I'm a bit disappointed, someone tell me

[BK666]

Is this all that DISH NETWORK came up with and called it DishPro?

"Legacy LNBFs and switches can only transmit one polarity at a time down the feed cable to your receiver. Legacy switches and LNBFs use a voltage signal from your receiver to change the polarity of the LNBF it is connected to, 13 volts is odd, 18 volts is even. Since voltage will drop as the length of the cable gets longer, at some point the attenuation of the cable will drop the voltage from the receiver below 18 volts so that the LNBF can't switch to the even polarity even though the signal from the receiver is 18 volts the LNBF is only able to use the 13 volt or odd polarity.

DishPro is different as it will stack or transmit both even and odd signals down the same wire, by shifting the frequencies up so both polarities can travel the same feed to the receiver or switch. Since this is the case the LNBF doesn't need the receiver voltage to switch back and forth. A switch is necessary to be able to connect one stacked 119° feed and one stacked 110° feed to each receiver. The only way a legacy receiver will work with this arrangement of LNBFs and Dish Pro switches is with a DishPro adapter that can down convert the stacked frequencies to the standard odd or even only frequencies. Each legacy receiver has to use this adapter which must be installed within 10 feet of the receiver."

It's an old idea... It's something they should have done when they first started up..

I thought Dish Pro was something like moving into the more common, used in most of the parts of the world, the DiSEqC [protocol] for control, and what not.. I am not saying which system is better than the other, just that I was hoping for more.. . (Technically, you could push the envelope, so to speak, and call Dish's original way of communications with the equipment utilized DiSEqC, but it would be Dish's version.
"The Legacy Dish Network multi-dish switches - SW21, SW42, and SW64 - use a low bit rate (125 bps) serial protocol to control switching. The LNB control voltage is used to encode the logic level. Communication is unidirectional, from IRD to switch. The use of a serial protocol allows switches to be addressable. Each type of switch can be given a unique address that only it will respond to. The switch type can be identified and un-like switches (with different addresses) may be cascaded. The IRD must be aware of the possible types and arrangements of switches that could be connected - this requires a firmware update when new switch models are released. The IRD can identify what switches are present by sending a command to any possible switch address and detecting if the signal from the LNB changes. A change in signal indicates that a switch of the addressed type is present. " )

So, SOMEONE Please tell me this is not their only latest and greatest idea they came up with and called it DishPro, :shocked There is more, isn't there? Isn't There?.

 

[bcshields]

Yes... they have Dish pro Plus coming out soon.. The current two tuner recievers are geared for it. One tuner on the lower frequency, 2nd tuner on the higher frequency.

As far as I know, there isn't anyone else able to run two TV's on one wire.

 

[SimpleSimon]

To clarify, the 2 tuner receivers WILL be able to use DishProPlus, but some of them can NOT do it yet - software updates are needed.

And it's not 2 TV's on one wire, but 2 TUNERS.

Even so, E* did it wrong. They should've allowed each tuner to control it's own side of the shared cable so that 2 single tuner boxes could use it. It would NOT have been hard to do. DBS may be rocket science, but it ain't brain surgery.

 

[BK666]

In an ideal world ???

W/O any switching, technically u should be able to add what u want ( w/o switching would be 110 or 119 or LNB #3 ) But, If they did it that way, you would bring 3 wires into a switch on the inside of the house, or leave outside by or near the dish stuff itself. I would think, at that point you could or should be able to deliver to as many receivers as you wanted... or as much as dish limited you to. Ok, so tell me, is this in anyway what the DP34 switch does?

I also do not see why dual tuner IRD's would require two inputs, unless maybe you were trying to make it easier for the consumer and the second input would actually go to a third LNB. The signal in a LNB comes from the LNB is a block of frequency, placing the same sized block above it at different frequencies would allow for one wire. The IRD could have 2 or 2 dozen internal tuners (an exaggeration i know) AND still would have no need for 2 inputs.. BUT.. that's an 110 or 119 or 61.5... but with those three sets of outputs, you could be able to connect to the appropriate switch between the 110, 119 & 61.5.




NEVER watch tv and think at the same time..

 

[SimpleSimon]

Well, BK666, your ramblings are too hard to follow. But I see some phrases in there that make me think that maybe you're got PART of the idea of how things work, but only PART of it.

For example, you seem to think that both 110 and 119 is carried on the same cable at the same time. Untrue. A RG-6 2150MHz coax can carry TWO transponder bands. A band is half of one satellite - even or odd.

DishPro LNBFs put both bands on the wire at the same time.

DishProPlus is capable of putting ANY two available bands on the cable, not just the ones from the same satellite.

 

[BK666]

yeah, whatever..

and how does DP place the V and H of a satellite on one wire? It can't and I never said it could. Unless u took a block of frequencies and say doubled them.. so lets say for this discussion, 'H' is placed on 950MHZ to 1450MHZ and 'V' was placed on 1750 to 2250 MHZ ( I don't know the EXACT frequencies..nor do I care, just as long as they are different. ) Now u have ONE satellite on ONE wire... do this three times,( 110 is on one cable, the 119 is on one cable and LNB #3 is on one cable.)
u now have three coaxial cables. The packaging is different, but the technology is nothing new.


as for the average consumer, they don't give a *&^%$#@! just as long as they can plug it in, it works and when it is time to expand, it's SIMPLE



If I do not understand something my mind rips it apart till it does.. eventually it is translated into insomnia or I try and block it and change the subject.

 

[bcshields]

Ok, Some Dish 101.

Dish 500 = 119/110 Usually accessed with a Twin. Internal switching. Dishpro splits transponders on 2 frequencies, Legacy keeps the lower band. In both cases the reciever sends the request to the LNBF for the sat and transponder, and it sends the signal back. One signal per wire at one time. DishPro has the ability to handle two, but doesn't.

Dish pro plus has the ability to carry two frequencies on the same wire at the same time. Think of it as diplexing off air signals as how it's carried on the wire. One tuner has the lower band assigned to it, and the second tuner has the higher band assigned. Each tuner sends a signal to the LNBF for the Sat, TP, Freq, and it sends it back down.

How? Ancient Chinese Secret. Patented, no doubt.

 

[SimpleSimon]

BK666: I think I posted a reply to you in another thread that the DSS birds use circular polarization (Left & Right) instead of the older linear (Vertical & Horizontal). the concept as regards bands and switching is the same. You're very close on the frequencies - the high band is 1650-2150MHz. Finally, you nailed it - standard DishPro carries the entire satellite's signals on one feed cable by moving the even transponders to the high band.

bcshields: DishPro standard DOES put 2 signals on the wire at a time. This is why the higher-quality RG-6 is needed or you lose even numbered transponders and why the DishPro 3-bird switches only need 3 input cables while the Legacy switches need 6.

To the best of my knowledge, a DP Dual LNBF does NOT do ANY internal switching of bands. Twins & Quads switch birds when commanded.

DishProPLUS adds the capability of putting any single available band onto either of the 2 output bands. the DPP Separator un-diplexes the high-band to the second tuner, but it's important to note that the second tuner does NOT issue switching commands - the #1 tuner controls both. This is why the system will only work on a dual-tuner box as opposed to 2 single-tuner boxes.

 

[reedl]

Now u have ONE satellite on ONE wire... do this three times,( 110 is on one cable, the 119 is on one cable and LNB #3 is on one cable.)
u now have three coaxial cables. The packaging is different, but the technology is nothing new.

The only problem is that you still need some sort of switch to let the receiver select which satellite it wants to tune to. This switch is either internal to the receiver, or an external switch, but there has to be one somewhere. To put that switch in the receiver is not a very good idea simply because it limits the receiver to only that many satellite locations it can look it. E* right now has 61.5, 105, 110, 119, 121, and 148 in active use. That would result in 6 wires to every single receiver. Not something that most people would want at all, or would make the receiver too expensive for most people since it has this wiz-bang expensive switch installed in it.

as for the average consumer, they don't give a *&^%$#@! just as long as they can plug it in, it works and when it is time to expand, it's SIMPLE

You are correct, but DiSeq from what I know of it only allows two different satellite locations. Since E* has 6 now, that would certainly not work.

If I do not understand something my mind rips it apart till it does.. eventually it is translated into insomnia or I try and block it and change the subject.

huh?

Reedl

 

[red hazard]

DiSEqC

You are correct, but DiSeq from what I know of it only allows two different satellite locations. Since E* has 6 now, that would certainly not work.Reedl

DiSEqC 2.0 modulates a 22KHz tone with 4 different signals commonly referred to A, B, C, or D and can command an appropriate switch to select up to 4 different satellite LNBs. Presumably Echostar uses the DiSEqC commands.

 

[SimpleSimon]

It looks like this thread needs the attached document.

I'm not totally sure, but I think the selection is 4 per switch,
and switches are addressable, so there's lots of possibilities when
you consider cascading.

I tried to upload the DishPro tech document, but it's slightly too big.

 

[red hazard]

As currently deployed for home customers, DiSEqC is limited to four satellite LNBF inputs/outputs. The Europeans use Universal LNBFs for wider bandwidths than in CONUS which also requires switching information for changing between low and high bands in addition to the two polarizations. That's where the 4 different signaling states per LNBF comes from. DiSEqC sophistication is evolving by equipment manufactures.

It's doubtful DishPro will ever go beyond 4 satellite LNB inputs. Just a few experimenters like those coming to these DBS forums would use it and if E* does not provide the IRD software support, then it's a moot point.