It's now LEGAL to Jailbreak or Root your phone!

[TheForce]

Well, I guess that settles the debate on whether jailbreaking was a violation of DMCA. Now they added the exception, I agree that Apple will do more to make it difficult and do even more yet to refuse to warranty a phone that was jailbroken. I am happy they settled this legal argument. Score one for the little guy and freedom.
Next step- Let's repeal DMCA altogether! OK, that is a big big step but I can wish!

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Well, I guess that settles the debate on whether jailbreaking was a violation of DMCA. Now they added the exception, I agree that Apple will do more to make it difficult and do even more yet to refuse to warranty a phone that was jailbroken. I am happy they settled this legal argument. Score one for the little guy and freedom.
Next step- Let's repeal DMCA altogether! OK, that is a big big step but I can wish!

That is just asking for too much! We can only wish, you are right!!!


But I agree, Jobs will do everything he can to retain control over his so-called ecosystem. (Why do I envision him like the master control player from Tron?)

 

[diogen]

I don't think there is enough information to foresee what Apple will do.
First, I don't think anybody believes in that "magic consumer experience" sh!t they are peddling in public.

Second, the iPhone business generates revenue from a)selling hardware and b)AppStore, iAd, etc.
Having "jailbreaking" de-criminalized will increase hardware sales and possibly decrease AppStore/iAd revenue.

It isn't clear how the balance will change.
If in the end Apple will make more money, why would they try to make jailbreakers' life harder?

Diogen.

 

[mdram]

apples response

Apple Responds to iPhone Jailbreaking Decision | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

 

[diogen]

apples response...

Legalese at its best:

... we know that jailbreaking can severely degrade the experience.
...this can violate the warranty and can cause the iPhone to become unstable and not work reliably.
...Apple may deny service for an iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch that has installed any unauthorized software.

Exactly what they say about hardware "modding", DIY RAM upgrade for example.

Diogen.

 

[mdram]

Legalese at its best:


Exactly what they say about hardware "modding", DIY RAM upgrade for example.

Diogen.

last i heard, if you smoke, and smoke near your computer, apple will void the warranty, as its too dangerous for thier techs to work on without a biohazard suit

 

[TheForce]

That is just asking for too much! We can only wish, you are right!!!


But I agree, Jobs will do everything he can to retain control over his so-called ecosystem. (Why do I envision him like the master control player from Tron?)

Because as an underdog, Apple was the David and MS was Goliath. Times have changed and today, Apple is if not will be the largest corporation in the world. Steve has become "The Man" and it has all gone to his head. Reports are that he has become a borderline psychotic megalomaniac. He wants to control everything.

I will agree with one thing and that is the Apple way of being in control does indeed offer users who don't care about having it special and just want it to do what the company claims it will do are happy with that. Most of us in this crowd love to tinker and customize, have it our way. A few will try this but then run crying like a brat to Apple when they break something and can't fix it or face the music and admit they broke it. I think what Apple claims is absolute fact. If they maintain control of the device from top to bottom, it will work very well. Not perfect as they do make some mistakes, ( iphone4 antenna is a perfect example) but for the most part Apple stuff works without trouble as long as you don't try to do stuff they say you shouldn't. Mike, it is my opinion that there is a much larger crowd of Apple followers than those of us tinkerers. That's the reason for their success. Anyone who fails to see that has his head too far up inside his CPU.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Don I have no doubt of the size of the Apple cult.

The DCMA ruling is not limited to apple of course, and I doubt big red will respond with open arms to rooted custom roms either. Indeed, I can tether wirelessly while rooted without big red sucking out even more marrow from my bones. They don't like that.

 

[Bulldog]

“Free Agent” Environment

Unfortunately, cell companies in the good old USA have a monopoly on its users by locking their phones to their network only, and between them making you pay outrageous fees.

Normally after you have satisfied your commitment, you have been able to ask the cell company for the unlock code free of charge; Except for the IPhone.

Overseas, the majority of the companies sell their phones unlocked, and then you can go from carrier to carrier by just swapping the SIM Card. This is where the competition comes in between these cell companies to get you better service and better rates. In addition unlike the USA, overseas cell companies provide all incoming calls free of charge!

I guess it will take some time before this happens in the USA, where you can purchase a unlock phone anywhere “as the norm”, and then act like a free agent by having the Cell network providers compete with each other for your money by providing special pricing deals.

Some of the reasons that could delay this “Free Agent” environment are due to the fact that unlike the Dominant standard (GSM) that is used worldwide, some companies in the USA (Sprint and Verizon) are still using the outdated iDent and CDMA network process that does not use SIMs; Although I have seen some phones that have the capability to operate under both CDMA and GSM.

We are now enjoying that “Free Agent” environment with home phones. We can go to companies like Vonage and cable companies that compete with Ma Bell’s POPS line.

It is just a matter of time that we will be able to do the same thing with our Cell phones. and catch up with the rest of the world. :tux:

 

[navychop]

I recall someone saying words to the effect: "In Apple, something you want to do is either insanely easy, or impossible!"

 

[digiblur]

Some of the reasons that could delay this “Free Agent” environment are due to the fact that unlike the Dominant standard (GSM) that is used worldwide, some companies in the USA (Sprint and Verizon) are still using the outdated iDent and CDMA network process that does not use SIMs; Although I have seen some phones that have the capability to operate under both CDMA and GSM.

iDEN might be outdated but CDMA is not outdated at all. Although not widely used due to licensing fees, CDMA has many advantages over GSM.

 

[TheForce]

Don I have no doubt of the size of the Apple cult.

The DCMA ruling is not limited to apple of course, and I doubt big red will respond with open arms to rooted custom roms either. Indeed, I can tether wirelessly while rooted without big red sucking out even more marrow from my bones. They don't like that.

For the last 2 years now Verizon has not had that control all attitude. I have had tethering and GPS application other than Verizon's and they know it. The deal with Verizon is they will not give tech support to apps that they didn't offer. In effect this is no change to the way they are presently doing things. Agreed that prior to 2008 IIRC, they did have that control attitude. The key here is Verizon free support , or not.

 

[navychop]

Perhaps the universality of GSM versus the 30% or so greater efficiency of CDMA discussion will fade away once LTE arrives. We might morph in to a true world wide standard in next generation, or the one after that.

 

[TheForce]

Bulldog- Either you just don't know or you conveniently left out a key factor in your post. Fact is, the foreign companies that offer the unlocked phones DO NOT subsidize them the way our phone companies do here in the states. The business model here is get the customer hooked into a cheap ( subsidized ) phone at very low initial investment and then make that back in a few months while continuing to charge for the investment over the remainder of the contract. While you'd have to do the math on each phone to determine the amortization of the contract, likely anyone who goes to term is, in part, subsidizing those who pay the opt out fee. The phone company breaks even on them while a term customer generates their profit. They can also attract more customers in this way who otherwise don't have the cash or credit to get into a cell phone at full MSRP.

How many here would get a new phone every year if they were paying $800 for them? Probably only if a market for good residual value phones opened up. Today the residual on a cell phone is valued just under the subsidized price.

Bottom line- there is no free ride, my friend.

 

[Peter Parker]

I wonder if this is the reason George Hotz retired from the Jailbreaking business. He claimed to have broken iPhone 4, but didn't release it. Maybe Apple gave him a few bucks to go away. His Blackra1n product was quite impressive. Now that it is legal, hopefully someone like George will come around and make it simple again.

Actually Spirit is simpler----though it seems to have shortened battery life for many users.


Of course Spirit has not yet released a 4.0 jailbreak.

 

[TheForce]

Perhaps the universality of GSM versus the 30% or so greater efficiency of CDMA discussion will fade away once LTE arrives. We might morph in to a true world wide standard in next generation, or the one after that.

The main difference between CDMA and GSM usage had more to do with population density than anything else. CDMA has certain advantages in it's propagation for the overall US geography, while GSM worked much more efficient in Europe. I agree that LTE will resolve these differences as all carriers migrate to it some day but that day will be years from now. Let's revisit this discussion in 2025 Then we'll see what reality flushes out of the theories.

 

[Bulldog]

iDEN might be outdated but CDMA is not outdated at all. Although not widely used due to licensing fees, CDMA has many advantages over GSM.

I agree with your points concerning CDMA advantages.

Both (GSM-CDMA) have their distinct own advantages; but I cannot use a Verizon phone on a Sprint network without having to purchase another phone. Unlocked GSM quad-band cell phones (850/900/1800/1900 MHz) would provide that “Free Agent” portability that I am referring to.

I don’t think and correct me if I am wrong, that unlocked CDMA phones will provide that portability within CDMA network providers.

 

[Bulldog]

Bulldog- Either you just don't know or you conveniently left out a key factor in your post. Fact is, the foreign companies that offer the unlocked phones DO NOT subsidize them the way our phone companies do here in the states. The business model here is get the customer hooked into a cheap ( subsidized ) phone at very low initial investment and then make that back in a few months while continuing to charge for the investment over the remainder of the contract. While you'd have to do the math on each phone to determine the amortization of the contract, likely anyone who goes to term is, in part, subsidizing those who pay the opt out fee. The phone company breaks even on them while a term customer generates their profit. They can also attract more customers in this way who otherwise don't have the cash or credit to get into a cell phone at full MSRP.

How many here would get a new phone every year if they were paying $800 for them? Probably only if a market for good residual value phones opened up. Today the residual on a cell phone is valued just under the subsidized price.

Bottom line- there is no free ride, my friend.

Yes Don, I am aware of the higher prices for the phones. I did not mention it because the unlocked phones that are available here in the States depending on the phone type have prices that start from a hundred dollars and up. They are not all that high of a price. I feel that with more competition for unlocked phones those prices will drop.

I know there is no free ride, but with competition we will have lower prices and more choices, for example: Outrageous AT&T data rates with locked proprietary Iphones that cost a few hundred dollars, and restrictions on applications -

If the IPhone were to be unlocked, yes it will be a higher price, but the data rates would be competitive and the user could shop around.

 

[Peter Parker]

Unfortunately the only other major GSM carrier in the US is T Mobile and wuhile they are GSM and you can use them they use different frequencies for data so you would be stuck with moving data t EDGE speeds not GSM.

 

[digiblur]

I agree with your points concerning CDMA advantages.

Both (GSM-CDMA) have their distinct own advantages; but I cannot use a Verizon phone on a Sprint network without having to purchase another phone. Unlocked GSM quad-band cell phones (850/900/1800/1900 MHz) would provide that “Free Agent” portability that I am referring to.

I don’t think and correct me if I am wrong, that unlocked CDMA phones will provide that portability within CDMA network providers.

Radio wise, there is nothing stopping you from taking a Sprint phone and using it on Verizon and vice versa. Verizon uses the cellular and PCS bands depending on their area. Sprint uses the PCS band, but all of their phones from several years back have cellular band capable radios for roaming usage. This covers the voice and data.

The only issue I could see is the newer AWS bands that is used by MetroPCS and Cricket in some areas (both CDMA companies), Verizon phones and Sprint phones would not have these bands.

This is why it was relatively easy for Alltel and VZW to merge, which made 100 times more sense than Nextel and Sprint merging. Only thing they really got out of that merger was the ability to co-locate on towers where Nextel had service and Sprint did not and vice versa.