HR24 vs H24 PQ Difference

[acostapimps]

I've notice that the H24 HD receiver picture quality looks sharper and more text detailed than the HR24, and I'm using the same HDMI cable directly to Samsung Plasma TV, On the HR24 I've used an EHD WD 1 TB and picture quality is not that great during dark scenes but its not too bad, I see some artifacts in gray background and white and soft and some black crush picture I believe that's the word, And I'm using the same TV settings on both receivers. What is the issue so to speak on the HR24 than the H24?

 

[Jimbo]

I've notice that the H24 HD receiver picture quality looks sharper and more text detailed than the HR24, and I'm using the same HDMI cable directly to Samsung Plasma TV, On the HR24 I've used an EHD WD 1 TB and picture quality is not that great during dark scenes but its not too bad, I see some artifacts in gray background and white and soft and some black crush picture I believe that's the word, And I'm using the same TV settings on both receivers. What is the issue so to speak on the HR24 than the H24?

However, your using different inputs ... regardless of your TV settings , you'll want to fine tune each input separately, see if that helps.

 

[texasbrit]

It is actually a TV/receiver problem. The HR24 outputs a signal using a 15-235 RGB color space (sometimes called RGB Normal)rather than a YCbCr color space which the other DVRs/receivers use. This should not be a problem since all TVs are supposed to automatically detect color space and adjust accordingly. However, it seems that all plasmas to a particular design (starting with the Pioneer Kuro and moving through some (not all) Panasonic and Samsung equivalents) have an issue in that they don't detect this correctly, and the result is that black levels are all screwed up and (for some unknown reason) people also report loss of sharpness. You can get the same issue with some A/V receivers when you passthru the HDMI signal to the TV.
There is apparently a setting on the TV for black level where you can manually set the TV to expect 15-235, but I don't have one of the problem TVs so can't confirm that. The only other solution is to replace the HR24 with one of the other DVRs which don't output 15-235 RGB. As far as I know,the other HR2x series all output YCbCr. Don't know about the HR34 though.

 

[acostapimps]

I'm using the same TV input when swapping both HR24 and H24 receiver, and on the same calibrated TV settings that I haven't change anything. As I said I see artifacts and black crush on dark scenes and gray or white background on some national cable channels, but not really noticeably bad mostly on locals which I know it varies by market. I maybe think it could possibly be the external drive or probably bad esata cable (I'm using a Western Digital 1TB ) which I don't see why would it have to do anything with picture quality. But the H24 HD receiver doesn't have those picture issues maybe little artifacts but nothing major.

 

[texasbrit]

Did you read my post?

 

[Jimbo]

It is actually a TV/receiver problem. The HR24 outputs a signal using a 15-235 RGB color space (sometimes called RGB Normal)rather than a YCbCr color space which the other DVRs/receivers use. This should not be a problem since all TVs are supposed to automatically detect color space and adjust accordingly. However, it seems that all plasmas to a particular design (starting with the Pioneer Kuro and moving through some (not all) Panasonic and Samsung equivalents) have an issue in that they don't detect this correctly, and the result is that black levels are all screwed up and (for some unknown reason) people also report loss of sharpness. You can get the same issue with some A/V receivers when you passthru the HDMI signal to the TV.
There is apparently a setting on the TV for black level where you can manually set the TV to expect 15-235, but I don't have one of the problem TVs so can't confirm that. The only other solution is to replace the HR24 with one of the other DVRs which don't output 15-235 RGB. As far as I know,the other HR2x series all output YCbCr. Don't know about the HR34 though.

My Pioneer Kuro Elite has Black level adjustments, but they are not labeled like what you mentioned.

 

[texasbrit]

No, you are correct they are not labelled like that. Something like "black level"

 

[Jimbo]

No, you are correct they are not labelled like that. Something like "black level"

Yes, it's Black Level, ON or OFF
However, inside the menus of the Pioneer Elite are a bunch of other options as well ... many of which I have No Idea about.

I DO know that my set looks DAMN good !

 

[acostapimps]

Did you read my post?

Yes I read your post but Samsung has its black level greyed out in the menu, and yes the color space from each receiver is different, but what I find strange is H24 on the same channel looks good but on HR24 on EHD looks acceptable but nowhere like the H24, keep in mind that nothing was changed on the tv settings besides removing one receiver and connecting the other. but for now ill just leave the HD receiver connected to the Samsung and change the HR24 to another TV, and just watch recordings through MRV from the HR24

 

[Jimbo]

Yes I read your post but Samsung has its black level greyed out in the menu, and yes the color space from each receiver is different, but what I find strange is H24 on the same channel looks good but on HR24 on EHD looks acceptable but nowhere like the H24, keep in mind that nothing was changed on the tv settings besides removing one receiver and connecting the other. but for now ill just leave the HD receiver connected to the Samsung and change the HR24 to another TV, and just watch recordings through MRV from the HR24

Are you saying if you move the HR24 to a different set and watch it via MRV on the Samsung, it looks better ?

 

[acostapimps]

Are you saying if you move the HR24 to a different set and watch it via MRV on the Samsung, it looks better ?

No just simply swapping the receivers and sharing the playlist

 

[texasbrit]

You're missing the point here. The color space on the H24 and the HR24 are different, the HR24 is the only one using 16-235 so the H24 will look fine. You need to find out how to "ungrey" the color space setting on the Kuro, should be in your manual or you can ask in one of the web forums. From what I have read, there should be an "auto" setting on the TV which is the one that does not work correctly. You need to find the setting for RGB 16-235 and use that.
There have been posts about this issue since 2010.

 

[acostapimps]

You're missing the point here. The color space on the H24 and the HR24 are different, the HR24 is the only one using 16-235 so the H24 will look fine. You need to find out how to "ungrey" the color space setting on the Kuro, should be in your manual or you can ask in one of the web forums. From what I have read, there should be an "auto" setting on the TV which is the one that does not work correctly. You need to find the setting for RGB 16-235 and use that.
There have been posts about this issue since 2010.

There is a settings for color space that is set to native but doesn't look any different if any to when it's set to auto, by the way it's a Samsung plasma not Kuro, There is a service menu that I can access but don't want to mess anything up.

 

[texasbrit]

Sorry, Samsung. Kuro, Panasonic, Samsung all use basically similar technology. Panasonic was licensed from Pioneer, assume Samsung did the same.