire cannot remove a pitcher without the oppsing Manager asking for them to check their pitcher ...
I think you need to read or hear his press conference. The video LaRussa is referring to was in the ALCS (against the As). Why no one picked up before game 2? Because no one was looking for it. We all thought that the games were fair and square but after game 2, we learned that it was not. Again read or hear LaRussa's press conference. I printed his quote in the previous post. He knew about the substance on his hand. Right now, that same substance is appearing all over games he pitched during the playoffs or the regular season. The fact that MLB won't do anything it just means that they do not want to taint the WS 2006 with cheating, IMHO But in the court of public opinion (us the fans), it may be a different opinion.
Wait a minute, IF you rob a bank and no one notices, and doesn't point you out to the cops, Didn't you just rob the bank ? and get away with it ?
I've listed in the last 5 or so post why he was not ejected, had La Russa said to teh ump that he wanted Rogers checked , the UMPs would have done so, and ejected him ....
Now, how many of St. Louis's sudden pitching studs have been cheating ?
Suppan didn't have a great season, 12-7 I think, now suddenly he's un hittable ???
Weaver, he could not pitch for the last 4 years, now he looks pretty damn good.....
Things that make you go, Hmmmmmm ....
So, are you saying he should not be pitching this well, because he hasn't previously ?
He pitched very well all season, except for about a 1-2 week stretch, 17-8 with a 3.42 era sounds like a pretty respectable year to me, so him winning is not a fluke thing this year
