Installer Refused Install Due To No Ground Available

[Broe67]

Thing is the dish is not being installed up high, it's going on a wall inside a atrium and will poke up above the lower edge of that roof about a foot. It might be best to not ground at all. I've seen hundreds of dishes over the years with no ground. My only worry is static build up from wind frying a LNB or receiver.

I had a friend that was down in his basement watching tv during a Thunderstorm. He stated that when the Lightning struck their house. He said that you could see it the electricity flow around the Copper that had been placed between the bottom plate and Concrete foundation.

He said that it looked like a Jacob's Ladder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackob's_ladder_(engineering)#Visual_entertainment He said that they ended up losing some things like some phones, an answering machine, the microwave, but no tv's, due to they were all grounded to the electrical ground, along with the TV antenna on the mast next to the house.

 

[Broe67]

The phone and cable are grounded to the inside electrical panel where the unit's phone and cable sub boxes are (inside Garage I think) If they wanted to they could run the cable to that inside, ground it and then run to the tv. But U supposed DirecTV wants to be totally retarded about it and only ground outside.

Sounds like I am going to have to make the 350mi trip and install it myself.

What do I need to tell them to tell DirecTV to send them a free dish or get a installer to leave a dish because I know they're not going to buy one from SolidSignal for $100 nor should they have to just because of rediculas narrow minded robotic non thinker policies.

When I install it I'm just going to get one of those ground plug adapters I posted above to connect a ground block to. If I can't find it locally I think I'll just get one of these reg plug ends http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-15-Am...with-Black-Metal-Clamp-Orange-18191/203713428 and just run a green ground wire into it connected to the ground prong.

You cannot use an electrical plug as a ground point for the dish.

It needs to be bonded with #10 to the electrical ground rod.

 

[TheTechGuru]

Decided to just leave it ungrounded like the hundreds of dishes I've seen over the years.


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[TheTechGuru]

I had a friend that was down in his basement watching tv during a Thunderstorm. He stated that when the Lightning struck their house. He said that you could see it the electricity flow around the Copper that had been placed between the bottom plate and Concrete foundation.

He said that it looked like a Jacob's Ladder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackob's_ladder_(engineering)#Visual_entertainment He said that they ended up losing some things like some phones, an answering machine, the microwave, but no tv's, due to they were all grounded to the electrical ground, along with the TV antenna on the mast next to the house.

Well that's the complete opposite of what I've experienced. As I posted earlier after a hit to a nearby tree all grounded stuff got fried and the non grounded sat system was fine.

It all depends on where it hits and most of the time it's a nearby tall tree or utility pole or cell tower.


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[Broe67]

Decided to just leave it ungrounded like the hundreds of dishes I've seen over the years.


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Do you have any way to bond to a cold water pipe inside the unit? The ground does not have to be outside. It can be inside at your Sub-Panel, or on a Cold Water line, that as long as it is Copper all the way out to the shutoff for the utility, it counts as a ground. If you have a Ufer ground (basically rebar in the concrete pad is your ground)?

Just run the Coax with the ground wire from the dish to the static block. Connect the ground wire to the dish and to the static block. Then continue the ground wire inside to either way as I stated above.

Grounding inside is still code. The Satellite companies do not like it, but it is still Proper under the NEC.

 

[raoul5788]

Grounding to the cold water feed is supposed to be within 5 feet of the water service entrance.

 

[Broe67]

Grounding to the cold water feed is supposed to be within 5 feet of the water service entrance.

There is an exception in this case, when you do not have a outdoor ground. Most incoming services, such as Telephone, will ground to the cold water pipe where they enter the building.

As long as the Cold Water pipe is not mixed with PEX, CPVC, or HDPE as soon as the line leaves the building to the main or shutoff at the curb, there is a little leeway in these kind of cases.

You will never find a telephone line grounded within five feet of the water service entrance, in most older structures. Usually it is 10-20 feet from it. Keep in mind that the electrical panel is supposed to be bonded to the water pipe, so it does allow for you to use the Cold Water pipe in these kind of cases.

It is something that has been argued a lot with people, when they go through the NEC or Electrical trade classes. I grew up in an household that my father was a Radio Man in the Air Force, and worked for the Telephone company. Also my mother's father owned one of the largest construction firms in Illinois, that also did work in Iowa, Indiana & Michigan. I grew up with codes being drilled into my head, along with being taught the dangers of working with electrical and in the building trades. Add to that with serving in the Navy, dealing with Electrical and communication systems.

You and i both know what the NEC states, but there is also a little bit of leeway as I stated before, in these kind of circumstances.

 

[Broe67]

Well that's the complete opposite of what I've experienced. As I posted earlier after a hit to a nearby tree all grounded stuff got fried and the non grounded sat system was fine.

It all depends on where it hits and most of the time it's a nearby tall tree or utility pole or cell tower.


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Every Lightning strike is different. Like they state. Lightning never strikes twice in the same place. Also it never behaves the same way when it strikes different places at different times.

 

[Broe67]

Chip, I think in the best interest for everyone on this Semi-Attached condo. Is to sink a Ground rod at that condo, then bury a #6 or even #4 from the ground rod, to the main ground rod at the other end. It would probably be best if they did the same at each condo, then give each owner a bonding block on their unit. That way we are code compliant, and there is no argument or having the tech walk away from the job. Because there is no ground point where the condo owner wants their dish, Internet, catv, telephone at their unit, not in the closet.

Or just get with the other owners, and go with a MDU setup, and call it done. Then if more then one condo owner wants DirecTV, we have it correct, no having to band-aid a fix for not having a local ground, and the whole system is compliant.

The OP just needs to get with the board and the other residents, either through a online Skype chat, or with having a third party act in behalf of this party, who is locally where the condo is at.

 

[sean427812]

Grounding the system is not required for DirecTV to work your TV does want to grounded if possible system will work without speaking as a technician I think the tech was just being lazy


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[Broe67]

Grounding the system is not required for DirecTV to work your TV does want to grounded if possible system will work without speaking as a technician I think the tech was just being lazy. Posted Via The FREE SatelliteGuys Reader App!

Incorrect. Grounding is required per local ordinances and the NEC.

 

[sean427812]

Did not say would not be required to ground I was saying you can work with out a ground


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[Joe Diamond]

Chip, I think in the best interest for everyone on this Semi-Attached condo. Is to sink a Ground rod at that condo, then bury a #6 or even #4 from the ground rod, to the main ground rod at the other end. It would probably be best if they did the same at each condo, then give each owner a bonding block on their unit. That way we are code compliant, and there is no argument or having the tech walk away from the job. Because there is no ground point where the condo owner wants their dish, Internet, catv, telephone at their unit, not in the closet.

Or just get with the other owners, and go with a MDU setup, and call it done. Then if more then one condo owner wants DirecTV, we have it correct, no having to band-aid a fix for not having a local ground, and the whole system is compliant.

The OP just needs to get with the board and the other residents, either through a online Skype chat, or with having a third party act in behalf of this party, who is locally where the condo is at.

About the back bonding.....you need a ground rod every ten feet all the way back to the original main bond.....pretty sure about the 10 ft...very sure about the addl rods.

+

IF the condo has been wired for cable you can use that system to distribute sat feed & you don't need a dish for every unit......MDU (Multiple Dwelling Unit) contractors can rig a series of multiswitches and or SWM & splitters to serve all from one dish.

Do talk to your neighbors & the condo board.

Joe

 

[TheTechGuru]

Can't use the existing cable wiring because have to be able to have cable internet and directv at the same time. No way I am aware of to diplex that.


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[Broe67]

Did not say would not be required to ground I was saying you can work with out a ground.

You are correct that it will. But if the dish becomes electrified, someone touches it, or if say Lightning strikes it. There is no path to ground. Any voltage would go through the coax, then fry any equipment attached. It can also fry the SWM. If anything is grounded, then the return path would be all means available for the voltage to try and find a path to leave.

That could mean that if you touch any metal of the system, you become a conductor. If say the coax is attached to any equipment, and say you have the phone line or ethernet attached, those now become a means for a return path for that current to try and seek a means to find Earth.

 

[Broe67]

You are correct on that. I see no problem with doing the ground rods at each unit, spaced 10-12 feet apart. Probably better to just go with the MDU setup. That way if anyone else wants Direct, you already have the means of delivery.

Of course you run into those situations where you have some old lawyer or someone that is stuck in the old ways on the HOA board, that starts to get scared about having two providers, or due to mental conditions, a board member or board members, may think that this is going to cause a problem with having both, and not really understand how you can have two providers at the same time to the building.

It comes down to education, education, education. I think that now we are all on the same page, and in the same agreement of the best route for everyone in that building to go.

The OP really does not have to be there for this to be done. They would just need to appoint someone by proxy, to act on their behalf, to go in front of the HOA board if there is one, to go over this plan, in how to make this work, so they can have DirecTV, even though others may not.

It is just the idea that everyone will think of, is who is going to pay for the materials to do the ground bond across the back or front, and how would it blend into the building, so as not to be easily seen (ie conduit that the wire may be inside of to protect it from damage).

When we moved into this place. The telephone & catv were on the South side of the house. The Electrical entrance was on the West side. The cable line was grounded on the West side, but they ran the coax all the way about half way down the South side, to where it entered where the antenna that was still attached to the house. The telephone NID, had its ground on the cold water pipe for the Kitchen faucet.

I ended up moving both of those services to the West side of the house, where the Electrical service was, so I could ground it to the ground rod for electrical. I still have to move the Comcast ground for our Internet, to a split bolt on the ground wire, that attaches to the ground rod. DirecTV was able to bury their ground, attach to the ground wire with a split bolt, due to it was not the middle of Winter, unlike Comcast.

 

[Tyralak]

The fact that anyone at all voted for the first option is disturbing to say the least.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Choose bonding to the main electric ground rod. Grounding and bonding are different things.

Joe