Installer Refused Install Due To No Ground Available

[TheTechGuru]

That sets up a separate field. Not good.
I found this on another forum..
When you say "in place of", if you mean "in stead of", the answer is "NO"! It may work for a while under perfect situations, but you will find times when your electrical equipment will not work properly,and most important, it is dangerous. This could cause equipment damage, electric shock, or death.

The role of the neutral conductor is three fold:

(1) the neutral carries the difference or balance of current between the two hot legs. For example, if leg A has 50 amps, and leg B has 40 amps, then the neutral will have 10 amps.

(2) the neutral conductor is bonded to the earth or ground at the source only for personal protection purposes and in case of lightning strikes.

(3) the neutral conductor keeps the voltage of all 120 volt circuits steady. The ground rod only will have a resistance that will vary with ground moisture, dryness, etc. Some lights will get dim while other lights will get bright. Some incandescent light bulbs will "blow". Some electric motors will slow down while others will get faster. Because voltages will get low and then high, all electric appliances rated at 110 or 120 will be damaged eventually.

If you try to use the ground rod only without a neutral conductor from main panel to power source, then all neutral current will seek for a path back to the source through the earth and every other source it can find. You will begin to receive shocks around the house. Sometimes it may be slight tingles while other times it may be severe.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130914073527AApSHje

Yes I do agree with this, IMHO no ground is better than a separate ground.

All this talk in this thread just reminded me my personal system is not grounded, oops. In my defense it was freezing cold out when I installed it here, lol. Mine's installed right by my electric meter so I have no excuse, lol.

 

[Tyralak]

I don't think D* uses Private Contractors.

A Private Contractor would have to be on thier dime I believe.

There are a LOT of independent contractors and retailers for D*.

 

[Tyralak]

why didn't the installer just go get a copper rod from Home Depot or Lowe's? That's what I did for mine when he couldn't reach the BreakerBox.

Because that isn't code, unless that ground rod is bonded to the house ground.

 

[TheTechGuru]

There are a LOT of independent contractors and retailers for D*.

I remember when my SL5 was installed around 2006, a guy in a pick up installed it and no did not ground it, did not even use a meter, used the beep, and complained that I would not let him use any existing coax.

 

[Joe Diamond]

I remember when my SL5 was installed around 2006, a guy in a pick up installed it and no did not ground it, did not even use a meter, used the beep, and complained that I would not let him use any existing coax.

As an installer I would inspect visible existing coax and use it. Old or questionable fittings would be changed out. Existing cable was always part of the installation. Any cable use over 100 feet was a custom charge. Since the installer has to guarantee the installation for an excess amount of time why worry about the coax?

I did have a guy ask me to leave him a box (1000.00 ft of single rg 6) just in case he decided to cut down the trees and order an installation. I offered to sell him a roll for much more than he could purchase it as the local big box.

joe

 

[Joe Diamond]

I thought MasTec was AKA DirecTV's in-house? By private contractor I mean independent dealer that uses their own pick up truck. I know they exist because there are ads on CL of those kind hiring.

There is DirecTV..............MASTEC is a large company with DirecTV as one of its customers. MASTEC does some installations using its own employees (rare) but also subcontracts to smaller installation companies. Sometimes this subcontract things goes down another level. Each level skims a little to handle the paperwork. MASTEC is one of several Home Service Providers (HSPs) that DirecTV looks to for installation services.

Also, DirecTV has begun using its own employees as installers. I think they have also taken over all sales.

All this varies from market to market.

Joe

 

[TheTechGuru]

As an installer I would inspect visible existing coax and use it. Old or questionable fittings would be changed out. Existing cable was always part of the installation. Any cable use over 100 feet was a custom charge. Since the installer has to guarantee the installation for an excess amount of time why worry about the coax?
joe

Because I was using the existing coax for over the air.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Because I was using the existing coax for over the air.

Ah, that changes things. IF there is a cable in service you get to pick. Diplexers will give you what you want on the same line. One connects to both the TV antenna and the DirecTV dish. The signals will use the same cable without interference with each other. At the other end another diplexer separates the signals so you connect one to the output to the receiver (IRD) and the other output to the TV antenna port. Theses things look like splitters but work differently. Do not use them with cable internet.

Still, there is not enough money offered to run much cable. Not enough money for the labor; not enough for the materials. Long drive are out of the question. The pick up guy was probably way down the subcontractor food chain.

Joe

 

[Broe67]

The only way to really do it. Is to place a ground rod at aprox. equal spots across the back, and then bond each rod back to the first one. Then you would have a proper grounding point. The other way to do it. Is run #6 connected to the main ground rod, attached across the building in conduit, and have a grounding block point at each point on the back of the building, or front, depending on what utility will be installed at that location, so that communication providers have a ground point.

I would say that if she owns the condo. Get everyone together and seek out an electrician, that can provide Ground Bonding points across the back of the building or front, that allows Telephone, CATV, Satellite a grounding point.

 

[TheTechGuru]

The phone and cable are grounded to the inside electrical panel where the unit's phone and cable sub boxes are (inside Garage I think) If they wanted to they could run the cable to that inside, ground it and then run to the tv. But U supposed DirecTV wants to be totally retarded about it and only ground outside.

Sounds like I am going to have to make the 350mi trip and install it myself.

What do I need to tell them to tell DirecTV to send them a free dish or get a installer to leave a dish because I know they're not going to buy one from SolidSignal for $100 nor should they have to just because of rediculas narrow minded robotic non thinker policies.

When I install it I'm just going to get one of those ground plug adapters I posted above to connect a ground block to. If I can't find it locally I think I'll just get one of these reg plug ends http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-15-Am...with-Black-Metal-Clamp-Orange-18191/203713428 and just run a green ground wire into it connected to the ground prong.

 

[Joe Diamond]

The phone and cable are grounded to the inside electrical panel where the unit's phone and cable sub boxes are (inside Garage I think) If they wanted to they could run the cable to that inside, ground it and then run to the tv. But U supposed DirecTV wants to be totally retarded about it and only ground outside.

Sounds like I am going to have to make the 350mi trip and install it myself.

What do I need to tell them to tell DirecTV to send them a free dish or get a installer to leave a dish because I know they're not going to buy one from SolidSignal for $100 nor should they have to just because of rediculas narrow minded robotic non thinker policies.

When I install it I'm just going to get one of those ground plug adapters I posted above to connect a ground block to. If I can't find it locally I think I'll just get one of these reg plug ends http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-15-Am...with-Black-Metal-Clamp-Orange-18191/203713428 and just run a green ground wire into it connected to the ground prong.

What you plan will work. Technically you plan to erect the equivalent of a lightning rod. There is not much difference between the dish and the phone or cable lines....I think you are right about using that ground bond you mentioned......and you are correct about the policy.

IF there is a nearby hit and voltage follows into the building electrical ground system from your dish and then jumps through equipment and or people...they will knock on your door. Broe67, above, has it right.

Joe

 

[TheTechGuru]

Thing is the dish is not being installed up high, it's going on a wall inside a atrium and will poke up above the lower edge of that roof about a foot. It might be best to not ground at all. I've seen hundreds of dishes over the years with no ground. My only worry is static build up from wind frying a LNB or receiver.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Thing is the dish is not being installed up high, it's going on a wall inside a atrium and will poke up above the lower edge of that roof about a foot. It might be best to not ground at all. I've seen hundreds of dishes over the years with no ground. My only worry is static build up from wind frying a LNB or receiver.

You'll probably be ok with that. Lightning will sometimes ride around outside surfaces...esp in rain....until it grounds...it goes up. I think what the electric code in aware of is anything out doors could be hit...and potentially the charge could follow inside. What they don't say is the thin cable will probably burn open within a microsecond. Still the charge has to abate somewhere. With all this the fingers don't get [ointed until after the damage has been done. The liability gets dispersed from the top down.

Joe

 

[TheTechGuru]

Dunno why lighting would even go for anywhere on the roof when the building is surrounded by trees that are taller than the roof.

I've seen lightning hit a pine tree 10 ft from a house and it fried every phone in the house which was grounded properly professionally at the phone box and the non grounded directv was fine.


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[Broe67]

Lightning does not care where it hits. Alot of the issues you run into, is that you have a Lightning strike a 1/2 mile to a mile away, that hits the electrical or communications wiring, which in turns travels downstream to buildings. The biggest problem is with electrical lines falling on communication lines, or on wet ground. Then you have it seeking all paths for ground.

When you have a surge, lightning strike or electrical short. It seeks out all paths, even though we have been told over and over it is shortest path to ground, which is partially true.

 

[TheTechGuru]

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[satinstallerguy]

why didn't the installer just go get a copper rod from Home Depot or Lowe's? That's what I did for mine when he couldn't reach the BreakerBox.

Because that separates the bond from the house bond....... Pointless.........

SIG

 

[Joe Diamond]

Dunno why lighting would even go for anywhere on the roof when the building is surrounded by trees that are taller than the roof.

I've seen lightning hit a pine tree 10 ft from a house and it fried every phone in the house which was grounded properly professionally at the phone box and the non grounded directv was fine.


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Yup,
Sometimes all the receivers that are connected to phones get fried even though the system is grounded. The grounding (bonding) is not lightning protection...it controls stray voltage from the house system, esp. the receiver & TVs. In theory it also dissipates static build up but how significant can that be with a small dish? Phone and CATv systems get hit and ding stuff all over their plant.

Joe

joe

 

[dishcomm]

Here's a rather informative link....
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/06/0623_040623_lightningfacts_2.html

 

[dishcomm]

There is DirecTV..............MASTEC is a large company with DirecTV as one of its customers. MASTEC does some installations using its own employees (rare) but also subcontracts to smaller installation companies. Sometimes this subcontract things goes down another level. Each level skims a little to handle the paperwork. MASTEC is one of several Home Service Providers (HSPs) that DirecTV looks to for installation services.

Also, DirecTV has begun using its own employees as installers. I think they have also taken over all sales.

All this varies from market to market.

Joe

The MASTEC shop here uses employee techs and farms out some of their work to subs.