Is my Local Installer trying to rip me off? Charging an extra $150 fee.

[rufusrex]

Help - I'm looking to get Dish installed. I stopped at a local dealer and had a nice conversation. The guy seemed extremely knowledgable and seemed to really know his stuff. However, he said he charges more than the other installers. He was upfront and didn't try to slide it in, but his fee is $150 more than if I go directly through DISH. He said the extra goes to using commerical grade cabling, all new equipment (he implied the DISH guys sometimes use refurbs) and other extras. He was very low key and not pushy but I don't know how ethical this is.

What's your opinion? Is it worth the extra money to know the installer promises an excellent job or should I roll the dice with DISH? He promises if they do it, they do it right and take the time needed. He also implied the other installers try to upsell to you when they get to your house, stating that this part or that cable is extra. I do have a rooftop antenna that I would like to use to pick up the OTA HD channels (only SD are available in my area).

What do you guys think? Is this guy trying to screw me or does a good install cost extra?

 

[Slamminc11]

if you want to pay the extra, fine, but sounds like a hefty price to pay for an install you can get for free

 

[Jordan420]

It is not a rip off if you know about the $150 fee upfront, but as Slamminc11 points out, why pay $150 for something that you can get for free?

 

[webbydude]

Just out of curiousity, what sort of extras was he trying to sell that justified the $150??????

 

[rufusrex]

Not much really - I guess just his "expertise." - I was looking at a 2 receiver, 4 room hookup, and he offered to setup an extra room or two with the 2nd output from one of the receivers. Of course, you couldn't watch different channels at the same time. My house is already wired from cable, so how difficult will this installation be? It's not like he has to snake any cables. I live near the beach so it can sometimes get windy. Do most installers use good brackets and mounts to withstand strong wind? That is really my only big concern, as well as someone botching the job and drilling holes for wires all over the place. How likely is that from a "regular" installer?? This guy only sells Dish and DirectTV, nothing else, so supposedly he know his stuff. Thanks again for any/all advice.

 

[webbydude]

I'm sorry...but $150 extra just to mirror image 2 rooms and guarantee the dish won't plop in the ocean is a bit too much.

1st of all, the install automatically carries a gurantee...from Dish! So that shoots half the argument. And hooking up 2 mirror imaged rooms...even WITH a few extra UHF remotes. Ok...I agree there it does require a certain custom charge. If nothing else, for the remotes. So...$80 - $100, perhaps.

 

[jokeworm]

Why not go with the "free" option and if you are not happy with it - call in the "expert" ... I can't see that he is offering anything that the regular installers couldn't offer.

With a Dish install you have 90 days (I think) to get them back out as many times as you need to ... free of charge ... until you are happy with the install ...

This guy would probably charge you a call-out fee each time - call it a hunch.

Ask him how long he guarantees his install for - and what he would be prepared to do if the install was not done to your satisfaction - or if you were not happy with signal levels or installation after a couple of weeks.

If i was paying $150 - i would expect them to be able to come out within a day or two at most to fix any problems I might have with his work for at least 6 months after the install ...

If he can't give you that - there is not much point paying him IMHO.

 

[rufusrex]

This guy would probably charge you a call-out fee each time - call it a hunch.

Ask him how long he guarantees his install for - and what he would be prepared to do if the install was not done to your satisfaction - or if you were not happy with signal levels or installation after a couple of weeks.

If i was paying $150 - i would expect them to be able to come out within a day or two at most to fix any problems I might have with his work for at least 6 months after the install ...

If he can't give you that - there is not much point paying him IMHO.

He did say he guarantees the install for a year and if there was a problem he would be back within 24 hours. He lives 20 minutes from my house so that might be nice. He also wanted to make sure I'd be there (vs my wife) to make sure the install was done to my satisfaction. He seemed honest, but I am just having a hard time swallowing the extra money, especially since I don't think it will be a particular difficult installation. He did ask about the layout of the house and said they would do their best to mount the dish or dishes were they would not be an eyesore. He implied DISH really doesn't make it worth there while and most of the installers do as quick a job as possible with little regard for quality. What is other peoples experience? He also said he is proud of the fact that during bad weather his installs almost always retain a strong signal. How bad can a bad install be? I mean, if it's poorly installed on the roof and there is a storm can it damage my roof?

Also, one other question. I can't get HD locals in my area, so I was going to have my roof top antenna tied into the receiver. Would those channels be tied into the programming guide and work with the DVR on a 622 or would I need to pay for the SD locals to have that functionality? Man, I hate paying $5 for something I can get for free, but seem to be considering paying $150 for something I can get for free. Strange.

 

[webbydude]

I wonder if the $150 he quoted also involves him installing a HD antenna as well? If so, then it DOES sound like a good overall price.

 

[jokeworm]

yup - I'm having a guy come out soon to install an OTA antenna and run it to three rooms in the house .. he quoted me $175 for that - so if your guy is going to tie it all in and guarantee his work for 12 months .. it might be worth the extra $$'s.

I think you would probably be happy with whoever dish sends out .. but would like the peace of mind of knowing that guy is going to take extra time to do everything exactly how you want it to be done ... as well as throw in a few things that the dish installers may not do as standard or may want to charge an extra for anyway.

Is the peace of mind and extra time he is going to take worth $150 for ya .. only you can answer that one.

.. a few years ago i would probably have said no ... but the older i get - the easier I find it is to let someone else deal with the hassle of climbing up ladders and being on call when i am not happy with something ... sure its a few extra $$'s - but how much is YOUR time worth ?

3 or four hours on a phone to dish trying to schedule a service call and trying to explain to someone who does not speak your language what exactly the problem is - is probably worth $150 alone - that's not including the work that needs to be done and everything else that goes with it ....

 

[dishcomm]

Help - I'm looking to get Dish installed. I stopped at a local dealer and had a nice conversation. The guy seemed extremely knowledgable and seemed to really know his stuff. However, he said he charges more than the other installers. He was upfront and didn't try to slide it in, but his fee is $150 more than if I go directly through DISH. He said the extra goes to using commerical grade cabling, all new equipment (he implied the DISH guys sometimes use refurbs) and other extras. He was very low key and not pushy but I don't know how ethical this is.


What's your opinion? Is it worth the extra money to know the installer promises an excellent job or should I roll the dice with DISH? He promises if they do it, they do it right and take the time needed. He also implied the other installers try to upsell to you when they get to your house, stating that this part or that cable is extra. I do have a rooftop antenna that I would like to use to pick up the OTA HD channels (only SD are available in my area).

What do you guys think? Is this guy trying to screw me or does a good install cost extra?

Pure speculation on my part.....He may be trying to get rid of you by quoting a high bid for the job...
He's not screwing anybody.You are free to choose any installer you wish..If you want to use this guy, pay his price or use somone else...
If I was in his position I would charge what the traffic will bear...These days with Dish cutting pay to their contractors it is no wonder some are going off on their own, starting instll service businesses...Quite frankly I am getting pretty tired of Dish teling me how much THEY are going ot pay me.It's my time, my materials and my talent....I expect to be compensated for that..
Anyway..good luck!...Remember, you get what you pay for..And "Caveat emptor".

 

[chadzx11]

I was not going to post anything. However 2 lines says it all:

You pay your money and you take your chances.

You get what you pay for.

Personally, I don't want anything that is free, because free is worthless.......

Also, if the guy says he is installing "commercial grade" cable, and that's what he is charging for, I would expect some quad shield to be installed, not your run of the mill cable co RG6. Your fulfillment techs are gonna use the cheapest crap they can scrap up.

 

[Mike500]

Unfotunately, a all a majority of customers care about is FREE and that it works.

If that's al you want, by all means get the FREE instal.

Very few customers are technophiles and know what a really good install is comprised of. It's not just how it looks. Sure, neatness counts. But, it's not everything.

I only do high end installs. I've got an installed base of over 500 customers, non of whom, over the past 10 years, have called me on issues of bad connectors, bad connectors or loose mounts.

The $150 might be worth it, depending on how the install is done.

 

[Stargazer]

All satellite installs require RG-6 cabling so they should all be that grade regardless of how much is paid for the install whether it is free or not.

This guy must be quoting you the $150 because he either things your a sucker or he knows what he is worth after having many others call him after his competetors or Dish Network themselves messing up several installations and at the $150 he is comfortable with charging that and is keeping busy at that price.

Dish has also reduced commissions to the retailers/installers. It is not that it would not be worth $150 to have it put in if it is done right, it is a matter of paying $150 more than what the competition is willing to do it for. You can probably have it done for free then if there is a problem you can get them to come out under the install warranty. If something goes wrong after that then you can get someone to come out cheaper than that to fix a problem. Dish Network themselves only charge $100 to come out and many local retailers may do it for cheaper.

 

[Claude Greiner]

As a dealer here is what you need to know....

#1 Yes you can use referbished equipment. The dealer makes a few extra dollars if they use referbished equipment, but the fact of the matter is that the referbished stuff is just as good as new.

If you install a new receiver and it dies after 3 days and is on a lease, they sent you a referbished one anyways. So instead of fighting new Vs Referb equipment we stock mostly referbished equipment.

622, 625, and 211's are all brand new equipment when first installed for new customers reguardless of who installs it

301, 311, 322, 522, 510 are all generally referbished equipment when installed.

311 and 322 can still be ordered brand new.

#2 As far as the cable that the installer uses, there is not much of a savings depending on the quality...

Copper coated steel RG6 Made in China is about standard today on 1000 Foot boxes of cable...

A) Upgrade to 100% Copper Center conductor + $10
B) Upgrade to 100% Copper Center Conductor made in USA + $20
C) Upgrade to 100% Copper Center Conductor Quad Shield Made in USA + $75

#3 To have a quality install done right with Made in USA 100% copper center conductor cable I can see spending an extra $50.

The new receivers VS referb aint gonna make a bit of difference. The dealer you talked to must not sell very many systems, because its very hard to find a customer willing to pay anything extra.

I used to have the same attitude several years ago that my time is worth more money than other dealers, but I make more money still doing quality work and giving it away for FREE because I sell 100 times more systems at FREE than I do charging 1 person extra.

Now I do have customers who do pay for custom installs, but they know what to expect from me and do have a choice between an innexpensive installation and a custom installation.

If you want FREE FREE FREE the Dishstore does offer free activation for all new customers

 

[rufusrex]

Thanks for all the info. He did mention he would run copper core cable to the HDTV only, and at that price wouldn't "snake" any cable in the walls, so maybe he wants the extra money without doing the extra work. My house is 11 years old and each room has a dedicated cable run, but I don't know if it's RG59 or RG6. What would they do if it was RG59? Since it's a fairly new house with dedicated cable runs, wouldn't that make his job much easier?

I agree with the saying "you get what you pay for" but on the other hand if I am paying extra and need RG6 run how else would he install it? What would a "free" install do?

One other thing that was odd, when I asked him to write it all out he wouldn't. I guess that should raise a red flag.

 

[ZandarKoad]

He can't be expected to write it all out unless he sees the job site first. After which,
he should be expected to do so. It's called a 'site survey'.

You most defenitely ARE getting something that you wouldn't be getting with the 'free' guys: your mirrored TV. If he includes a second UHF remote for that, then that covers half of his quote right there. So basically, your not paying $150 for the extra quality. You're paying $75.

But about all this quality stuff: the only advantage of solid copper over copper coated steel is this: Irrational, emotional, mental comfort. Tens of thousands of installs don't lie: copper coated steel works. Why pay more?

Perhaps if you're running in commercial applications where there is an EXCESSIVE ammount of background frequencies you may want the extre shielding provided by quad shield... but never in residential applications.

 

[webbydude]

Like I said before, if he's including the 2 mirror-imaged outlets (and UHF remotes) along with the HD antenna install, then I'd say it's worth it.

 

[bhelms]

The coax discussion is interesting. Remember that RG-6 is only a type designation and does not in any way indicate a quality level! To be sure there are all qualities of RG-6 available with the bottom probably being the Made in China types at less than 10-cents per foot and the best probably being Belden 1694A at probably over 40-cents (I never priced that type). Quality is generally meaured in loss, most significantly the signal loss at the RF frequencies of interest (expressed in dB per 100 or1000 feet). This is primarily a function of the quality of the dielectric (foam insulation) used. The ohmic loss of the conductors (center conductor and shields) affects the power transfer to the LNBs (sats) or preamps (OTA). Here the use of solid copper in the center conductor and copper braid in the shielding is most important, but for cable runs between powered equipment less than 100', this should not be a factor that will result in any noticeable difference in the results (signal strength). i.e., copper-clad steel should be quite adequate.

Having a quad shield (QS) is NOT a quality factor !!! There is a place for QS, primarily in situations where interference from other nearby sources could enter the signal path in the cable and cause a degradation in the signal quality. This would be most noticeable with analog OTA signals, and hardly a factor at all with the sat. signals or digital OTA signals. One exception is with OTA signal multipath interference that can degrade a digital OTA signal and might be picked-up in the downlead. In that case QS could be a benefit. I typically use dual shield for all my sat. feeds, and QS in situations where the cable will run close to other conductors, particularly power wiring, like in conduit, etc. I also use QS in my OTA signal paths at my house as electrical interference (electric fences) and multipath (trees and mountains) are both significant factors in my fringe area.

I was a believer that QS was always a better choice (given equal RF performance) until I read this link originally posted by Tom Bombadil (tks, Tom!):

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/quadshieldcables.php

I think in your case a decent dual shield will work for all the coax runs at any ferquency. I don't see why using coax with a solid copper conductor to the HD set could possibly make any difference in the picture quality unless you were using it to make the cables for your component connections, which quite a few folks do! (In that application low ohmic loss is important.)

If your house is wired with RG-59, that might work even for the sat. connections if the runs are relatively short. (There have been posts about this.) But if you need to do any wiring, make sure it is with RG-6 per above.

Good luck with your installation, and make sure what you are getting is matched to the requirements of your installation.

PS - I also agree wholeheartedly with Claude that refurb equipment (assuming it was diagnosed and repaired correctly if it originally had a problem, and thoroughtly checked-out in any case) is a very good choice, for several reasons. There have been other threads on this discussion as well that you could search for...

 

[Jeff003]

I had mine installed for free in August and I'm happy.I get signals in the 110s to 120s.I would not pay $150 to have it installed.Also if they have to come out after the warrenty it's only $29.