Just thought I would throw that out!

[wmhjr]

How to let Charlie know?

I really wish I had an answer to that question. I know that when it happened, I raised holy h*&l - escalating to the point where they finally agreed to rebate me $4.98 for the single 510 I had so long as I never made any other changes to my account, and would not apply it further. When I added the HD pack, they eliminated the $4.98 rebate. That's when I switched to AEP - because AEP eliminated roughly $10 of VOD fees even though I didn't get any more programming that I gave a crap about. The fact is that E* knows it really infuriated people, but are banking that nobody will realize the swindle. Take a look at their marketing. They way they describe it, you would naturally assume that E* was actually providing some sort of interactive service and not just a feature set in a receiver you own. I truly believe this to be not just unethical, but dishonest and borlerline fraud.

But, I don't think there is anything to be done. Charlie just doesn't care.

 

[jbcheshire]

Yes, there is something you can do... go to Voom!!!

 

[dishrich]

But, I don't think there is anything to be done. Charlie just doesn't care.

As long as people continue to pay for this scam, you're correct - & exactly WHO'S fault is that?
Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head to stay w/E*...
As long as there are SO many people crazy enough to pay for it, E* WILL continue to charge it.

 

[wmhjr]

But you can't really blame the consumer completely

The problem is two-fold. Existing or informed customers like us are often aware of it. Some of us - like me - vote with our wallets and leave E*. Others decide just to accept it. I'm not sure I'd leave E* "just" because of this. However, I would constantly barrage them with complaints - each and every month if I were to stay. It's the rest of the stuff in addition to the VOD fee that caused me to finally give up E*.

The second part is new users who just don't know any better. They listen to the marketing and advertising from Dish and believe what they're told. It really is unfortunate.

What I don't understand is why TiVo or cable doesn't directly attack Dish on this. It seems like a marketing bonanza. They could absolutely kill Dish on this point - fact by fact. And there's nothing Charlie could do about it. Especially since TiVo is facing some hard times ahead. If I were them, I'd be on the attack publicly and make as much hay as I could while the sun shines.

 

[Paul_Medenwaldt]

I've read through the posts, but I'd like to go back to the original post and make a comment.

I agree with you? Why?

Not because i'm a Dish sympathizer or I'm sitting on somebody's payroll. Yea i've only posted to this site a few times, but heres why.

I have a friend who really got me into the whole digital realm. He is a tech geek. He has a Panny projector, 88" screen and he beta tests D* Tivo HD hardware. He has so much other hardware I don't even know what half of it does. I envy him and the knowledge he has for his equipment. He helped with setting up my equipement, answering my questions and giving me great advice. He took a lot of time to help me even with having a wife and 2 young children.

My friend also has a brain tumor. Because of surgery, his brain has swelled and due to this he is confined to a bed with a breathing tube. He was admitted to a nursing home over the holidays where they don't expect him to get any better (he is now back in a hospital, recoving from another brain surgery and will hopefully begin therapy to regain some mobility and speech).

This has put my priorities into perspective. I look at the world a lot different and it's minor complexities.

Whenever my remote stops responding to my 811 (since i've i downloaded the 284 firmware) I don't complain if i have to get up and walk 2 feet and turn off my receiver. Why? because I have a friend who can't even lift a remote.

Whenever I think that my 510 or 501 doesn't have NBR, it doesn't bother me. Why? well guess why.

What i just want to say is, don't let the little things in life consume you. Its not worth it.

Paul

 

[Slamminc11]

Paul, thanks, that is the best post that I have seen on this site! Sorry about your friend and yes it does put things in perspective for sure!

 

[wmhjr]

Paul,

I really sympathize, but that doesn't change a darn thing. I'm not going to accept less because I could always be worse off. Life is too short for mediocrity. So, while I truly feel bad for your friend it doesn't make a hoot of difference with respect to cable or dish service.

 

[jtravel]

Here is my perspective as someone who has only been with DISH 1 1/2 months under the DHA plan.

I don't mind the $4.98 VOD fee and feel its a bargain for what Im getting at no upfront cost with A 522 DVR.
Comcast wanted a $9.98 DVR fee
DirectTV wants $4.98 and I have to buy the DVR
TIVO wants $12.98 and I have to Buy the DVR.

Owners of the early Dish DVR boxes are still getting VOD for free so how has DISH Cheated them?

Dish has spent money developing the software and continues to try and improve and maintain it to provide the DVR service and I expect to have to pay for it.
It would be unheard of to keep giving it away for free.

I agree I would want NBR like I get with the 522 if Im paying the fee but didn't owners of the other DVR's know what they were getting when they agreed to buy or lease thoes models?

PQ suffers with compression but basically all providers are doing the same are they not?
Comcast Digital was twice as bad as im getting now with DISH.

my 522 has some minor glitches and issues but overall it works good and Im very happy with everything it can do.
My PC and Microsoft software also has issues and problems far worse than thoes of my 522 and I live with them.
If you go around life expecting everything is going to work perfect your in for a world of disapointment.

I get Top 120 with locals, Hbo,Cin,DVR, extended warranty for only $5 more per month than I was paying Comcast for Digital plus service with no Premium channels or DVR.

 

[Big Bob]

I really sympathize, but that doesn't change a darn thing. I'm not going to accept less because I could always be worse off. Life is too short for mediocrity. So, while I truly feel bad for your friend it doesn't make a hoot of difference with respect to cable or dish service.

Actually, life is too short to worry about perfection.

 

[wmhjr]

There's a LOT of distance between mediocrity and perfection...

Actually, life is too short to worry about perfection.

 

[wmhjr]

Specific factual answers

1) What are you getting with no upfront cost for the VOD fee? You pay $4.98 for VOD, then $5 or whatever for the receiver itself = $10 per unit. Pretty much the EXACT same cost for the SA8300HD from Adelphia - except absolutely no upfront cost AND no contract. AND, immediate equip replacement when newer model comes out, etc. I'd be happy to pay the TiVoi fee IF i got the TiVo service.

2) Owners of 510's are not what I'd consider to be early. They BOUGHT the boxes outright. Why are they paying $4.98? Again, THERE IS NO SERVICE.

3) When you buy the box, you are already paying for development costs. Whey you buy the programming, you are already paying for SW maintenance costs. If - and only if - you lease the box can I possibly understand the fee. But the name is clearly wrong even in that case.

4) Please read the prior posts. Dish deliberately misleads people into believing there is actually a "service". That's why on top of everything else you can't just blame the consumer for paying for it.

5) All providers are not equal. Comcast - where you are - is not Comcast everywhere, and is not the same as other cable providers. Compression is highly variable. My HD PQ is better on cable than on Dish.

6) Finally, PEOPLE - QUIT COMPARING THE G&% D($&# THING TO AN OPERATING SYSTEM FOR A PC WHERE VERY F&#(*$ING THING CAN BE MODIFIED AND WHERE HARDWARE IS PRODUCED BY A MILLION DIFFERENT MANUFACTURERS WITH A ZILLION DIFFERENT VERSIONS!!!! How dense can people be?

I get absolutely everything from Adelphia including ALL premiums, 3 dual tuner HD DVRs - EVERYTHING with no contract, no upfront cost - and it's almost $20/month cheaper than Dish - where I got less HD, only two premiums, and had to buy ALL of my equipment. And no - I'm not temporarily getting any kind of a "discount". I'm paying full rate.

Here is my perspective as someone who has only been with DISH 1 1/2 months under the DHA plan.

I don't mind the $4.98 VOD fee and feel its a bargain for what Im getting at no upfront cost with A 522 DVR.
Comcast wanted a $9.98 DVR fee
DirectTV wants $4.98 and I have to buy the DVR
TIVO wants $12.98 and I have to Buy the DVR.

Owners of the early Dish DVR boxes are still getting VOD for free so how has DISH Cheated them?

Dish has spent money developing the software and continues to try and improve and maintain it to provide the DVR service and I expect to have to pay for it.
It would be unheard of to keep giving it away for free.

I agree I would want NBR like I get with the 522 if Im paying the fee but didn't owners of the other DVR's know what they were getting when they agreed to buy or lease thoes models?

PQ suffers with compression but basically all providers are doing the same are they not?
Comcast Digital was twice as bad as im getting now with DISH.

my 522 has some minor glitches and issues but overall it works good and Im very happy with everything it can do.
My PC and Microsoft software also has issues and problems far worse than thoes of my 522 and I live with them.
If you go around life expecting everything is going to work perfect your in for a world of disapointment.

I get Top 120 with locals, Hbo,Cin,DVR, extended warranty for only $5 more per month than I was paying Comcast for Digital plus service with no Premium channels or DVR.

 

[jtravel]

There is no real lease fee with DHA that Im paying for my 522 because its included in the cost of the min Programming Package with locals.
I pay $4.98 for the DVR over the cost of America's Top 120 with locals package, Thats it.
Now if someone didn't want locals they would have to pay for it anyways because of the Min required package rule.

Sorry but I don't see any difference in the DVR service that Dish,Direct or Cable is offering and charging for. Cable charges $9.95 per month for the DVR.
I agree TIVO stand-alone does provide a far more expanded service than Cable or Sat DVR and the higher fee may be justified if you want thoes extras. I don't and wouldn't pay for them at this point.
I only want to pause & rewind live TV and NBR

Im feeding two rooms and there is no $5 extra receiver fee because I keep the phone line connected.
Each room can pause and rewind live TV and record so its like getting Two seperate DVR units.
My 522 is awesum for what it does and Im more than happy to pay the $4.98 per month Vod fee that goes with it.
I would have to pay the same monthly cost for two non-DVR receivers.

my 522 has only experienced minor issues that do not impact my viewing enjoyment. Dish will replace it free of charge in 2 days thru UPS if it does break and I can live with that.
Its a Hell of a great deal for what im getting and Im very happy with it.

Your situation is different than mine because you want HD. If your Cable provider works for your HD needs then thats great. Comcast in Tucson,AZ was terrible and way more expensive for what I wanted.

People who purchased 510 should read the Terms and understood they were going to have to pay a $4.98 per month VOD fee.
It was there choice to buy the 510, They could have purchased the older DVR's with no fee if they felt it was a better value at the time.
Its your personal choice and decision on what you decide to purchase.

The Great thing is If we are not happy with our provider we can take our business elsewhere.
Dish DHA plan requires no contract so Im free to switch at anytime.
If I think I can get a better value for what I require I will switch.
Thats why I switched from Cable to Dish.

1) What are you getting with no upfront cost for the VOD fee? You pay $4.98 for VOD, then $5 or whatever for the receiver itself = $10 per unit. Pretty much the EXACT same cost for the SA8300HD from Adelphia - except absolutely no upfront cost AND no contract. AND, immediate equip replacement when newer model comes out, etc. I'd be happy to pay the TiVoi fee IF i got the TiVo service.

 

[wmhjr]

Hope it works out for you

Please let me know if/when the 522 has problems how long it takes to resolve them. I'm very happy that if for some reason one of my 3 DVRs fail, I can swap it out with Adelphia within hours at no cost.

And, I know it's unique by DMA and carrier, but cable was cheaper month over month even with me already owning all my own Dish equipment. Of course, your programming level was quite a bit lower at AT50, so the numbers may well be a bit different. Plus, I had a number of receivers instead of just a single 522.

I certainly agree that should things change I would also change my provider. I just don't see anything but a decline of quality and value with Dish over the past 18 months - and no reason to believe it will stop. However, cable has made great strides in general and the cycle seems to be growing faster.

 

[WorkOutMN]

smroycro:

I do not have a complaint about bugs in my equipment or how it was hooked up. My 811 froze from time to time, but for the past six months it's been pretty stable. My 6000 has been fine.

Not to mix metaphors, but it appears that DISH is running around like a chicken with its head cut off wearing rose-colored glasses. That's my problem.

They so-proudly announce their DVR942 system -- available "First Quarter 2005" which, those of us who have been with DISH long enough know is code for "We're shooting for Labor Day 2005, but don't hold your breath" -- and go on in their press release about how great it is, they're the leader in HD, blah blah blah, and on the same day Scientific Atlanta announces the SA8300HD DVR box but -- get this -- it's available immediately, I don't have to pay $749 for it, and it includes an SATA port on the back for ... expansion! *gasp* And a WORKING FIREWIRE PORT is even an option on them. And they're rock-solid. The problem I mentioned in a post last month about the sleep timer not responding to the remote and prompting a soft reboot? Fixed, after only a month. How many bugs are there still for the 921's?

And this is just after the announced transition to MP4 which renders those expensive 921's and 942's obsolete. And that a year after announcing a promised feature on the 921 -- Firewire -- would never be activated, but no refund for those that spent over a grand in part for that promise.

I don't care for hypocrites, or idiots -- whichever is prompting Dish to proclaim their leadership status. I work hard for my money and I expect a good return on what I pay for.

I switched to Time Warner after seeing all the crap Dish has shoveled out in the past year and a half, and I don't regret it in the least. I have more HD channels than I did with Dish, they look great without needing an external OTA antenna, and I went from two non-DVR boxes with Dish to three boxes, two of which are DVRs, and even when the switcher promo ends I'm only paying another $20/month over Dish.

How in the world is Dish leading?

 

[smroycro]

ok

Uh....ok.