Is C-BAND still Viable alternative

[tvropro]

Yes, but aren't these all or nothing packages like cable offers for about $60 per month. My questions was why basic packages for around $20 per month and the abililty to add ala carte channels to fill out your viewing wishes are offered just on C-Band and not ku band. It seems that with most channels going digital, that would be the new trend, but it isn't.

The problem is no one wants to invest the cash to start a service on ku to do that. It takes quite a bit of money to start your own satellite delivery company. You have to buy transponder time, pay programmers, uplink and maintain the headend. This all has to be paid for by the subscribers. Now a $20.00 a month package with a few thousand subs won't cut it. C band gets away with it because they ride on the coattails of the broadcast uplinks for the most part. Thats changing rapidly since programmers dont want us to do that too much anymore. So when you pay Dish or Direct $75.00 a month your covering there costs plus giving the CEO's a nice nestegg. C band still has the best prices thats just one more reason to be with them.

 

[tdti1]

Yes, but aren't these all or nothing packages like cable offers for about $60 per month. My questions was why basic packages for around $20 per month and the abililty to add ala carte channels to fill out your viewing wishes are offered just on C-Band and not ku band. It seems that with most channels going digital, that would be the new trend, but it isn't.

SRL offered this on ku-band with the HITS feeds, HITS moved there feeds to c-band though on AMC-18. I like my c-band as when it's raining real hard I stay in and watch tv

You needed a 90cm better with a 1.2 when the HITS feeds was ku, now Skyvision sells the package with a 6' dish for AMC-18 not much bigger. You mite as well get a motorized 10' if you can.

 

[14karat]

Signal strength on G1-3 is all over the place but analog reception is steady.

K4LK - do you mean the signal is constantly bouncing (say from 10 to 60 or so?)
When I first set my dad's up his did the same thing and I couldn't get a digital lock to save my life.
A new Corotor II and LNBs fixed it. That was around $150 but at home, I'm using a $45 621 and it's working good. Tuning between C & KU is a bit flaky, but for the 4DTV, it should work fine.
If your LNBs are ancient (as my dad's C-Band only was) that is probably the culprit.

 

[harvard81]

The problem is no one wants to invest the cash to start a service on ku to do that. It takes quite a bit of money to start your own satellite delivery company. You have to buy transponder time, pay programmers, uplink and maintain the headend. This all has to be paid for by the subscribers. Now a $20.00 a month package with a few thousand subs won't cut it. C band gets away with it because they ride on the coattails of the broadcast uplinks for the most part. Thats changing rapidly since programmers dont want us to do that too much anymore. So when you pay Dish or Direct $75.00 a month your covering there costs plus giving the CEO's a nice nestegg. C band still has the best prices thats just one more reason to be with them.

Thanks for the insight. What's a reasonable cost for putting up a BUD ? Is it worth it still if broadcasters are clamping down on uplinks as you say ?

 

[tvropro]

Thanks for the insight. What's a reasonable cost for putting up a BUD ? Is it worth it still if broadcasters are clamping down on uplinks as you say ?

Prices can be from little or nothing if you scrounge a used system, to thousands of dollars new with all HD stuff etc. There is no set price anymore, It depends on how deep you want to get in the hobby. Broadcasters aren't clamping down as you say that much. ABC/ Disney /ESPN is the only one that won't really play ball with us now. This may change if we have enough subscription numbers to make it viable for them to cover the cost to the ACC , etc fees like in the past.

There is so much FTA it's mind boggling. I'm currently scanning the arc on C band programming a clients FTA receiver. I'm only about 50% done and have almost 150 free channels in there so far. Like I said I'm only around 50% done and I have left stuff out. So that gives you an idea of whats up there in just Mpeg 2, 4:2:0 free. This don't include 4:2:2, S2, DC2 etc.

If you want the ultimate get a big dish once you get into it you'll never want to turn back

 

[Cadsulfide]

The problem is no one wants to invest the cash to start a service on ku to do that. It takes quite a bit of money to start your own satellite delivery company. You have to buy transponder time, pay programmers, uplink and maintain the headend. This all has to be paid for by the subscribers. Now a $20.00 a month package with a few thousand subs won't cut it. C band gets away with it because they ride on the coattails of the broadcast uplinks for the most part. Thats changing rapidly since programmers dont want us to do that too much anymore. So when you pay Dish or Direct $75.00 a month your covering there costs plus giving the CEO's a nice nestegg. C band still has the best prices thats just one more reason to be with them.

Politics make for strange bedfellows, the attorneys at dish, direct and the cable outfits stay awake at night scheming of ways to screw each other. No need to loose sleep dreaming up ways to screw the customer, that's the easy part.

Every now and again someone in congress raises the question "Why can't the big guys provide their services "Ala Carte"? They then join forces, circle the wagons, and send an army of lobbyists and lawyers to DC to squash the suggestion.

Much harder to hide all the extra "fees" with Ala Carte, most folks only really watch 10-15 channels, no fat bonus for charlie and dave in that.

 

[Cadsulfide]

Thanks for the insight. What's a reasonable cost for putting up a BUD ? Is it worth it still if broadcasters are clamping down on uplinks as you say ?

My cost to add 10' dish, your mileage may vary;

$5 in gas at $4/gal to drive to other side of county to pick it up

Some favors used with my friends who helped, who keeps count?

$25 with shipping for a BSC421 digital c band lnb

10' long 4" steel pipe, free from a retired electrician

$30 for 6 bags quickcrete

Added the dish to an existing reciever

 

[Randomarow]

I have a 10' BUD with Drake ESR2400 & Tracker System V receivers. Currently a C Band only LNB but the cable is in place for Ku as well. Sorry to say I haven't used it for a couple of years. I'm installing a DTVPal/DVR for analog to digital conversion for local stations. Any ideas for a mashup, including MPEG for my 34" eventually to be replaced analog TV?

Thanks & Happy Thanksgiving (US).
Randomarrow

 

[14karat]

A year ago, I had nothing. I'd been working on my dad's dish and just like him, sick of E*.
Ran an ad on the local Recycle forum and got a few responses, which scored the 1st 10ft dish (which I have running now)
The 8ft (Winegard I believe) I got off eBay for shipping. It's the most "expensive" dish I have - I paid about $115 total for it, but I got 2 good actuator arms with it - which was a good thing because the arm on the 10ft had a stripped gear.
The other 10ft was $10 at the local thrift store. It came with a Venture HD 36" actuator.
Since I work for a large company, I was able to get my mounting pipe from one of our nearby mfg locations - 3.5" O.D. Sch 80 aluminum - 2 10ft sections for cost of gas to pick them up.
About $30 on concrete, $25 on ground rods, maybe $100 on cable, and $50 or so on conduit.
The 621 feedhorn was $45, CoolSat 6000 ~ $60, 920 4Dtv $76, corotor II feedhorn $60, and Sonic Voom headphones (for the AC3 decoder) $15.
I STILL NEED to run ground line which will probably hit close to $150-$200 (unless I can come up with scrap - which I'm hoping for) and invest in a good set of surge suppressors - probably another $200...
I WANT to get a good HD receiver with PVR and a satellite card for the PC.
That being said, I do not yet own a HD TV, but I hope to have a HD projector in the den before the end of the next year.
So... I guess with 3 BUDs going up, I'm going to end up at about the $1200 - $1300+ range (not including about $2200 for the projector!)
Randomarrow, get a C/Ku feedhorn and buy a FTA receiver (I vote for the CoolSat 6000 for starters.) If you want subscription channels, also get a 4Dtv receiver. If not, keep the Tracker System for your dish mover.
You really don't need anything else...

 

[truckracer]

I spend a lot of money on my 10' dish. Bought everything new. Sami 10' mesh 600.00, 36" actuator venture arm 150.00, Chaparall Orthomode feedhorn from ebay w/lnbs (norsats)80.00
concete 30.00, cable 100.00 and connectors, pansat 9200 HD 349.00 (ebay), Orb-7500 analog receiver 49.00 new .

My 7.5' system was a lot cheaper.
I feel like a made a good investment since the dish and equipment should last a long time (many years). I can watch legally free programming forever, various channels that will never be seen on mainstream cable or satellite providers.

 

[emuman100]

It's unfortunate, but 4DTV receivers are really lacking, despite what they give you access to. The whole idea of channel maps I'm not happy with. Then having one or two providers to give you authorization. That's just not how it should be.

How it should be each broadcaster should offer programming to the C band user at a reasonable price. I watch the Discovery Channel, Science Channel, History Channel, Weather channel, and Music Choice. Discovery Channel and Science Channel are part of Discovery Networks. History Channel is part of AETN. I *SHOULD* be able to order a subscription from Discovery Networks, AETN, Weather Channel, and Music Choice. If this is all I watch why can't I just order programming directly from them? Seems reasonable, right? Seems like the smart thing to do, no?

I actually can order programming directly from them, but it has to be a commercial account. I am currently a Weather Channel affiliate, and in the works with Music Choice. The downside is that this costs a crapload, though Music Choice is cheap. It has come to this that this is what I have to do to get the TV I want. My plan is to distribute the transport streams over multicast IP for a small IPTV system. I have commercial IRDs, but no ASI to IP converters yet. I have not priced Discovery or AETN subscriptions yet, but I imagine they are high. The Weather Channel cost me an aweful amount, but I can't disclose it because I'd breach my contract with them.

As with the subscription channels to my IPTV ststem, I want to adda few FTA ones which include DW-TV, Deutsche Welle Radio, PBS stuff on AMC21, ION feeds, NASA TV, PCN TV, WCPE Radio, and various wild feeds. Each multiplex requires an IRD, and if it doesn't support IP output, an ASI to IP converter. All this cost and effort for a home IPTV system which just includes the transport streams, no fancy encryption, routers, middleware, etc.
It's excessive and overboard, but it's my hobby and I enjoy it.

 

[tvropro]

It's unfortunate, but 4DTV receivers are really lacking, despite what they give you access to. The whole idea of channel maps I'm not happy with. Then having one or two providers to give you authorization. That's just not how it should be.

How it should be each broadcaster should offer programming to the C band user at a reasonable price. I watch the Discovery Channel, Science Channel, History Channel, Weather channel, and Music Choice. Discovery Channel and Science Channel are part of Discovery Networks. History Channel is part of AETN. I *SHOULD* be able to order a subscription from Discovery Networks, AETN, Weather Channel, and Music Choice. If this is all I watch why can't I just order programming directly from them? Seems reasonable, right? Seems like the smart thing to do, no?

When Videocipher scrambling started that's how it worked for the most part. You got HBO form HBO, Disney from Disney, Showtime from Showtime. As time went on there came third party packagers. There were quite a few, now there's really only two. The big programmers don't want to deal with running a back end to support subscribers anymore at a consumer level. Heck some downright refuse to pay the Acc the charges to activate the consumer data stream for us. Such as MTV networks (Viacom) when they pulled the MTV suite master feeds from us in 2007. Comcast HITS has been a big player for us as of late letting us sub to their distribution feeds for cable. I don't care for Comcast at the cable level, (way overpriced) but give them credit that there supporting the 4dtv. I guess they figure every bud subscriber is one less for Direct or Dish so more power to them.

 

[Lak7]

Comcast HITS has been a big player for us as of late letting us sub to their distribution feeds for cable.

Where do you get more info on HITS?

 

[truckracer]

Hits has a website....Headend in the sky. Do a google and it will show up. They mainly deal with small cable companies. The pizza dish companies have done a real good job by sewing up the market on both ends.

The programmers don't want to deal at the consumer level (since they don't have to). I have watched some people with small businesses that were started by grandma and grandpa get big and the new generation of family does not want to deal with the people who purchase from them. The get too "big" for their pants. This happens all the time.
The only mainstream outlets for cable type service is The two pizza pan companies and cable.
Most people don't know any better. Broadband internet services from cable companies have further secured their stake in the market.


So many people live in neighborhoods now that would not permit a large satellite antenna for tv. Even if the option was there they couldn't take it.
It's pretty sad. There are too many "middle men" in everything in this country. That's why we are in a recession now in America. By the time everybody takes their cookies off the top - the products or services are so expensive everyone has to struggle to afford them.

 

[tvropro]

Where do you get more info on HITS?

HITS Quantum - Digital Cable Solutions from Comcast Media Center

 

[Lak7]

http://www.comcastmediacenter.com/hits-quantum/

HITS Quantum - Digital Cable Solutions from Comcast Media Centerhttp://www.comcastmediacenter.com/hits-quantum/

http://www.comcastmediacenter.com/hits-quantum/http://www.comcastmediacenter.com/hits-quantum/
I've seen that.
But do you just call them up and ask to subscribe?

 

[tvropro]

I've seen that.
But do you just call them up and ask to subscribe?

If your going to set up a commercial account for resale on a cable system call HITS direct. If you want the feeds offered for a 4DTV for your own personal use call SRL or NPS.

 

[Lak7]

I misunderstood, I read it as you could go direct to Comcast to Sub on C Band.

 

[jcbender]

hey guys i would like to put my two cents in . after years of big dish tv a house fire in 2002 forced me to dish network for two years terrible picture espically when i needed tv the most during snowstorms, high winds ,thunderstorms etc. after rebuilding the house the first thing i did was buy a 4dtv 922 i just love it . i can get many hbo channels for under 20 a month the rest is gravy the 4dtv moves the dish for fta then goes back to gal 1 each night for the wife and grandkids the money i save each month will go towards fta hd reciever i may never get a hd tv i am older disabled vet but my sony 480i still gets a damm good picture on my 8 ft spun dish what i see in the stores is not much better please excuse my typeing love this web site God Bless all of you peacefull holidays to all jaycee

 

[truckracer]

Welcome to our site. Glad to have you. Thank You for your service to all of us and this great Country we live in. Without the dedication of the Veterans we could not sit her and type on this forum.

I do agree with you on the picture quality of C-band. That spun aluminum dish you have is a jewel. Those have great reception and accurate surfaces for ku.

As time has moved on earlier in the post I mentioned how the equipment available to us C-band folks is getting surpassed by newer services. For the average user- most of them now days want every channel HD and with some type of PVR or Tivo.

I am afraid these items are making c-band even more un-attractive. Not to mention the numerous housing associations that won't allow homeowners to have them.

FTA and 4DTV are great to me!

someday I hope you can get an HD tv. They will be a lot cheaper in the future when all the Hoopla ....blows over.

Most of the FTA HD receivers will still work with your 480i TV.
They will down convert the HD channels which means you can still watch them in SD.