I need a new TV! Looking for opinions!

[Foxbat]

With CES 2017 going on, if the OP is still looking for a TV, I noticed a lot of the online sellers are marking down their current lineups to prepare for the 2017 sets. You mention an Entertainment Center; what's the maximum width and height of the opening? With the current sets minimizing bezel sizes, you may find that the 47" HDTV of five years ago can be replaced by a 50" set today (if you can find that size!)

Also, listening to the CES 2017 coverage, if you can hold out for another year or two, the company that provides the quantum dots technology to the OEMs like Samsung, Sharp, HiSense, etc., is reportedly coming out with a new range of materials that will further increase color purity leading to the elimination of the color filters in an LCD panel, increasing brightness and energy efficiency.

I just did a quick search on one site for 48"-50" 1080 120Hz HDTVs and the Smart TVs were cheaper than the non-Smart version. They were also all Vizios for the under $500 group.

 

[TV Andriod / D*TV surfer]

Here's an excellent deal on a 50" UHD Samsung.
I see the price went up $220. Still not a bad deal.

Samsung KU 6290 may be decently cheaper, it's the same TV and panel minus bluetooth and a tier one brand 4K SDR set I would buy but I already have a 4K HDR Sony XBR and Samsung 1080p 64f8500 Plasma .and so on and Sony OLED may happen in here at some point .

For decent 4K SDR I would get the Samsung KU 6290 or the KU 6300 if I wanted bluetooth and not even consider a 1080p in 2017 noting both are 60Hz panels and HDTV upscaled to the 4K panel looks better on these TV's than a 1080p TV anyway and most of what 1080p that is left isn't bright and they are mostly blue light special rubbish now .

 

[harshness]

For decent 4K SDR I would get the Samsung KU 6290 or the KU 6300 if I wanted bluetooth and not even consider a 1080p in 2017 noting both are 60Hz panels and HDTV upscaled to the 4K panel looks better on these TV's than a 1080p TV anyway and most of what 1080p that is left isn't bright and they are mostly blue light special rubbish now .

Another thread had the question of whether HDR is worth it. The other side of the same coin is whether or not SDR is worth getting a new TV for.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Oled is the only way to go

 

[harshness]

Oled is the only way to go

Even the pundits admit that if the viewing area is well-lighted, OLED probably isn't in your best interest.

While OLED may have a few theoretical superiorities, it remains nowhere near the brightness of currently shipping LCD technologies and having umpteen shades of black doesn't win out.

 

[TV Andriod / D*TV surfer]

Another thread had the question of whether HDR is worth it. The other side of the same coin is whether or not SDR is worth getting a new TV for.

IMO both are good arguments depending on a purchaser's budget .

I fall on the Wide color gamut 4K HDR TV side because I can afford them as I replace TV's here that will be used for that or if I upgrade but with the state of broad market affordable HDR content and moreover ATSC 3.0 HDR HLG broadcasting off in the distance and the availability of 4K SDR YouTube , 4K SDR Netflix and 4K SDR Amazon for more constrained budgets like I had when I was younger I belive 4K SDR even upscaling 720p.1080i/1080p is a valid argument over a 1080p TV in 2017 .

Upscaled 4K SDR LCD looks better than 1080p LCD anyway .

 

[TV Andriod / D*TV surfer]

Both are good arguments depending on the purchaser's budget and use and for the budget TV play I think The 4K SDR Samsung product is the smart money and the 4K HDR Samsung KS 8000 is the WCG HDR TV smart money despite being a Sony 4K HDR XBR Fanboy here but 2017 may swing to Sony X850E /X900E for affordable good WCG HDR once the prices settle but I would be more interested in the Sony X1 xtreme 4K HDR X930E or a Sony OLED or 9ZD or 2019 LGD OLED TADF emitter panels in a Sony or LG OLED TV if they take care of the usual OLED issues

I fall on the 4K HDR wide color gamut side for at least a primary TV if one can afford it.

I have a 2015 4K HDR Sony XBR in here for my primary TV, the benefits of that and moreover wide color gamut are readily apparent at 480i on up to 4K HDR here. Any replacement TV or upgrade here will be 4K WCG HDR .

The 2015 4K WCG HDR Sony LED/LCD in here cured my plasma color volume jones when I had a 2013 Sony Bravia 1080p LED/LCD in here for the 1080p 64f8500 Samsung Plasma color volume out front here instead on all the content from 480i on up .

Real HDR processing 4K WCG HDMI 2.0a HEVC /VP9 decoding HDR TV product was not available before 2015 unless you wanted a compromise with an over priced 4K SDR TV before that and they weren't all that anyway those and the affordable 2014 4K SDR Sony XBR X800B and X850B were never updatable to HDR processing or HDMI 2.0 or anything like HEVC and VP9 anyway .

A 2014 65" Sony 4K SDR was 5 large on the street and my 64f8500 plasma is the better TV for half the money .

OTOH 2017 4K SDR is a good affordable argument for more constrained budgets given that HDR content and broadcast availability today at broad market scale beyond UHD BD or occasionally on IPTV is in the distance

Decently Upscaled HDTV looks better on a good 4K panel anyway .

4K SDR will be probably be more widely available on broadcast and CATV/SAT first and more than half the HDR content out there is rubbish HDR anyway .


I can only see 1080p for the most constrained budgets in 2017 good and bright 1080p TV's are vanishing or already gone.

 

[navychop]

Oled is the only way to go

I $howed my wife a couple OLEDs at MicroCenter today. We were impre$$ed. And the PQ was great, too!

$igh.

 

[harshness]

...ATSC 3.0 HDR HLG broadcasting off in the distance..

Two things:

o Hybrid Log-Gamma (HLG) is one particular method of achieving HDR so using them together is redundant

o If the content to be broadcast doesn't include HLG encoding, will they be able to synthesize it in real time from the available HDR information (HRD10, DV or a player to be named later)?

Thus far, it appears that HLG is not yet a real time process.

 

[TV Andriod / D*TV surfer]

AFAIK Hybrid Log-Gamma (HLG) is the ATSC 3.0 proposal under consideration maybe you know something my web links don't or no ? .


** HLG is supported by HDMI 2.0b, HEVC, and VP9 Freeview Play and YouTube.
HLG does not need to use metadata since it is compatible with both SDR displays and HDR displays. HLG can be used with displays of different brightness in a wide range of viewing environments.

** source -Wikipedia -

FCC Pushing for ATSC 3.0 Standard for Over-the-Air 4K Broadcasting With HDR
Some of the new broadcast content enhancements that would come with ATSC 3.0 implementation include the already-mentioned capacity for 4K resolution along with HDR (using new broadcast-friendly standards like Hybrid Log Gamma), higher frame rates for content, wide color gamut and even direct-to-mobile device broadcasts of next-generation over-the-air content.

All of these ATSC 3.0 enhancements are still a ways off and while the mainstream 4K TVs of 2017 that are now being released in the U.S don’t have ATSC 3.0 tuners, Televisions will start coming with them in 2018 or later if this new broadcast content standard becomes a consumer market reality. Furthermore, while ATSC 3.0 is not designed to be backwards compatible with ATSC 1.0


http://4k.com/news/fcc-pushing-for-...-over-the-air-4k-broadcasting-with-hdr-18459/

On April 18, 2016, the Ultra HD Forum announced their guidelines for UHD Phase A which includes support for HLG.

The Ultra HD Forum also defined HLG10 as HLG, a bit depth of 10-bits, and the Rec. 2020 color space.


On July 6, 2016, the ITU announced Rec. 2100 which defines two HDR transfer functions which are HLG and PQ

On November 17, 2016, the Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB) Steering Board approved UHD-1 Phase 2 with a HDR solution which supports Hybrid Log-Gamma (HLG) and Perceptual Quantizer (PQ)

The specification has been published as DVB Bluebook A157 and will be published by the ETSI as TS 101 154 v2.3.1.On January 3, 2017, LG

Corporation announced that their 2017 Super UHD TVs will support HLG.

On January 4, 2017, Panasonic announced that their 2017 OLED TV will support HLG.

On January 4, 2017, Sony announced that their 2017 OLED TVs will support HLG.

On January 4, 2017, Eutelsat announced that their Hot Bird video service would include the Travelxp 4K channel which uses HLG.

On January 5, 2017, JVC announced that their 2017 4K projectors will support HLG.

On January 10, 2017, LG Corporation announced that they will add support for HLG to their 2016 OLED TVs and their 2016 Super UHD TVs with a firmware update.

On January 16, 2017, Sony announced that they will add support for HLG to their 2017 4K TVs with a firmware update.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Log-Gamma#Technical_details

 

[harshness]

You've posted a whole lot of supporting information about ATSC 3.0 supporting HLG but that change the fact that HLG isn't being widely used. Movies don't come HLG ready. TV shows don't come HLG ready. It is questionable whether or not HLG can be synthesized in real time from an existing HDR scheme. HLG doesn't happen by accident and it isn't a side effect of an existing process.

So while the promoters talk a good talk about what is conceivable, they're not really telling us how they are going to make it happen.

 

[TV Andriod / D*TV surfer]

Two things:

o Hybrid Log-Gamma (HLG) is one particular method of achieving HDR so using them together is redundant

o If the content to be broadcast doesn't include HLG encoding, will they be able to synthesize it in real time from the available HDR information (HRD10, DV or a player to be named later)?

Thus far, it appears that HLG is not yet a real time process.

From your official link noting I was never referring to synthesize HDR content my TV can do all that ,
ATSC S34-168r8 Video – HEVC 17 January 2017
13
6.3.2.3 HLG transfer characteristics
For HDR video with the HLG transfer characteristics, the following constraints apply
read more :
http://atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/A341S34-168r8-Video-HEVC.pdf

 

[TV Andriod / D*TV surfer]

or maybe that was the FAA

You've posted a whole lot of supporting information about ATSC 3.0 supporting HLG but that change the fact that HLG isn't being widely used. Movies don't come HLG ready. TV shows don't come HLG ready. It is questionable whether or not HLG can be synthesized in real time from an existing HDR scheme. HLG doesn't happen by accident and it isn't a side effect of an existing process.

So while the promoters talk a good talk about what is conceivable, they're not really telling us how they are going to make it happen.

Noting I stated my links were unofficial :

TV manufacturers are biting anyway and then we had CBS spinning RGB filter wheel color and RCA electronic scan line CRT NTSC color and HD DVD and Blu Ray and so on maybe they will bribe someone

 

[harshness]

For HDR video with the HLG transfer characteristics, the following constraints apply

The key phrase there is "with HLG transfer characteristics". As there is currently no source for HLG encoded video, it doesn't matter whether they can transfer the data or not since it doesn't exist and it reportedly isn't trivial to synthesize from HDR10 or DV.

ATSC 3.0 is in a chicken and egg situation where they need to convince us that it ATSC 3.0 is a big step up for us while the repack will create a situation where they may not have enough bandwidth to deliver the potential wins that will entice us to upgrade our tuners. I think they're making a big, possibly fatal, mistake not allowing for HDR and WCG at lower resolutions because, as we've discussed, those features will consume entire RF channels when combined with their requisite 3840x2160p resolution.

 

[TV Andriod / D*TV surfer]

I only know what I read about ATSC 3.0 ,HLG HDR and so on and only what I can understand of all that and that might not always be right .

Nothing interesting for me OTA ouside of sports and 4 weekly procedural dramas on the alphabet networks .

.There are about 4 hours of primetime alphabet network programming I watch or record to D*TV Genie HR 54 DVR .

The rest feeding the 55" 4K HDR Sony in here is Roku .The Sony TV Android platform apps like Youtube ,Netflix,Amazon Prime up to 4K HDR ,Hulu Plus ,Vudu HDX ,Bloomberg, Android Kodi,2160p Windows 10 and so on , 217 Installed Roku Channels in the hockey puck and my media drives up to high bit rate 4K HDR eye candy and stock footage and OTA locals for sports telecasts or the 4 Prime time shows .

Not surprised that traditional TV viewing is declining ,the alphabet networks are deliberately ignorant deserts devoid of much beyond rubbish for the poverty stricken huddled masses ,mindless revisionist history education oppressed proletariat and the PC brainwashed snowflakes .

ATSC 3.0 changes nothing here beyond what I watch out of that ignorant intellectually devoid desert.

It may change some local major league sports or Stanford and UC ball if they are on locally and the 4 alphabet network shows.


TBH HDR ain't always all that and most of the time it isn't outside of an HDR Blue Ray and even those vary and can be from 2K intermediates anyway .

HDR varies from excellent to rubbish with any given production that may just as well be having me on my 1080p Roku instead for the same program or movie if the TV Anrdoid browser in my 4K HDR Sony XBR won't spring me out from locked in HDR jail on a given program , .it doesn't always turn HDR on and off or turn it off when it turns it on, ever seen a solarized weather channel babe ?

This TV is HDR 10 only .I 'm sure My PC can work around that with the right HDCP 2.2 HDR d/GPU if I don't upgrade this TV like I usually do at ~2 years maybe 3 this time ,I'm 15 months into this one now and it's doing very well against 2016 HDR product and its better than a lot of it even the same 2016 Sony .


Upgrading bt 709 rubbish to wide color ~DCI in the Sony XBR is the imperative here given the state of HDR and why I bought it along with the HDD and IPTV hires eye candy and decent 4K Youtube which is getting plentiful now .

If you have 4K WCG HDR or 4K SDR with the piss poor blue LED lamps with yellow phosphor and poor color volume because of that like any blue lamp LED here is an eye candy spot for downloads, lots of TV factory demos and so on up to 4K HDR and 8K.

I have all the good stuff there and lots of other good stuff on my hires eye candy HDD's .

Major free 4K eye candy downloads

http://demo-uhd3d.com/index.php

 

[TV Andriod / D*TV surfer]

FWIW I predict 8K TV will be a bust and only for nuevo rich peasants bragging rights and maybe spendy medical imaging due to lack of content and content delivery outside of Japan and some other Asian regions ,the Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer yachts , Larry Ellison's Forbidden Island and maybe Dubai in the Emirates , Trump Force One and The new B2 Spirit Bomber airframe USAF ONE .....,Zuckerberg probably uses VR headsets or his own Digital IMAX anyway

 

[harshness]

Capability doesn't mean success or even a modest run at delivering something new and compelling. Remember 3D televisions? If you do, you should probably write down what you remember for posterity because they are history.

 

[TV Andriod / D*TV surfer]

Capability doesn't mean success or even a modest run at delivering something new and compelling. Remember 3D televisions? If you do, you should probably write down what you remember for posterity because they are history.

Right , I have 2 the Samsung 64f8500 plasma and the 2015 Sony 4K HDR is also 3D but I never use 3D and never tried it on either one.

You are right 3DTV going the way of HD DVD and 8K on the broad market will be like the Ford Motor Edsel Mcnamara hated and wouldent support and that killed it .while the millennials will still be buying mobiles or 4K oled super thin or flexible or something else .

Edsel was a cross between a Ford and Mercury like an like an upscale from a Ford but not quite a Mercury with its own trim and style cues .

By 1960 there was nothing wrong with the Edsel beyond a shifting market and it was the wrong product at the wrong time and not marketed well and way too close to the Mercury price as opposed to the Ford product that was ugly too anyway outside of the Ford Sunliner and 4 seat T bird (the first gen.big Bird )and the only big one I like they got way to fat after that .

The absurd Edsel horsecollar grill was gone by 1960 but Mcnamara perhaps wisely killed it given the compounding errors and bad timing and then he went on and ultimately probably kept us out of WWIII during the 10 days of October I rember all too well anyway .

They don't teach any of that anymore , I grew up then anyway .