In the process of installing 30' tv antenna tower

[Tower Guy]

Here’s the story about the WAQP antenna

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076ff36b48bd81016b6c38ae9e22d2

It had to be modified after it was built!

 

[Tower Guy]

It is possible that the terrain differences coupled with the extra height if the new tower may be causing WFFC to be in a “cold spot” while WMNN is in a “hot spot”. If so moving the Televes antenna up or down might solve the problem.

 

[primestar31]

Well for now, I left the Dat Boss LR up on the top of the tower, about as high as I can get it. It has the active dipole installed, which has a integral preamp. It's presently not connected to my system, though I did connect it to a ground block with a terminator on the other side. Don't want static build up to cause any possible damage while I wait to see if anything changes in the future.

So, with the outboard Televes 560383 preamp in the systems box, its input is the CM4228HD antenna on the 27' mast pipe next to the tower through a UHF -side power-pass UVSJ (the Radio Shack one). The Y10-7-13 VHF yagi up on the tower under the Dat Boss LR, is bypassing the preamp at present. It goes through a separate MCM Electronics FM filter (I have EXTREMELY high FM nearby, on station 94.5 that comes in higher than my highest power tv station) then into the VHF side of the UVSJ. That antenna has enough margin, that it doesn't really need to be pre-amped.

So in effect, I have 3 antennas installed, (2-UHF and 1 VHF) but only two at present are actually being used. So far all my UHF (WFFC-LD included) are received perfectly on the CM4228HD antenna on my original slightly lower mast pipe next to the tower.

 

[Comptech]

Sounds like me chasing WLOS here in Greenville They are supposed to cover us but don't. They did put a 50 watt repeater on Paris mountain, close to me, but still hit and miss.

 

[primestar31]

Final photos: Guy wires all tensioned and set. Guy wires maybe overkill, but they make me feel safer.

 

[primestar31]

I still have a little clean-up to do. Such as replacing the old equipment box with a new slightly larger one, and taping down all the coaxes properly, and properly grounding the tower itself to the service entrance ground. I also intend on replacing the smaller and lower guy wires (lower because the two previous antennas on here needed them to be lower) on the 27' mast next to the tower that now has the CM4228HD on it, by raising the guy ring to just below the CM4228HD and installing 6/18 steel guys in place of the older ones, with new turnbuckles and properly tensioned.

 

[primestar31]

Tower has now been officially properly grounded to the ground stake next to it, which is bonded to the service entrance ground rod.

 

[primestar31]

I'm going to have a new update on this install soon, as I've made some changes as I've learned more about my multipath reception issues at times over the last couple of months.

 

[primestar31]

Ok, got some photos of my final configuration, this is the one I'm keeping.

At present, I'm using the AntennaCraft Y10-7-13 VHF yagi antenna on the tower for my local RF12 VHF channel. The Antennas Direct C4-CJM UHF antenna mounted above it, is not hooked up at present. I originally had the Televes Dat Boss LR up there, which gave AWESOME signal level to all my UHF channels, with the exception of WFFC-LD RF17. I couldn't lock that one at all. I believe that another RF17 station at the direct opposite azimuth from it caused issues, but I'm not 100% sure of that, yet it was the ONLY channel that didn't work up there. So, I swapped it for this AD antenna that was given to me as a test. Well, it didn't work up there either for RF17, if had the exact same issue with that channel as the Televes antenna.

So, I've been using a Channel Master CM4228HD, I UHF antenna mounted on the well pipe mast next to the tower (2 feet to the East) for the last couple of months. That didn't get quite as high a signal level as the Televes Dat Boss LR did mounted up on top of the tower, but it worked fine for all of them, including ok for WFFC-LD RF17. It's shielded by trees from the direct signal path from the WMNN-LD RF17 to the North-West. However, it was more susceptible to multipath, especially in high winds, which we have a lot of. So, I would get RS Uncorrected errors for WFFC-LD RF17 and WAQP RF36, which are two stations I watch very frequently.

Anyway, after observing how it worked these last two months, I decided to mount the Dat Boss LR at the top of the well pipe mast, and see how that works compared to the CM4228HD. Since it's a long yagi antenna, and has smaller sidelobes and better F/B ratio than the CM4228HD, I had hopes it would work better. Well, it DOES! I brought the signal levels for WAQP UP more than 10 points, and WFFC-LD is about the same as before, BUT, isn't so prone to RS Uncorrected errors now.

Here's the photos.

Photo of what trees and such it's all aiming through, I took this through the CM4228HD, when it was still mounted. It was below the present Dat Boss LR by about 5 feet:

 

[primestar31]

By the way, I forgot to mention that the Televes Dat Boss LR antenna has the PASSIVE dipole installed at present, instead of the one with a built-in preamp. It feeds into a Televes 560331 preamp (comes in a kit pn: 560383 w/power supply device), has AGC and built-in FM and LTE/5G filters (5g filter starts at 608Mhz, just above RF channel 36) along with the AntennaCraft Y10-7-13 through a UVSJ combiner. Letting that outboard preamp control the whole system works best for me.

Finally got it tweaked between WFFC Rf17, WAQP Rf36, and WSMH RF16. WFFC is at about 62% signal strength, 25dB SNR on my Tivo diags. The other two are BOTH at 72% signal strength, and 29dB SNR, which is MAXED out highest in the Tivo for OTA once its agc kicks in. That's the first time I've ever been able to get those 3 balanced all that good. ALL the rest of my local DMA channels are also 72% 29dB, even the ones way off the main antenna lobe, but then they are received at a much higher power than the 3 mentioned above that I had to especially keep balanced.

I can highly recommend the Televes products. The antenna is built with stainless steel, and VERY sturdy. I expect it to last a LONG time. The orange color is kinda distracting, but appears to be their trademark, and should be UV protected.

 

[TRG]

Ok, got some photos of my final configuration, this is the one I'm keeping.

At present, I'm using the AntennaCraft Y10-7-13 VHF yagi antenna on the tower for my local RF12 VHF channel. The Antennas Direct C4-CJM UHF antenna mounted above it, is not hooked up at present. I originally had the Televes Dat Boss LR up there, which gave AWESOME signal level to all my UHF channels, with the exception of WFFC-LD RF17. I couldn't lock that one at all. I believe that another RF17 station at the direct opposite azimuth from it caused issues, but I'm not 100% sure of that, yet it was the ONLY channel that didn't work up there. So, I swapped it for this AD antenna that was given to me as a test. Well, it didn't work up there either for RF17, if had the exact same issue with that channel as the Televes antenna.

So, I've been using a Channel Master CM4228HD, I UHF antenna mounted on the well pipe mast next to the tower (2 feet to the East) for the last couple of months. That didn't get quite as high a signal level as the Televes Dat Boss LR did mounted up on top of the tower, but it worked fine for all of them, including ok for WFFC-LD RF17. It's shielded by trees from the direct signal path from the WMNN-LD RF17 to the North-West. However, it was more susceptible to multipath, especially in high winds, which we have a lot of. So, I would get RS Uncorrected errors for WFFC-LD RF17 and WAQP RF36, which are two stations I watch very frequently.

Anyway, after observing how it worked these last two months, I decided to mount the Dat Boss LR at the top of the well pipe mast, and see how that works compared to the CM4228HD. Since it's a long yagi antenna, and has smaller sidelobes and better F/B ratio than the CM4228HD, I had hopes it would work better. Well, it DOES! I brought the signal levels for WAQP UP more than 10 points, and WFFC-LD is about the same as before, BUT, isn't so prone to RS Uncorrected errors now.

Here's the photos.

Photo of what trees and such it's all aiming through, I took this through the CM4228HD, when it was still mounted. It was below the present Dat Boss LR by about 5 feet:

View attachment 153610

View attachment 153612View attachment 153613View attachment 153614View attachment 153615View attachment 153616View attachment 153617View attachment 153618View attachment 153619View attachment 153620View attachment 153621View attachment 153622View attachment 153623View attachment 153624

Nice setup. Suddenly I feel spoiled that my OTA stations are located on a 10k+ foot mountain just 8.5 miles away according to RabbitEars.

 

[primestar31]

Latest update:

I think I'm going to push the Dat Boss LR up another 6 inches, which is the highest it can go on the well mast pipe. I just took these photos today. The Dat Boss LR is now using the active dipole. It's combined with the AC Y10-7-13 vhf antenna, using a UVSJ that passes power on both sides. I then have the 560383 preamp only amping the Y10-7-13, and the Dat Boss LR using it's preamp built into the dipole.

Yesterday 4/23/22 I got the new version model Ellipse up at the top of the tower mast as high as I can get it without extending the mast guy wires another 12". Which, I don't think I'll bother as I'm not sure it's worth the trouble for the maybe tiny bit of extra gain that may provide.

The Ellipse is on a separate coax from the combined Dat Boss & Y10-7-13. I have both antennas split across two different HD Homeruns & my other equipment. Splitting across the HDHR's, allows me to check aim and signal up at the antenna with my phone and app.

Anyway, the Ellipse being higher is about equaling or slightly better SNR of the Dat Boss LR on all channels, without being affected as much by Multipath. Though it also has issues with RF17, just like when the Dat Boss was at the top of the tower mast. The Dat Boss now being lower, gets RF17 perfectly while being shielded by the Maple tree from the other Rf17 directly behind. Not sure what'll happen when the tree leaves come back, but there's nothing more I can do about that, short of cutting down the neighbors trees, lol.

That new model Ellipse packs a LOT of tech in a small foot-print. I can't recommend it high enough. Model number: 148883

I Believe I'll be getting a Smartkom for sure when it's finally released, to combine the best of each antenna setup. SmartKom New Technology For Combining Antennas & Arrays

Sorry for the darker photos I took today, but it's been thunderstorming and 80 degrees, lol. We had 1" of snow just a couple days ago...

 

[Captain Midnight]

Latest update:

I think I'm going to push the Dat Boss LR up another 6 inches, which is the highest it can go on the well mast pipe. I just took these photos today. The Dat Boss LR is now using the active dipole. It's combined with the AC Y10-7-13 vhf antenna, using a UVSJ that passes power on both sides. I then have the 560383 preamp only amping the Y10-7-13, and the Dat Boss LR using it's preamp built into the dipole.

Yesterday 4/23/22 I got the new version model Ellipse up at the top of the tower mast as high as I can get it without extending the mast guy wires another 12". Which, I don't think I'll bother as I'm not sure it's worth the trouble for the maybe tiny bit of extra gain that may provide.

The Ellipse is on a separate coax from the combined Dat Boss & Y10-7-13. I have both antennas split across two different HD Homeruns & my other equipment. Splitting across the HDHR's, allows me to check aim and signal up at the antenna with my phone and app.

Anyway, the Ellipse being higher is about equaling or slightly better SNR of the Dat Boss LR on all channels, without being affected as much by Multipath. Though it also has issues with RF17, just like when the Dat Boss was at the top of the tower mast. The Dat Boss now being lower, gets RF17 perfectly while being shielded by the Maple tree from the other Rf17 directly behind. Not sure what'll happen when the tree leaves come back, but there's nothing more I can do about that, short of cutting down the neighbors trees, lol.

That new model Ellipse packs a LOT of tech in a small foot-print. I can't recommend it high enough. Model number: 148883

I Believe I'll be getting a Smartkom for sure when it's finally released, to combine the best of each antenna setup. SmartKom New Technology For Combining Antennas & Arrays

Sorry for the darker photos I took today, but it's been thunderstorming and 80 degrees, lol. We had 1" of snow just a couple days ago...View attachment 156532View attachment 156533View attachment 156534View attachment 156535View attachment 156536View attachment 156537View attachment 156538

The new Ellipse is impressive based on your results. I have the UHF-Only DAT Boss LR too. I think I just need a new snap in active element with optimized RF14-36 preamp assembly.

 

[primestar31]

I think I just need a new snap in active element with optimized RF14-36 preamp assembly.

That doesn't exist, I've asked. There's also a newly designed Dat Boss Mix antenna that has that feature, but the antenna itself is also changed with size on the elements. It's NOT just a matter of changing the internal preamp or dipole wing sizes.

 

[Inclined Orbit]

Not good to have metal guy wires going right up underneath the antennas. That can skew the antenna pattern upwards and loose gain at the horizon where you need it. You should be able to attach guy wires just above the lowest part of the top section which would be about 8ft below the top of the tower. That should still survive a hurricane. Or use Phillystran non conductive guys.

 

[Captain Midnight]

That doesn't exist, I've asked. There's also a newly designed Dat Boss Mix antenna that has that feature, but the antenna itself is also changed with size on the elements. It's NOT just a matter of changing the internal preamp or dipole wing sizes.

That is a bummer. I get that it costs mucho dinero to redesign things, but I really would like one. The preamp being built in was a selling point until you have LTE as low as 615MHz showing up on the analyzer. The filter after the amp helps but I hope the LTE isn't messing with the AGC in the amp.

 

[primestar31]

The preamp being built in was a selling point until you have LTE as low as 615MHz showing up on the analyzer.

Do what I'm doing: put the newest Channel Master LTE filter inline. It's power-passing, maybe the only one that is. No, not quite as good as having it between the antenna and preamp, but it definitely helps, and knocks down everything starting at 609Mhz. It slightly nicks RF36, but not by much. LTE/5G Filter

 

[Captain Midnight]

Do what I'm doing: put the newest Channel Master LTE filter inline. It's power-passing, maybe the only one that is. No, not quite as good as having it between the antenna and preamp, but it definitely helps, and knocks down everything starting at 609Mhz. It slightly nicks RF36, but not by much. LTE/5G Filter

I might get a new Mix LR and physically disconnect the VHF section if I go nutty enough. LOL.

 

[primestar31]

I might get a new Mix LR and physically disconnect the VHF section if I go nutty enough. LOL.

Just don't install the VHF wing panels. They snap in and you flip over the locks to lock them.

 

[navychop]

Latest update:

I think I'm going to push the Dat Boss LR up another 6 inches, which is the highest it can go on the well mast pipe.

Looking at those antennas- has the FBI paid a visit? Yet?