Installing FTA as a part time gig?

[Mr Tony]

They do work? I recall a known member'Iceberg' with this quote "you can use the receiver to get 97W but you need a 30" or larger dish and linear LNB. Those pizza dishes have the wrong LNB type and are too small". So now my question is if a dishnetwork dish can be used to catch 97W, which dish would it be because I didn't know dishnetwork had dishes big as 30 inches.
A pic of the dish would be nice if possible thanks.
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we're talking about 2 different things here

The "normal" dish network dishes are 20" round or 23x20" and have circular polarity LNB's

Superdishes (Dish doesnt make them anymore) are 36x20 and have one linear LNB (and 2 circular). Dish use to utilize 2 satellites (105 & 121) that required a linear LNB. Dish still uses 121 for some business items and now the Racetrack Network and those LNB's will work for free to air for the stronger signals out there. A round (eggshaped) 30" dish would work better for weaker signals

 

[jerzstyle00]

we're talking about 2 different things here

The "normal" dish network dishes are 20" round or 23x20" and have circular polarity LNB's

Superdishes (Dish doesnt make them anymore) are 36x20 and have one linear LNB (and 2 circular). Dish use to utilize 2 satellites (105 & 121) that required a linear LNB. Dish still uses 121 for some business items and now the Racetrack Network and those LNB's will work for free to air for the stronger signals out there. A round (eggshaped) 30" dish would work better for weaker signals

Thanks for clearing it up big man.Just curious...is that your real pic bro or is that just another bad ass dude?

 

[jerzstyle00]

If someone can explain to me why dish size matters when aiming for a satelite especially when a few inches can make a big difference? For example, if im interested in 97W, why would I need to have at least a 30'' dish to catch it compared to a 22'' dish that cannot catch it? How does that 10''make such a huge impact when it comes to aiming thousands of miles away?

As for 97W,what is the least dish size I need to catch that sat from down here in texas?(I know Iceberg is like i told you already 30'' but I was just curious to see if i can catch it with say a 28'').

Would it make a difference in dish size if I were cathing it from up north say NJ?

 

[Mr Tony]

The KU satellites are at lower power than a DBS satellite. That is why you need a larger dish. In some cases a 30" may not be enough depending on a couple things
the power of thew satellite
the power of the uplink

wiki has a good comparison between KU & DBS

Segments in most of The Americas are represented by ITU Region 2 from 11.7 to 12.2 GHz (Local Oscillator Frequency (LOF) 10.750 GHz), allocated to the FSS (fixed service satellite), uplink from 14.0 to 14.5 GHz. There are more than 22 FSS Ku band satellites orbiting over North America, each carrying 12 to 48 transponders, 20 to 120 watts per transponder, and requiring a 0.8-m to 1.5-m antenna for clear reception.

The 12.2 to 12.7 GHz (LOF 11.250 GHz) segment is allocated to the BSS (broadcasting satellite service). BSS (DBS direct broadcast satellites) normally carry 16 to 32 transponders of 27 MHz bandwidth running at 100 to 240 watts of power, allowing the use of receiver antennas as small as 18 inches (450 mm).

so when you're working with possibly a 1/12 of the power of a DBS satellite that is why you need a bigger dish.

Can you get some of the stronger KU transponders with a 20" dish? heck yeah its been done numerous times on the board. I've been able to get a few stronger signals with a 18" dish and a KU LNB....not much to write home about but it does work. A good example was the Azteca channels on 93W. They were strong enough that a few folks here used 18" dishes for them. Most of the channels in that group (there were 4) are gone now.
Is it reliable? Depends on signal and location. If you have a signal barely about threshold (where it starts to pixelate) a cloud cover may knock it out.

 

[avg1joe]

Check out this thread for some pictures of the dish I'm talking about:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/172629-123w-125w-super-dish-network-24x34.html

The dish can be used without modification if you only hit one satellite with the on-center lnbf. Is it as good as a dish made for fta? Probably not but you can't argue with free. If you were pursuing my original suggestion I'd suggest charging an amount for the box and the dish would be "free". This would allow for a dish upgrade later.

Satellite tv is addictive. Give them a little satellite crack for a low price and get them hooked.

 

[jerzstyle00]

The KU satellites are at lower power than a DBS satellite. That is why you need a larger dish. In some cases a 30" may not be enough depending on a couple things
the power of thew satellite
the power of the uplink

wiki has a good comparison between KU & DBS



so when you're working with possibly a 1/12 of the power of a DBS satellite that is why you need a bigger dish.

Can you get some of the stronger KU transponders with a 20" dish? heck yeah its been done numerous times on the board. I've been able to get a few stronger signals with a 18" dish and a KU LNB....not much to write home about but it does work. A good example was the Azteca channels on 93W. They were strong enough that a few folks here used 18" dishes for them. Most of the channels in that group (there were 4) are gone now.
Is it reliable? Depends on signal and location. If you have a signal barely about threshold (where it starts to pixelate) a cloud cover may knock it out.

Ok from what your saying, it seems that it may be possible to catch some channels from 97W using a smaller dish? If thats the case, I have what you call 'pizza dish'laying around in the garage.It has a 110/119 Pro LNB attached which I guess is useless since I need a linear LNB for 97W. I also have a kbox and infusion laying around as well which I can use which only leaves me without a linear LNB which I can try to catch from craigslist or sales site.. So now my question becomes...from your experience, what percentage of 97W channels would you think I can catch using this DN pizza dish?(I think 20-22')

I'd really like to try this out and make sure I can catch this sat with my stb's before spending the money to buy a 30'' dish.What do you think?

 

[avg1joe]

If you are learning, I wouldn't start there.

 

[jerzstyle00]

If you are learning, I wouldn't start there.

How or where would you recommend I start then?

 

[Mr Tony]

What avg1joe means is get a 30" dish to start with...then when you get the hang of it, then tinker with the smaller dishes

Unless you have lots of patience and time and want to try to use a undersized dish I would start with what we know works...a 30" dish

If you can find a Primestar dish they're usually free and would work too

 

[Tron]

If someone can explain to me why dish size matters when aiming for a satelite especially when a few inches can make a big difference? For example, if im interested in 97W, why would I need to have at least a 30'' dish to catch it compared to a 22'' dish that cannot catch it? How does that 10''make such a huge impact when it comes to aiming thousands of miles away?

A relatively small increase in the diameter of a dish translates into a much larger than expected increase in the surface area.

Also, the larger a dish is, the greater its ability is to reject signals from adjacent satellites. If, for example, you are trying to tune in a signal from 97W at 11720 mhz, and there's a transponder operating on 99W at that same frequency and polarity, a smaller dish will see the signal from both satellites at the same time, causing interference and a loss of signal quality.

 

[avg1joe]

What is your current skill level? Have you ever successfully tuned in a satellite with a ku linear lnbf? Start with a dish at least as large as the super dish, about 30" in at least one direction. You can eat soup with a fork but you wouldn't recommend it as the way to go.

The kbox and nfusion have a reputation as hacker boxes so they may not be as user friendly for fta. I've heard the kbox is a cousin of the coolsat so you might try that one first. People here tend to have more experience with coolsat, pansat, visionsat, traxis, etc. Other people will have to comment on what the best boxes are now for what you are trying to do. The last time I knew the visionsat (also known as coolsat 7100) was a popular favorite for ease of use and recording capability when you add an external hard drive.

I hadn't looked at prices recently. Finding used boxes as cheap as $25 will be harder than I implied.

 

[jerzstyle00]

What is your current skill level? Have you ever successfully tuned in a satellite with a ku linear lnbf? Start with a dish at least as large as the super dish, about 30" in at least one direction. You can eat soup with a fork but you wouldn't recommend it as the way to go.

The kbox and nfusion have a reputation as hacker boxes so they may not be as user friendly for fta. I've heard the kbox is a cousin of the coolsat so you might try that one first. People here tend to have more experience with coolsat, pansat, visionsat, traxis, etc. Other people will have to comment on what the best boxes are now for what you are trying to do. The last time I knew the visionsat (also known as coolsat 7100) was a popular favorite for ease of use and recording capability when you add an external hard drive.

I hadn't looked at prices recently. Finding used boxes as cheap as $25 will be harder than I implied.

I'd say my current skill level compared to you guys in my opinion is wayy below as Im still trying to grasp which fta equipment works with each other,how dish sizes matter etc...I have re-aimed my sat a few months back one-time to a different sat but thats about it.But im learning new things everyday thanks to you guys

 

[jerzstyle00]

Im currently trying to decide on a dish and LNB to purchase through ebay.So far I have two Im looking at.

This one was pretty cheap($16) but a high shipping fee but total still comes out to only $76 compared to #2.
1) 36" SATELLITE FTA DTV HDTV TV DISH ANTENNA / LNB 33 39 - eBay (item 250669453713 end time Jul-22-10 19:57:30 PDT)

This one is marked $60 but only $35 shipping as total comes out to $95.
2) 36" / 90cm Free To Air FTA Satellite Dish and .4 LNBF - eBay (item 110433609885 end time Aug-06-10 17:35:00 PDT)

They both seem to look similar package wise.Is there a reason why #1 is much cheaper then #2?
If not , I'll save me $20 and go with item #1.

 

[Mr Tony]

Well #1 is a no name dish whereas #2 is actually a very high quality dish. SatelliteAV is a sponsor here (check the top of the page) so you know what you're getting. A fair amount of us use the 2nd dish you posted (me included)

#1 is in Canada so who knows when you'll get it

 

[rv1pop]

Well #1 is a no name dish whereas #2 is actually a very high quality dish. SatelliteAV is a sponsor here (check the top of the page) so you know what you're getting. A fair amount of us use the 2nd dish you posted (me included)

#1 is in Canada so who knows when you'll get it

Yes, #1 is from Canada and probaly does not include customs fees, although with the higher shipping it might. Also it does not have braces on the LNB arm, SO: I would not touch it let alone order it.
POP

 

[truckracer]

Most people are not really interested in FTA because you have to maintain your own equipment and channel cone and go. That's why pizza dishes became mainstream for the mos part. You can have cable lime services out in the middle of nowhere and someone comes to fix it if it breaks or you move.

FTA I definitely a clique of techies like us but it's not for the mainstream.