Installer Perplexed 322 behaving strangely

[Loki]

I am an installer in the Boise area where our locals are off the 121 superdish. I have been installing mostly dual tuners since there arrival here about six months ago. Most of the 322 are ran with two lines however some of the time I have ran only one line when a customer prefers to negate the 2nd television rather than have extra cable on the outside of the apartmen/condo but does want to keep 322 for future dual tuner use.
My problem is that I have been experiencing issues with 322 boxes getting signal intermitently for example (from 91 to nothing to 90 to nothing to 91 to nothing) and I am curious about the cause. The systems are grounded and linear compression fittings are used and I ran all new Rg6 cable swept to 3000 mhz.
This seems to only cause a problem with the aquiring satellite screen staying on certain transponders. The same house that has this problem is not experiencing any problems on there 522. However the 522 is used at least every 3 hours and the 322 (the problem box) is only used once every couple of days. I stayed at this persons house for almost two hours just watching television to see if the problem would happen however it does not. The owner says it mostly happens if the screen saver comes up.
And if I just go into the signal strength screen, the signal goes locked and then I cancel out and picture is restored. I am baffled because this may be happening on more than one house, but I have never had a callback on any system (lots being dual tuners) until now and I am getting it for all the same issues. Any help would be greatly appreciated. :shocked

 

[SimpleSimon]

Well, I am certain that the software in the x2x boxes does NOT like to only have one tuner attached to a signal, and of course, the signal sources must be identical.

Because of these inherent design flaws, almost anything can happen after that.

 

[farmsatguy]

Well, I am certain that the software in the x2x boxes does NOT like to only have one tuner attached to a signal, and of course, the signal sources must be identical.

Because of these inherent design flaws, almost anything can happen after that.

Agreed...I have been to many trouble calls where only one line is hooked to the x22 model and the problems are all over the place for the cust. They always say "Everything was fine for the first few hours..." These boxes MUST have both lines in whether 2 TV's are used or not. Why not put in a 301/311 if the cust doesnt want the backfeed. Surely we wouldn't charge dish for the backfeed tuner if we're not hooking it up, right?

 

[boba]

Looks like another professional installer that dosen't know what he is doing Dish has instructed installers that two tuners MUST be connected on dual tuner receivers!

 

[farmsatguy]

Looks like another professional installer that dosen't know what he is doing Dish has instructed installers that two tuners MUST be connected on dual tuner receivers!

Hmmm...your'e right. Hehe, I get to burn their a**'s on chargebacks though when I go and fix it. If I'm pissed enough about what I see, then I just whip out my handy camera, snap some photos, and get a reinstall! My company pays the full amount too... (happy me, even happier customer)

 

[techspec]

boba is correct, all dual tuner receivers need to have both lines hooked up, *and* off the same equipment, you can't have, say, a legacy in one tuner and a dp in the other, the rcvrs won't work like that. That goes for 322, 522, 721, 921, although on the 3 and 522 tv 2 doesn't need to be hooked up

 

[Loki]

I would not however if a customer was in a rental and had to use existing wiring but would be moving into their own home in 4 months and thus would want to keep the 322 to avoid having to pay the upgrade cost as an existing customer when they move. "good sir...Doth thou challenge my integrity?"

 

[Loki]

Agreed...I have been to many trouble calls where only one line is hooked to the x22 model and the problems are all over the place for the cust. They always say "Everything was fine for the first few hours..." These boxes MUST have both lines in whether 2 TV's are used or not. Why not put in a 301/311 if the cust doesnt want the backfeed. Surely we wouldn't charge dish for the backfeed tuner if we're not hooking it up, right?

I would not however if a customer was in a rental and had to use existing wiring but would be moving into their own home in 4 months and thus would want to keep the 322 to avoid having to pay the upgrade cost as an existing customer when they move. "good sir...Doth thou challenge my integrity?"

 

[Loki]

Looks like another professional installer that dosen't know what he is doing Dish has instructed installers that two tuners MUST be connected on dual tuner receivers!

Grow up boba, when dishnet first came out with the super dish they did not require nor did they mention strutting the super dish yet now it is required; perhaps it is that you blindly follow what dish tells you...ya know like that monkey that bangs the symbals together, wheras I, someone who installs day in and day out must often figure out solutions to problems which dish itself has created. why don't you read some more of the forum to help further your education on what other dish instructions and innovations have lead to problems by other individuals.

 

[boba]

Grow up boba, when dishnet first came out with the super dish they did not require nor did they mention strutting the super dish yet now it is required; perhaps it is that you blindly follow what dish tells you...ya know like that monkey that bangs the symbals together, wheras I, someone who installs day in and day out must often figure out solutions to problems which dish itself has created. why don't you read some more of the forum to help further your education on what other dish instructions and innovations have lead to problems by other individuals.

Sorry Loki but I have you beat by a few years. I started installing satellites in 1985 and installed my first DISH system in March of 1996. I have a RCA installer card for Directv and worked for a company that participated in Directv/RCA BETA testing before sales started here.

 

[larrystotler]

The main issue is that E* needs to get the DP+ Twin out so that we aren't having to aggrevate the customers with needing the 2 lines. They have the DP+44 of course, but for a 522/322 job with 3 sats it is unneccessary. Plus, anything with a power inserter is a problem since it can get unplugged.

 

[SimpleSimon]

I'm all for that! Gimme that DPP Twin NOW! It'll be great for replacing D* setups. Swap dishes and reuse the old cables (when appropriate). TV2 outputs right into the house's RG-59 (hopefully) and you're done.

 

[Loki]

Sorry Loki but I have you beat by a few years. I started installing satellites in 1985 and installed my first DISH system in March of 1996. I have a RCA installer card for Directv and worked for a company that participated in Directv/RCA BETA testing before sales started here.

Boba my friend,
I am flattered....for it is apparent to me that in only the few years that I have been installing I have already surpassed you in both knowledge and skill.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Funny. We've got an absolute newbie contradicting multiple experienced people. When has that ever happened before?

Anyway, Loki, think about software updates? Something that works (or doesn't work) now is subject to change at any time.

 

[Loki]

Funny. We've got an absolute newbie contradicting multiple experienced people. When has that ever happened before?

Anyway, Loki, think about software updates? Something that works (or doesn't work) now is subject to change at any time.

I only contradict bobas rudeness; and his idea that whatever dish says or instructs is the right way or only way something will work. I think that putting a question up on this forum does not qualify the poster as "not knowing what he is doing". I accept that they are many different ways to achieve the same end result and therefore come this forum looking to share ideas with people in the industry. I must also take this time to point out that Boba's original post shows that he either did not read what my post was asking or just didn't care to make any helpful comments. It states quite clearly in my post that I did hook up both lines and the problem is still occurring. I wanted any ideas that someone might have had on why that was the case; I wasn't specifically looking for someone to regurgitate facts that I could have gotten from a dishnet CSR.

 

[Loki]

information not included on original post

Gentleman I appologize. I was looking at a lot of the posts, paticularly boba's original post, and I gathered that either boba can't read (not likely since he can type) or I left out a crucial part of the situation. Upon re-reading my original post I noticed that since I mentioned having ran 322's with only one line in the past, it was possible that I lead you all to believe that only one line was ran in this case. There were two lines ran in this case. I have heard of large power/magnetic fields causing problems similar to this however the source of such information was not very reliable and I was more looking for information that was not pre-disposed to focusing on just this possible cause and therefore I left out mentioning that there is a large power substation across the street.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Apology accepted - and welcome aboard.

I wouldn't be concerned about the power station itself - the radiated energy falls off with the square of the distance. However, if the power lines from the station are close, I suppose there could be an issue, although I've never seen one.

 

[ShadowEKU]

Heres an odd question... and dont everyone jump on me at once if im completely off. Is the dish aimed over the ower station. I only ask because the radiated energy does fall off but... it could still cause a little attenuation and possibly enough to cause a problem. just a question i guess.. is this possible?

 

[SimpleSimon]

I suppose it's possible - same with power lines. But power runs at much lower frequencies (60 Hz). Of course, harmonics exist that are much higher in frequency, but to get from 60Hz to 12GHz is a Loooonnng way. I don't really know the math of harmonics, but the emissions of a harmonic are (almost?) always less than the primary, and second and higher order harmonics are less than that.

So, until someone tells me otherwise, I'm going to believe that the zillionth order harmonic of power lines/stations that could hit even the 1-2GHz of the cable feed is way too small to even be measured.

 

[ShadowEKU]

thats kinda what i figured... it was worht the question though. but on to the problem... :?