HR24 Washed Image Discussion

[gadgtfreek]

Anyone noticed, that since moving from another HR, to the 24, that the image quality has decreased, and sometimes appears washed?

It's been apparent to me since day one, but I've been quiet because I wanted to see what came of it. More and more folks are making the same comments and thread posting the same thing. It's also been confirmed that the HR24 outputs RGB, as opposed to YCbCr 4:4:4, and I have to wonder if this is part of it.

I know many are gonna say they don't have an issue, but there is enough people noticing it now.

I wonder, would a component cable work better with RGB than HDMI? I dunno enough about RGB to comment. As far as I'm concerned, it can't be a coincidence though (RGB and washed out look).

It's funny, one big comment from early testers was, "it looks different, you may need to recalibrate your tv".

I may be moving the HR22 back in to the living room. Maybe this is something the DVDO can fix.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Well, in my readings I found something, and it may be what some of our problems are:

HDMI Enhanced Black Levels, xvYCC and RGB — Reviews and News from Audioholics

Many of your displays can accept a RGB 0-255 signal. However, if you are using your receiver as an HDMI switcher, there may be a bottleneck. For some reason, many receiver manufacturers have strictly limited their receiver HDMI inputs to a 16-235 range for RGB. This means that if you set your source to output RGB, it will be sending a signal to your receiver that will be truncated before it is sent to the display. If you use this signal to calibrate your black levels, your black levels will be off and it's likely you won't see the Blacker-than-Black pattern from test discs.

I have to wonder if the Denon is the problem now? I do have the DVDO going in this week, so maybe I should wait. Kinda irritated about the whole thing.

 

[DJ Rob]

Interesting...My Denon receiver has an HDMI output setting for the color space. RGB or YCbCr. RGB can be regular or enhanced. I'll change them and see if I get different results once I get a working HR24.

I did try my HR24 directly to my Sansung Plasma and it did look the same though with the issues I brought up in the other thread (black levels off, etc.).

 

[gadgtfreek]

Yeah, thats what Im looking into now. I've seen a few more "washed out comments" creep up lately, so it's not just me. Either it's the new chip, or more likely it's how people's setups are handling the RGB output of the HDDVR. Why they went this route I have no idea.

 

[Jimbo]

What happens if you use HDMI strictly ?

 

[tripletlex]

I've held off on getting the 24 until this issue is diagnosed/resolved.

It sounds like the 24 may be outputting PC levels RGB 0-255 (Enhanced) instead of Video levels RGB 16-235 (Regular). For diagnostic purposes, try setting the Denon to RGB enhanced.

My DVDO Edge has as option to override color space received from a HDMI source and use the color space I specify (YCbCr 4:4:4). Your DVDO Duo should have the same option. Main Menu>Settings>Advanced Controls>Input Color Space.

Let us know your results after you get the DVDO in your system.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Well short term, HR24 went to the bedroom, and I think Triple is onto the problem, at least from my reading. The DVDO would most likely fix it, but to be honest, Im tired of not recording OTA channels reliably.

My OTA channels look noticeably better than Directvs mpeg4 stations, so I moved the HR22 that was in the bedroom back in the living room (used to be in living room). I am gonna run it that way until they fix the OTA issue on the HR24.

It's a fast unit, but once again, new piece of equipment not beta tested well. I wonder why they chose to go RGB, knowing it could cause some folks issues.

 

[gadgtfreek]

For anyone thats interested, a guy at DBS with a pre/pro just posted this:

DVDO Input
Video Source : HR24 (Auto)
Signal Type : 1080i 60hz
Color Space : RGB (Video, 24-bit)
Sync Type : +H / +V
Aspect Ratio : 16:9 (Auto)
HDCP : Off
PReP : Off
Game Mode : Off
Audio Source : HDMI (Dolby or DTS)

DVDO Input
Video Source : HR22 (Auto)
Color Space : YCbCr444 (BT.709, 24-bit)
Sync Type : +H / +V
Aspect Ratio : 16:9 (Auto)
HDCP : Off
PReP ; Off
Game Mode : Off
Audio Source : HDMI (Dolby or DTS)

DBSTalk.Com - View Single Post - HR24-100 Soft Picture Quality

 

[DJ Rob]

I just got 2 new HR24-500's and an HR24-100.

The -100 looks great and does not show any of the issues I've seen with the -500's (washed out color, not very black blacks, jagged video when viewing SD at 1080i original format).

So I wonder if it is just the -500's that are RGB? I wonder if a different chipset is being used between these?

 

[gadgtfreek]

Interesting, dunno.

I moved the HR24 back to the living room to test it with the pre/pro. Covert Affairs recording was razor sharp and colorful, close to OTA quality on the HR22. On HR24, it's nice, but not as much color or sharpness as the HR22.

 

[DJ Rob]

Yeah my HR21's are a lot sharper than my HR24's. The HR24-100 does seem a little better in picture quality than the HR24-500 but it could be me just hoping

 

[gadgtfreek]

I'm trying to decide what to do now. HR24 lacks in PQ, can't record OTA reliably, but is faster. HR22 looks better, can record OTA, but is painfully slow, especially when you throw in the AM21.

I may just get a TiVo Premier XL for OTA, and trade the HR24 in for a H24, and throw the AM21 against the side of the trash truck when it comes by...

 

[DJ Rob]

I have both hooked up and use the HR24 until I know I'm going to watch something for at least an hour, then I'll use the HR21 for better picture quality. Hopefully they can do something about the lack of sharpness with a firmware update.

 

[gadgtfreek]

I've been looking, and I think I'm gonna get a TivoHD XL for the OTA, and use the HR22 for satellite recordings. I'll set them both up in the liv room, and send the HR24 back. Save me $8/month.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Someone's posted today on AVS in a new thread, stating the same thing, "washed out". Gonna be interesting to see how this goes, but I'm not waiting to find out.

TiVo HD XL is now ordered for OTA, and HR24 will be deactivated and shipped back late this week. I'll have an AM21 in the Satguys classifieds this weekend

 

[ronaldheft]

I hope this issue is fixed soon. My TV provides no options to override the color space, so I'm stuck with this annoyingly washed out image.

 

[wildbill129]

My HR24 looks fine, (outstanding actually) as good as my HR20 and my HR21....glad I am not experiencing your issues....

BTW....I'm strictly using HDMI through an Oppo HDMI switch...

 

[gadgtfreek]

It's either some faulty chips ( I dont think so because it doesn't look THAT bad), or the way RGB is handled. Dunno if the other HR24 models put out RGB yet.