Iraq (a try to have some meanningful conversation...)
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how about this, Let's talk about flowers 
I want to keep iraq far from my mind right now as i can possably put it
I want to keep iraq far from my mind right now as i can possably put it
I'm willing to discuss this issue with other veterans. I served in the Gulf War, East Timor (INTERFET '99), and various training and humanitarian assistance operations during the 80s.
"There has long been speculation that the insurgency, which has so far taken more than twenty-three hundred American lives......"
2300 people have died in the War over 3 years. Big deal. In 2004 we lost over 38,000 Americans in automobile accidents http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/
This war in terms of casualties is still a slam Dunk. If we stay there another 10 years and lose even more its still a great victory IMO.
2300 people have died in the War over 3 years. Big deal. In 2004 we lost over 38,000 Americans in automobile accidents http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/
This war in terms of casualties is still a slam Dunk. If we stay there another 10 years and lose even more its still a great victory IMO.
The bloodbath occurs daily in iraq for both soldiers who arent allowed to win, and citizens who never wanted us there in the first place.
the next blood bath will be the republican congress people massacred at the polls because Bush led them to slaughter.......
Time is wasting, that just means more deaths ands Bush appears detached from reality.
Sooner or later we will find our leader a draft evader himself has been on the booze bottle.
A sad time in american history. Hopefully just like Vietnam the publics pressure and coming revolt at the polls will keep it from happening again, at least in my lifetime, I am 49.
When you cant win a war, its time to admit defeat and go home
the next blood bath will be the republican congress people massacred at the polls because Bush led them to slaughter.......
Time is wasting, that just means more deaths ands Bush appears detached from reality.
Sooner or later we will find our leader a draft evader himself has been on the booze bottle.
A sad time in american history. Hopefully just like Vietnam the publics pressure and coming revolt at the polls will keep it from happening again, at least in my lifetime, I am 49.
When you cant win a war, its time to admit defeat and go home
vurbano said:"There has long been speculation that the insurgency, which has so far taken more than twenty-three hundred American lives......"
2300 people have died in the War over 3 years. Big deal. In 2004 we lost over 38,000 Americans in automobile accidents http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/
This war in terms of casualties is still a slam Dunk. If we stay there another 10 years and lose even more its still a great victory IMO.
You discount the toll on the survivors the sons fathers and husband who only come home in a coffin. Plus you ignore the 10 of thousands of innocent iraquis who die or lose body parts, arent they the ones we went to save? Let alone the mental harm to returning american soldiers.
Heck its one thing if you win, but just like vietnam we are in a war of attrition.
the coming congressional election is a slam dunk for the democrats provided they dont do something stupid
As Vurbano said, about 38,000 people are killed in traffic accidents each year. Something like 15,000 people are murdered. That's over 50,000 deaths each and every year. Yet nobody wants to stop driving or lock themselves in their home for safety. When we reach the point where we are unwilling to accept any deaths in combat we may reach the point where we will no longer have a country since all battles cannot be won with air power or other means alone.
I'll say it again-our mistake was not declaring war on all countries that support Islamic terrorism immediately after 9/11. Many of them would not have fought-they would have cooperated and turned over terrorist cells. But, if we had done it that way I don't think you would see support eroding like it is now.
I'll say it again-our mistake was not declaring war on all countries that support Islamic terrorism immediately after 9/11. Many of them would not have fought-they would have cooperated and turned over terrorist cells. But, if we had done it that way I don't think you would see support eroding like it is now.
Bob Haller said:
You actually think this election is going to be a slam dunk for the democrats. They may win some seats but not enough to get control back.
The Democrats need to stand for something, (other than being against Bush) before getting congress back is even a remote possibility for them.
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BrianMis said:
True-it's a long time until November, but Bush has to get very smart in the meantime.
How about getting some good reporters to go in as "imbeds" like in the beginning of the war? You always get good honest reporting then because they are living the war and seeing it through the eyes of the guys there.
I also think we need to go on the offensive more often like we did recently north of Baghdad. This forces the media to report on what you ARE doing rather than sit around and make things up.
BrianMis said:
I agree! Since the Republicans, and Bush, are so terribly evil, the worst politicians in history, criminals, etc., the Democrats should easily win back a majority in both the House and Senate! But I doubt they will. The Republican haters would have you think the end is near for the Republicans hold on power, but I seriously don't think the Dems can win on a platform of hate.
Someone should set up a poll: Will the Democrats regain control of both the House and Senate, since the Republicans are so evil? Close the poll after a week or so, and then we can revisit it, after the elections!
Tom in TX
This article has a good point... it is kind of hard to see, but it is there.
He mentions the truth. The truth about why EVERYONE in the world thought Saddam had WMD's. Because he lied about them. I have mentioned this before in other threads when debating the lefties on the War. Saddam lied to everyone around him. His top officials, and generals believed that there were WMD's. Saddam even had documentation of the none existing weapons. Of course being Saddam, the one's who would know about the weapons, (Secret Military officials and scientists), were scared for their lives to say anything. So come war time Everyone believed that Iraq has WMD's, because that is the illusion he gave us. He wanted us to know he had WMD's, so he made sure it happened, what more needs to be said? The presidents staff, Pentagon, Great Britian and their Intelligence, and all of Congress believes it. Unfortunately, the journalist words it right so that it is easy to miss. He makes it seem like that even though the intelligence was there for us to believe he had WMD's, because there were none it was still wrong. By the way, all other biased journalists have admitted the same thing, but will not apologize to the President for undermining him, or blast this "News" on the front pages.
So after he explains all of this TRUTH, in the next paragraph he says that the Bush administration is still not able to come to terms about exposing an "error". Unbelievable! This is just another example of pure liberal biased journalism at its finest.
He mentions the truth. The truth about why EVERYONE in the world thought Saddam had WMD's. Because he lied about them. I have mentioned this before in other threads when debating the lefties on the War. Saddam lied to everyone around him. His top officials, and generals believed that there were WMD's. Saddam even had documentation of the none existing weapons. Of course being Saddam, the one's who would know about the weapons, (Secret Military officials and scientists), were scared for their lives to say anything. So come war time Everyone believed that Iraq has WMD's, because that is the illusion he gave us. He wanted us to know he had WMD's, so he made sure it happened, what more needs to be said? The presidents staff, Pentagon, Great Britian and their Intelligence, and all of Congress believes it. Unfortunately, the journalist words it right so that it is easy to miss. He makes it seem like that even though the intelligence was there for us to believe he had WMD's, because there were none it was still wrong. By the way, all other biased journalists have admitted the same thing, but will not apologize to the President for undermining him, or blast this "News" on the front pages.
So after he explains all of this TRUTH, in the next paragraph he says that the Bush administration is still not able to come to terms about exposing an "error". Unbelievable! This is just another example of pure liberal biased journalism at its finest.
Tom in TX said:
Amen! The last election was an election based on hate. I would debate Dems that were pure out and out Angry! And what happened? They lost more seats. And they will continue to until they get a policy that gives us intelligent plans, and hope for the future. Humans are naturally programed for wanting to do better, not be pissed off and angry all the time. So all this doom and gloom, the world is ending crap, only helps the Republicans.
I remember after Bush won in 04, the PEST. Post Election Selection Trauma. There were literally a lot of far lefty liberals working in campaigns for the dems that needed counseling after losing in races in 04. Remember how some of them were even saying that they were going to move to Canada?! Two actually committed suicide! Don't tell me the the far lefties are "kooks"!
vurbano said:
I suppose that would be considered a success to you as well. Also, you cannot compare lives lost in Iraq to automobile accidents. Apples and oranges my friend.
vurbano said:"There has long been speculation that the insurgency, which has so far taken more than twenty-three hundred American lives......"
2300 people have died in the War over 3 years. Big deal. In 2004 we lost over 38,000 Americans in automobile accidents http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/
This war in terms of casualties is still a slam Dunk. If we stay there another 10 years and lose even more its still a great victory IMO.
Be careful using that logic. You just said "big deal 2300 sons and daughters aren't coming home". I doubt you would make the same comparison about the 2900 lost on September 11. I find it disturbing how you can nonchalantly say "...lose even more its still a great victory".
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