I'm confused about the adjustments on this dish

[Dee_Ann]

I have this Directway dish with some trippy adjustments on it. It looks like it is designed to give you a great degree of precision during alignment which makes sense as it was an Internet dish originally.

The skew adjustment is simple. I like it because it's very finely detailed and I can really get it right on the money and there's no guessing at all.
There a gob of bolts on the pole mount so that you can adjust to make it level even if the pole isn't. I understand that..

But the tilt adjustment marks, confuse me. For instance, I want to set the tilt to 41.4 degrees.
But on this thing, there's marks on both halves of the tilt mechanism.

I'm used to a simple pointer that you line up with the scale. Well this one has the scale but on the bottom half it has 10 marks numbered 0 through 9.
Which mark do you go by? This thing is really messing with my mind.

The thing is, I want to pre-adjust this sitting on my patio (It's just sitting on an NPRM so I can work on it, I can not see the satellite from here)
I want to set it up on my patio because once I carry it out to the pole, and point it at 125, it's very hard to see the side with the tilt marks because it's right next to another dish and a few other poles and stuff so it's pretty crowded there.
I tried to line up a different Direcway dish on 125 the other day and I had zero luck. I am wondering if maybe my 10' dish is in it's way. I dunno.

The other dish I was trying to adjust is extremely crude, it doesn't have a bolt you can turn to tilt it up and down, you loosen the side bolts and it falls, just like an old simple little pizza dish. It's really annoying and pretty much impossible for me to adjust it so I want to switch to this one which is obviously a precision dish.

Can someone explain to me, in Ijjit simpleton terms how to use and adjust this goofy tilt scale on this thing?












Thanks!

 

[Mr Tony]

If there isnt an edge to go off of it usually would be the centre of that elevation bolt

But in the last pic it looks like there is a edge to the left of that bolt

 

[chaskuchar]

the bottom ten marks are a calibration so you can get tenths of a degree. right now i would say it is set on 41.6
charlie

 

[FaT Air]

And also realize, as you skew the entire dish, it will be looking in the direction of the skew. In this case, to the west. so the actual azimuth of the dish will be east of where a normally skewed dish* would be for the same satellite. I estimate about 10° or there abouts. (I used to have the formula, just cant find it)
*normally skewed dish - where the dish is vertical, and the lnbf only is skewed.

 

[Wescopc]

That is a vernier scale - here is how to use/read a vernier scale on vernier calipers:
How to use and read a vernier caliper?
Bob

 

[Dee_Ann]

Well the skew part, I'm good on that. It took me about 3 years to get it but it finally soaked through my very hard, thick head.


I just can't understand what the 10 marks on the bottom are about.
This is the only dish I've ever seen that has these.


I have used this dish before on another satellite but it was a really easy one, 97w. It's a really strong signal here and aiming with my meter is a real snap.
I didn't use the marks on the dish for tilt, I just watched my meter as I cranked it up and down and when I had a signal then I still only watched the meter as I tweaked the dish.
So I never used the marks on this one before.

 

[Wescopc]

Dee Ann - go to the link in my post #5 - your scale on the dish works just like the scale on vernier calipers. Study the pictures in the link - and then you will see how chaskucha came up with 41.6 degrees in post #3.
Bob

 

[Dee_Ann]

Dee Ann - go to the link in my post #5 - your scale on the dish works just like the scale on vernier calipers. Study the pictures in the link - and then you will see how chaskucha came up with 41.6 degrees in post #3.
Bob

Oh oh... This looks complicated..
My dad tried to teach me how to read this thing, I forget the name of it, it looks like a C-clamp for measuring stuff, it has dials on the handle with marks like this.
It blew my mind, I couldn't cope with it. Then he gave me a different kind that's made sort of like a slide ruler with jaws, sort of looks like a pipe wrench.
I couldn't handle that one either. He finally traded me out for one that has a digital readout on it. That one, I can handle.
I'm horrible at math and with numbers in general. Numbers make my brain go all spoldey..
But I will read this none the less and see if I can figure it out. I will have to read it like a dozen times but I'll try..

Thank you..

 

[polgyver]

Hello, Dee Ann, you got really precise elevation scale in this dish. You should use the first line on the bottom scale (marked from 0 to 9), thus line 0, to read the angle of elevation. It falls somewhere between 41 and 42 on the upper scale, but closer to 42 than to 41. It means that there are decimal parts of one degree involved. Could be 0.6, or 0.7, or 0.8 above 41 whole degrees. Without these bottom lines, it is hard to estimate. But if you try to see which lines from the upper and bottom scales line-up the most, as one is extension of the other, then you can notice that bottom line with number 7 is aligned with 48 degree on upper scale. This 48 is irrelevant, this line is only needed to choose line 7, which is the decimal with 41 degrees, therefore exact angle is 41.7 degree. If there were no bottom lines, you should follow what Iceberg said : look for edge in the inner bracket, and if there is none, align with the bolt centre. Cheers, polgyver

 

[AcWxRadar]

Dee,

That dish mount is AWESOME!

Try to work out how to read that Vernier scale from the previous posts above. It's highly accurate and once you get it straight in your mind, you will love it! The tools your Dad tried to explain to you were Micrometers and Calipers from your description. One looked like a horseshoe with round bars which clamped on a part to be measured with an adjustable handle on one side of the shoe that read out the dimensional reading on the rotary portion and the other was a linear "ruler" with jaws on one end that clamped on the part to be measured.

Both are akin to a slide rule for math calculations. It just takes a little practice to learn them. Then you will say... "Duh! That's easy!"

Look at the ZERO marker on the lower scale. It lines up past 41 degrees on the upper scale. So we know that the angle is greater than 41 degrees. Look at all the other tick marks on the lower scale. Which one lines up with another tick mark on the upper scale? It is the "7", so the angle is 41° + 0.7° or 41.7°. (With my eyes, it looks to me that the "7" on the lower scale is lined up better than the "6" with the mark on the upper scale).

Anyway, hang on to that dish and mount! That's cool!

RADAR

 

[Dee_Ann]

Dee,

That dish mount is AWESOME!

Try to work out how to read that Vernier scale from the previous posts above. It's highly accurate and once you get it straight in your mind, you will love it! The tools your Dad tried to explain to you were Micrometers and Calipers from your description. One looked like a horseshoe with round bars which clamped on a part to be measured with an adjustable handle on one side of the shoe that read out the dimensional reading on the rotary portion and the other was a linear "ruler" with jaws on one end that clamped on the part to be measured.

Yes! That's what they were! I couldn't remember the names to save my life. My dad tried to teach me how to use various tools and even tried to convince me to learn how to do machinist stuff a few times but I have no talent for that sort of thing or interest in it. Dad gets his cookies messing with machinery and fixing things. I guess his dream is to be "King of all Machines" or something like that. Must be a guy thing..









Really Dad? Messing with greasy, dirty machines? Um, nope.. Besides, you have to be good at math and especially fractions which I can't do fractions at all unless it's like halves or quarters..

Both are akin to a slide rule for math calculations. It just takes a little practice to learn them. Then you will say... "Duh! That's easy!"

Time and time again he's tried to explain how to use all these different measuring tools but I just can not get it. I sat and listened but it all sounded like Chinese to me. In other words, zero comprehension.

I will read that page you guys pointed me to over coffee today and see if I can get anything out of it.

Look at the ZERO marker on the lower scale. It lines up past 41 degrees on the upper scale. So we know that the angle is greater than 41 degrees. Look at all the other tick marks on the lower scale. Which one lines up with another tick mark on the upper scale? It is the "7", so the angle is 41° + 0.7° or 41.7°. (With my eyes, it looks to me that the "7" on the lower scale is lined up better than the "6" with the mark on the upper scale).

Anyway, hang on to that dish and mount! That's cool!

RADAR

If the weather improves today I'll go sit on the patio and study this thing. I suppose it might make more sense if I sit there and mess with it. I'll bring my tablet outside so I can read ya'lls advice while I look at the thing.

And I will definitely keep this dish. I hope to figure it out and I'm sure once I do it will end up being the better of the others. I think I have 4 or 5 Direcway dishes now but only one like this one..

Thanks guys..

 

[Dee_Ann]

I found a sticker on the bottom of the LNB arm and after some googling and reading through about 100 PDF's, I found THE instructions for this dish.

http://www.montanasatellite.com/manuals/DirecWay Enterprise Antenna Installation Manual.pdf

It was located here, Montana Satellite & Wireless - Downloads


I took a very high res photo of the tilt marks,



If you click this photo it will show you a 25mp image in scary detail.

I also took a photo of the skew marks, which I have no problem understanding them.




The instructions on setting the tilt and skew start on about page 25 (using their page numbers)

I'll consume this information as well and see if I can make any sense of this.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Dee,

With the more detailed, close up photo, I would now say that the dish elevation is set to 41.64° - 41.66°.
It is more than 41.6° and less than 41.7° and it seems to be nearly the same amount more as it is less.
So it is aligned nearer to 1/2 way between the 0.6 and 0.7 markers.

Sometimes it requires a bit of a judgement call on the part of the person interpreting the scale. In this case,
as it sits, I would have to interpret it to be 41.64°. With a typical "fancy-pants" inclinometer from the hardware
store, you wouldn't be able to judge the alignment as accurately as you can with this dish's own scaling.
Even with the +/- personal judgement errors in deciphering the scale / alignment you could not be more accurate.

Again, nice find on this dish / bracket, Dee!

RADAR

 

[Lone Cloud]

It appears to be a large, offset dish, sort of a larger version of a Directv or Dish dish. It isn't designed to track the arc, but to stay firm on one satellite. That would make sense for an internet link. On an offset dish, the whole thing twists as it tracks off of true south. This dish is designed for different longitudes, where the entire dish will be adjustable for the particular satellite.

The farther west (or east) of your longitude it points, the higher up the lnb arm will rise.

As far as those ten numbers on that tab at the bottom of the curved part, I bet those are meant for aiming in different latitudes.
It's obviously not a polar mount so I bet it's to get it roughly aimed.

 

[turbosat]

She should qualify for a NASA job once she masters that dish, lol.

 

[Dee_Ann]

It appears to be a large, offset dish, sort of a larger version of a Directv or Dish dish. It isn't designed to track the arc, but to stay firm on one satellite. That would make sense for an internet link. On an offset dish, the whole thing twists as it tracks off of true south. This dish is designed for different longitudes, where the entire dish will be adjustable for the particular satellite.

The farther west (or east) of your longitude it points, the higher up the lnb arm will rise.

As far as those ten numbers on that tab at the bottom of the curved part, I bet those are meant for aiming in different latitudes.
It's obviously not a polar mount so I bet it's to get it roughly aimed.

It is a Direcway/Hughesnet dish.

In this photo, there are two Direcway dishes with blue Maxwell House LNB covers. THIS dish is the one on the right.


I was using it previously for 97w which was super easy to align, I didn't use the scales on it at all, I used my meter to find and align the dish.
I just went by the numbers on the meter and paid no mind what-so-ever to the markings on the dish itself.

I took the dish down and redid ALL my ku dishes, I threw them all in a big bag and shook it all up. Every ku dish I had been using has been re-arranged and pointed to different satellites.
There of them, I converted to Dish Network.

But for some reason I had a very hard time aiming a different Direcway dish at 125 (PBS stuff). The dish I tried to aim this past weekend has a very, very cheap, low grade mounting and alignment mechanism on it.
There are no bolts you can crank on to adjust it, you loosen two bolts and the whole thing falls, just like the very cheapest Dish & Directv 18" commodity grade disposable dishes. Trying to align THAT dish was making me insane so I decided to chunk that one off to the side and give this one a try because it is highly adjustable, has bolts you can turn to make fine adjustments and apparently is designed to give you the ability to make very precise adjustments. But the goofy marks on it threw me off because I had never noticed them before.

Here's the two of them on my patio side by side. The one with the cheap/crummy adjustments is on the ground and the nicer on is on the NPRM.



I have learned through google that the dish with the precision adjustments is considered to be an "enterprise class" dish.
I guess it was used by a business rather than a residential customer.

 

[kodaz]

Dee, if you cannot figure out how to read the scale effectively, and only if,
the arrow in the attached pic will give you a ballpark point for setting up.
it wont be as super accurate as reading the Vernier scale, but it should make it reasonably ok.
Elevation in pic showing between 41 and 42 using the reference i have the arrow pointed at.

whatever bird you are trying to hit, set your elevation number to that point. Ballpark close at least.
nice find, i love cool brackets.

 

[turbosat]

Enterprise dish, or one of those used for the Ka band stuff. I have that direcway you said had the cheap, crummy adjustments lol.

 

[Cham]

That vernier scale is really cool... precision at it's full extent! I suppose it is great if you can get the pole PERFECTLY plumb and compensate for moment flexing due to the weight of the dish assembly. I can imagine trying to set it up when it's -30 outside and getting the clamp to hold it at 49.22 deg. Ouch.
I was looking into one of the satellite ISPs up here; the dish was a Ka but really cheap and too small for what they expected it to do. The upgrade to the larger dish and transceiver was about $600... I expect this would have been similar to the "upgrade" dish they were selling, not a lot bigger but much higher quality.
-C.

 

[Mauiguy]

Dee_Ann,

For the purposes of this note it would be a good idea to be out at the dish while reading this.
On the pictures you have posted there is an “upper scale” and a “lower scale”. The lower scale is the one with the numbers 0-9.

For simplicity sake consider that the “pointer” to be used to set the dish is the line with the number “0” on the lower scale.
So, if you wished to set the dish at 40 degrees, you would simply move the dish to where the “0” on the lower scale is pointing to the 40 on the upper scale.

Always use the “0” as the basic pointer. If you wanted to set the dish at 40.5 degrees, you would probably move the scales until you have the “0” pointed about midway between the 40 and the 41 on the upper scale.

For most of your measurements you can use it that way.
What the additional numbers are used for is a little greater degree of accuracy. Because our eyes cannot perfectly divide the distance between the marks on the upper scale in to ten equal parts, you are given the lower scale to be able to accomplish that task.

** you may or may not want to try this:*

Now let’s say you wanted to set your dish to 40.6 degrees. Hmm we know that the “point 6” is a little greater than midway between the 40 and 41 marks but it is very difficult to judge.
So you move the dish until you have the zero “0” pointed midway between the 40 and 41 marks. (if you are exactly at the midway mark, with the “0” you would notice that the “5” on the lower scale would be “exactly” lined up with a mark on the upper scale. (It makes no difference what mark the 5 is lined up with, as long as it is “perfectly” aligned with a mark on the upper scale and the “0”on the lower scale is midway between 40 and 41.

Now, if you wanted to get that measurement of 40.6, you are close and only need to move a little more until the “6” on the lower scale is aligned with a line on the upper scale.
One thing to be noted is that when you have one line on the lower scale perfectly aligned with a line on the upper scale, none of the other lines on the lower scale will be perfectly aligned with the lines on the upper scale. It is designed this way. The lines will be close to being aligned, but only one will be “Perfectly” aligned.
I know it is a little confusing, and I also know I have many machinists pulling out their hair with this explanation, but do hope it helps.