Inexperienced Noob Questions

[WYOBrewer]

First of all, thanks for all the great information on this site! This site has been responsible for teaching me most of what I have learned about FTA so far - and as you will quickly see I have a LOT more to learn.

I am posting because I'm at a loss... I don't know where to look for help, and I can't find the answers on any of the posts here. I hoping someone would be kind enough to point me in the right direction after the laughing fits wane. Here goes:

I recently purchased some equipment to gain access to FTA signals with my HTPC. I built the PC last year to run everything in our home theater from one interface. FTA was always in the vision, and I figured I could get a receiver card and make use of an old DISH reflector that I still had from several years ago when I subscribed to DISH. In short, I decided against using this dish and instead opted for a 76cm Winegard DS2076 with a SG-2100 motor to drive it and a Starcom SR-3602 HD twin LNB. To receive, I invested in a TBS6981 DVB-S2 dual-tuner PCI-e card.

The installation of the card went smoothly, and I did this before installing the new dish and hooking everything up. This weekend I spent most of Saturday installing the dish on the roof and running a new RG-6 line to the theater. I spent a good part of today trying to configure the "mobilizer" portions of DVBDream and ProgDVB to get the dish moving. The software is set up to make use of or simulate USALS, which I thought would make fine-tuning the dish set up a lot easier. However, the dish does not appear to be moving at all despite the feedback in the software saying that it is. Using a signal strength meter has not helped much either, as I get the strongest signal when pointed South and the signal drops off when turning either direction (instead of finding peaks along the arc of movement where I would expect to receive signals). The meter also confirms that I am getting 18V at the dish from the receiver and I am able to move the dish manually using the buttons on the motor. I am assuming that my elevation must be off, but all of the calculations I made during installation appear correct. I would hope the installation would be close enough to pick up some signal and allow for tuning.

At this point my trouble with that approach is that I have no idea what satellite I would be tuning. When searching for channels both software packages tell me that I have reasonable signal strength but very low quality. As a result, no channels are found. This is the same for any satellite it tells me that it is searching (I believe because the dish is not turning, although the software seems to think it is).

A few of my questions (probably really dumb questions, so please bear with me and if you respond please keep the answers simple):

Does anyone have experience with the TBS cards? Are there any pointers you can give me?
Am I missing something in the set up that is preventing the receiver card from driving the motor correctly?
Does it matter what satellite I use to fine-tune the installation? Even if I have no idea what signal I am receiving?
I can't find good information on the LNB I am using. I didn't realize all of the differences in the LNBs, and I am wondering if this could be the source of my problems. Is anyone familiar with the SR-3602? Is this a good LNB to use? If so, is there something I must be aware of in setting up the receiver?

As you can see, I'm pretty lost and in way over my head. I am open to any advice given. Please keep in mind that if possible I'd really like to make this system work with the PCI-e receiver card I have now. With the exception of the LNB, I am fairly confident that this equipment should be working well together, but I'm still stumped as to why the dish will not drive from the receiver.

Thanks in advance for your help. Thanks for all the great info so far too!

 

[Magic Static]

I'm not a fan of DVBDream but there is a new ver 2.0a out that I havn't tested yet. Supposedly USALS is fixed. And it's a lot easier to get your codecs loaded. I always used DiSEqC 1.2 raw commands to move my motor in DD. I was using the TBS8922 card. I don't know the LNBF at all.
DD is such a pain I pulled the TBS card and Went with MyTheatre and a TeVii card.

And hey! Welcome to the forum!

 

[FaT Air]

Googling the LNBF - STAR COM SR-3602 CIRCULAR DUAL LNB - makes me think it's a DSS LNBF (12.2 - 12.7Ghz circular polarity) FTA requires, for all domestic satellites, a linear polarity(Horiz&Vertical) with a LO (local oscillator freq) of 10.750Ghz (10750Mhz) to recieve the 11.7 to 12.2Ghz band.
If the international satellites over the pacific are also wanted, a Universal LNBF would be required.
LO of 9750 and 10600. Recieves ~10700 to 11700 (9750 LO) and with 10600 selected via 22khz will recieve 11.7 to 12.2.
Check your LNBF for any Local Oscillator freq, or Band information to confirm.

 

[primestar31]

Personally, I'd hook the dish up as STATIONARY first, and get a single satellite up and running before trying ANYTHING else! It's a good boost to the ego and your mental thoughts to know you have at least a single sat zero'ed in with channels, and up and running. The eliminates a lot of "messing around so much you can't see straight". It also tells you you have the card working, and software properly installed.

There is a BIG difference in: "It USED to work, but now it doesn't" versus: "It NEVER worked yet, and I have NO clue".

Check this site out: http://www.dishpointer.com/

That tells me your city is located at:
Latitude: 44.2911°
Longitude: -105.5022°

You can find your property, and zero it in to the exact coordinates for better siting.
That means your "true south" (highest point of your dish, as it'll drop slightly when you go either West or East) satellite is ~ 105W (AMC 15) You could zero in on "Macys" channel, as it's easy to get but is scrambled. Their radio channel does come in fine though. Once you have that locked in, you'll know better where you stand.
So my recomendation it to get a single sat up and running, and forget all the rest. Once that's done you know where you stand, and the rest is simply "tweaking".

 

[WYOBrewer]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome. I see the wisdom in tuning one satellite, and I suspect that the LNBF that I am using now is the reason I can't tune anything at 105, as the dish should be pointed exactly in the direction. The coordinates you listed, primestar31, are correct. They are what I have been using in the set up. The lattitude at my house is ~44.25, so a little South of the center of town. ...Ha, and yes, it never worked and I have NO clue. Thanks for being paitent.

FaT Air, thanks for the info on my LNB. I selected this one simply because it was recommended for use with DVB-S2 receivers. I really had no idea what I was shopping for at the time. To be honest, while I was aware of polarity, I didn't realize that the LNBF made that much difference. Can you (or anyone else) recommend a good filter that will support S2 reception?

Finally, I have also tried sending the raw commands (HEX) to the motor from the receiver as well. DVBDream is a pain to use, so I'm not 100% confident it's even sending the raw commands correctly, but that isn't working either. I have contated TBS support, and I am hoping they can help. If not, I guess I may have to just scrap that $130 card and start over.

Thanks for all the help so far guys. Wish I would have asked now before jumping in, but it's fun and I'm learning...

 

[rv1pop]

I would not scrap the card, but I would get a regular receiver that has good blind scan to align the dishES you will be getting!

 

[brentb636]

At the very least, the Card can be an auxiliary tuner, for 4:2:2 channels, for example. That's pretty much all this I use my PCI cards for.

 

[FaT Air]

The Wright brothers didn't accomplish powered flight on their 'first go'. So why attempt the most complicated system initially? A STB receiver and gaining experience with a fixed dish. Much easier to set up and get running. Then add the motor. Then proceed to hook it to the computer and tweak only software.
This is taking it in Stages, simplest to most complex. Higher chance of success in the least amount of time and anguish.
Before anything else, take a look at the LNBF for band or local oscillator info. Found more results using that same number (all with 'Star-something brand names) that are also linear, some universal, some standard.

 

[kittyhas1000legs]

There is a BIG difference in: "It USED to work, but now it doesn't" versus: "It NEVER worked yet, and I have NO clue".

Another FTA noob here,

I'm glad this thread and the "Hispasat Day" thread are here, as they've covered pretty much the same questions I had. It seems when starting out, I'll be sticking to the tried-and-true KISS method (keep it simple, stupid!) One lnbf on one dish with one microHD. I've been trying to keep it as cheap as possible, but I think I'll have to get the microHD over a cheaper box or PCI card given how well-reviewed it is. A few more dollars now will probably save me from many headaches later.

What I'll be getting this week, which I hope is sufficient:
-GeosatPro microHD
-GeosatPro SL1PLL LNBF
-Directv Slimline dish (free from a coworker, I know it's pushing the lower limits for size)

I just hope that one pine tree doesn't give me problems...

(I'm sorry if this would be considered a threadjack, I thought it would be better to reply here rather than start another noob thread).

 

[northgeorgia]

Hello kittyhas1000legs,

I never had any luck with the smaller dishes, but I know several people have received some stuff on them. Keep an eye out on Craigslist. You can sometimes find a real bargain. I picked up my 90 cm dish from someone locally for $30. In any case, welcome to the SatelliteGuys forum and let us know if we can help you out

 

[dotbatman]

I found myself in a very similar situation to yours about a year ago. It's EXTREMELY difficult to use a computer card to get your dish tracking the arc. They just don't provide enough feedback about signal quality quickly enough. You need an STB. If you want, I have a pansat 2500a that I'll send you for the cost of shipping. It'll help you get on the arc and then you can use your computer to do the recording and viewing. I recently got a great deal on a MicroHD so that's what I use now. I've found that no single piece of software does as well as the MicroHD does with regard to getting everything on all the sats that I have a clear line of sight on. For reference, I've got a TBS 8920 and a Prof 7301 that I use for tuning on the computer.

 

[Tron]

-GeosatPro microHD
-GeosatPro SL1PLL LNBF
-Directv Slimline dish (free from a coworker, I know it's pushing the lower limits for size)

You'll get stronger transponders with the Slimline, but remember that you'll need to modify the dish where the LNBF attaches in order to use the SL1PLL. The Slimline uses a non-standard mounted LNBF stack that fits into the feed support arm, so you'll need to fabricate something on the end of the arm to hold the SL1PLL. Many members here have had success using conduit clamps.

Good luck and welcome to SatelliteGuys!

 

[WYOBrewer]

I found myself in a very similar situation to yours about a year ago. It's EXTREMELY difficult to use a computer card to get your dish tracking the arc. They just don't provide enough feedback about signal quality quickly enough. You need an STB. If you want, I have a pansat 2500a that I'll send you for the cost of shipping. It'll help you get on the arc and then you can use your computer to do the recording and viewing. I recently got a great deal on a MicroHD so that's what I use now. I've found that no single piece of software does as well as the MicroHD does with regard to getting everything on all the sats that I have a clear line of sight on. For reference, I've got a TBS 8920 and a Prof 7301 that I use for tuning on the computer.

Did you have difficulty getting the TBS card to send signals to the motor? I still have no luck in controlling the motor with the receiver card. Manual operation has been no issue. I should be getting a new LNBF later this week and will try operating with that filter instead. If nothing else, it should allow me to at least tune a signal easier to verify everything else is operating.

Also, I sent you another PM. Not sure if it went through, so if you didn't get a reply back, please let me know.

 

[WYOBrewer]

Googling the LNBF - STAR COM SR-3602 CIRCULAR DUAL LNB - makes me think it's a DSS LNBF (12.2 - 12.7Ghz circular polarity) FTA requires, for all domestic satellites, a linear polarity(Horiz&Vertical) with a LO (local oscillator freq) of 10.750Ghz (10750Mhz) to recieve the 11.7 to 12.2Ghz band.
If the international satellites over the pacific are also wanted, a Universal LNBF would be required.
LO of 9750 and 10600. Recieves ~10700 to 11700 (9750 LO) and with 10600 selected via 22khz will recieve 11.7 to 12.2.
Check your LNBF for any Local Oscillator freq, or Band information to confirm.

After checking, the LO on this LNB is 9750/10600. I'm not sure why I get a strong signal at 105 and to either side by about 20-degrees, but nothing outside that... I will be doing some checking this weekend and play with the system some more. This time I'll have some help so hopefully I can tune a legitimate signal and confirm a satellite and transponder.

Also, I ordered a quad LNBF as well. I'll try both to see how much difference that makes in reception. Hopefully I can post some good news by Monday. Thanks for the help.

 

[WYOBrewer]

Well, I changed out the LNB to a Invacom QPH-031 yesterday. I was able to use the analog signal meter I have to "fine tune" a signal on the 105 AMC15 bird (or at least that's what I believe I have picked up). Surprisingly, just following the installation instructions with the Winegard dish, I think I was quite close on the elevation and probably just a few degrees off on the azimuth. I'm still playing with the motor control, but it appears that I may be about one degree off still based on the signal strength displayed in DVBDream and ProgDVB.

I'm not sure if it was the LNB that made the difference, but I am able to control the motor using the TBS6981 card now with the Goto X function only. The USALS function of DVBDream doesn't seem to control the motor well, but that's a minor concern that this point, especially since I don't expect it to tune perfectly anyway. Saving settings for each satellite after some tweaking is what I expected anyway.

So, now back to the confession of my ignorance: I still am not receiving any good signals. The signal strength peaks at about 80% on a few satellites, most are around 60% at best (based on what DVBDream and ProgDVB tell me). However in no case can I get a signal quality above about 10%, other than a few little micro-bursts of clarity on the meter. No picture or sound yet. I'm not sure what it is causing this. I have researched a little bit, but I have yet to find any good info. Does anyone have experience setting up at this point that may be able to help me?

A few things. I have changed the LNB LO frequencies at all points to 10.75GHz in both programs. I have turned off the 22MHz switch signal. I can move the dish while pointing at a satellite to confirm that I am receiving max signal strength, but I don't know how to improve the quality at this point. Adjusting the skew of the LNB didn't seem to have any impact (I had my wife monitor the signal quality on the program while rotating to 30-degrees either side with no impact to quality). I have tried tuning several different transponders on several different satellites, but I haven't had any success with gains in signal quality. It has occurred to me that I could be trying to tune the wrong satellite (say AMC1 at 103 instead of AMC15 at 105, but in tuning other birds on the arc, they all seem to fall where I expect them - within about 2-degrees). Is this a valid "test" for assuming I am on the right satellite at this point?

Is anyone else familiar with DVBDream or ProgDVB that may be able to tell me what I've done wrong?
If I am off on the skew by say 5-degrees, would signal quality drop off that fast? I don't believe I am, but just trying to guess at possibilities here...
I have built most of my own cables. I believe I have done a good job with the connectors, but if I screwed them up or had a poor connection would I still be communicating with the motor and receiving a signal but getting next to nothing usable?
Do you have a favorite satellite and transponder to tune in that works best for setting up?
Any other thoughts?