How things have changed

[Yespage]

I have a suggestion, and that is all it is: If you don't like Bruce's postings simply put him on ignore or don't read them . There is little reason to attack any poster on Satellite Guys. If you have a problem with any post report that post and let the powers that be handle it.

Isn't this the first post in the thread?

 

[comfortably_numb]

Isn't this the first post in the thread?

I guess the joke's on me, but it's still funny

 

[Bruce]

First, you make the amateurish conclusion that a trend goes on forever. Nope. Not that long ago, 99% of people had three choices for TV.

That is correct, just 8 years ago, Cable and Satellite had 100 Million Subscribers, now at 52 Million, YTTV, Hulu Live and the rest has 13 million.

Second, this is not a trend, the numbers of those leaving Paid Live TV are increasing every year

Here-
2019-4.9 million
2020-5.1 million
2021-5.2 million left
2022-5.9 Million left
2023 estimated 7-8 million will leave ( first quarter is over 2.1 million).

Cable, which was generally poor; DISH, which (back then) was a little better but always aimed at the discount market; and DirecTV which was (and remains) the best for those who simply want it all.

That is your opinion, I think DirecTV is way overpriced, especially with their dated equipment.

The came other options. Two really. One is streaming linear packages like YTTV.

A much superior service, specially at it’s price, unlimited DVR, 3 streams(with no box fees), 1080P picture and Dolby Digital+ sound.

Different mixes of channels, and, and this is important, mostly with less sports because sports are a main driver of costs in this industry.

The majority do not care about sports, if they did, DirecTV would not have loss and continues to lose so many subscribers.

The other is simply doing without linear TV at all and relying on the (unprofitable) streaming services. This is again mostly about sports and its costs, but also just general cheapness. Every cord switcher post includes the phrase "I don't miss ________ that much".

In the next two years, some Traditional Providers will become un or less profitable, Dish Network just reported theirs, net profit 1st quarter 2023 was, roughly, $200 million, a year ago, same quarter, $400 million, also reported that had nothing to do with the hack.

OK, now everyone has chosen. MOST people are going with a form of linear TV and supplementing with some streamers.

Most people have not chosen, hence why Traditional Providers sub numbers keep going down and most streaming services keep going up.

A significant number of people are living on streaming only. A significant number of people are happy with linear TV only. The point you miss is, everyone has picked what works for them. The idea that linear TV, or even DBS or cable, will dwindle down to zero is just wrong.

Never said it will dwindle down to zero, but it could dwindle down enough to be unprofitable.

The smart companies in this are Sony and Fox. They are not jeopardizing their entire corporations in what may, very well be, a vain attempt to make money at something that simply is not a thing that makes money.

Fox lost $50 million in the first quarter 2023 due to the loss of per sub fees and less from Advertising, at first they tried to say it was due to the settlement, but since that was not until April, said that will be reported in the 2nd quarter.

Do not have Sony’s numbers yet.

But the point is not that. The point is that this is a diverse and huge country. What works for YOU is different from what other people might want. YOU are not the early adopter and the rest of us rubes and hicks will figure it out someday. Everyone has picked. And, as you say, this is the "cord cutter" forum (which is woefully misnamed, BTW). The other posters here discuss content, good shows, bad shows, tech help, discounts, what service is the one with the good shows next month. You post, over and over, that streaming only is the only choice for everyone.

Never have I said what I pick is better then others or the only choice, I follow the numbers, not just what I like, the numbers show the train had left the station, it is almost at the halfway mark on it’s route and picking up speed, quite quickly.

 

[comfortably_numb]

Never have I said what I pick is better then others or the only choice

I'm not gonna go digging through old posts, but I'm pretty sure you have said that..

 

[dishdude]

I have to disagree that everyone has already settled on a service format. If we all had, why are the numbers for each service still going up and down so much. If everyone had already picked, the numbers should be fairly stable with just the competitive churn numbers within the each service format changing for the most part.

I don't think we'll ever see stability in the subscriber numbers, it's super simple to subscribe and cancel these live TV services unlike with cable and satellite that required a technician to come to the house and connect everything up. Some people would just providers for discounts, but most people didn't think the hassle was worth it.

As for Netflix, Max, Disney, etc, I think we'll see people subscribe for month, binge watch and then cancel and move on to the next.

 

[rvvaquero]

There are, now, 129 Million Households in the United States.

In 2015, there were 100 Million Cable/Sat Subscribers , no streaming Live TV Service.

Today, there are 66 Million Live TV subscribers, including Cable, Satellite and Streaming.

Roughly, Streaming Live TV has 14 Million subs including all of them.

So that means, Cable/Satellite now has, roughly, 51 Million Households

I'm not criticizing, so don't get bent out of shape.

You seem to use "Households" and "Subscribers" interchangeably. I'm curious, do the subscriber numbers contain commercial accounts, motel/hotel, restaurants, bars, waiting rooms, etc. If so, do you know how many of these types there are, which really wouldn't fall under households?

It just seems to me that nearly every business you go into nowadays has live TV going. This would make the Household numbers even lower than 51 million, if that Subscriber number includes commercial accounts.

 

[Bruce]

I'm not gonna go digging through old posts, but I'm pretty sure you have said that..

I have never written that, or criticize if someone likes a particular streaming service or Traditional.

I have criticized the companies for certain Business Decisions, like Cable or DirecTV charging a RSN Fee with no option to get rid of that channel if you never watch it.

Just as I celebrated Dish for getting rid of the RSNs and the numbers proved it was a correct decision, DirecTV has a much higher percentage of those who have left then Dish.

I have also criticized the companies for other bad decisions on their part, like how old DirecTV equipment is becoming or the recent decision for DirecTV to charge the same for their streaming version as the satellite service.

 

[Bruce]

I'm not criticizing, so don't get bent out of shape.

You seem to use "Households" and "Subscribers" interchangeably. I'm curious, do the subscriber numbers contain commercial accounts, motel/hotel, restaurants, bars, waiting rooms, etc. If so, do you know how many of these types there are, which really wouldn't fall under households?

no, business is not included.

And households is the true number, for example Dish now has, roughly, 7 Million Subscribers, which are Households.

It just seems to me that nearly every business you go into nowadays has live TV going. This would make the Household numbers even lower than 51 million, if that Subscriber number includes commercial accounts.

I never pay attention to the business side, I know they pay a much higher rate depending on how many patrons.

 

[rvvaquero]

no, business is not included.

And households is the true number, for example Dish now has, roughly, 7 Million Subscribers, which are Households.

I never pay attention to the business side, I know they pay a much higher rate depending on how many patrons.

Thanks.

I searched for 30 minutes (I'm not good at it). I couldn't find any numbers at all on commercial TV subscribers. It seems like the numbers would be significant, yet all the articles I read referred to subscribers and households as if they are one and the same.

There aren't many businesses today which don't have at least one TV going in the building. I guess my grocery store is the only one I can think of right away which doesn't. That's a lot of "subscribers" out there to not be included in the statistics.

 

[NYDutch]

I don't think we'll ever see stability in the subscriber numbers, it's super simple to subscribe and cancel these live TV services unlike with cable and satellite that required a technician to come to the house and connect everything up. Some people would just providers for discounts, but most people didn't think the hassle was worth it.

As for Netflix, Max, Disney, etc, I think we'll see people subscribe for month, binge watch and then cancel and move on to the next.

As I said, "...just the competitive churn numbers within the each service format changing for the most part." I fully expect to see the individual streaming service provider numbers changing as people settle in with their likes and dislikes, but that's within the streaming format. What we're still seeing in significant numbers, are people moving between formats, with streaming seeing overall gains and losses as are satellite and cable services. I fully expect to see significant changes within the streaming format as the dust starts to settle and more consolidation kicks in. Dish and DTV are still signing new subscribers, although I expect some portion of those are returning former subscribers not happy with streaming or just OTA. Yes, the drop out numbers exceed the new signups, but the numbers just show that not everyone has made a choice and stuck to it.

 

[Bruce]

Thanks.

I searched for 30 minutes (I'm not good at it). I couldn't find any numbers at all on commercial TV subscribers. It seems like the numbers would be significant, yet all the articles I read referred to subscribers and households as if they are one and the same.

The numbers are in the Quarterly Reports, I just never pay attention to it.

There aren't many businesses today which don't have at least one TV going in the building.

I was at a dealership a few months ago in Orlando, they were using YTTV in the waiting room, I know they are not supposed to, but they were.

The Dealership I went to back in Michigan just used OTA.

I guess my grocery store is the only one I can think of right away which doesn't. That's a lot of "subscribers" out there to not be included in the statistics.

Actually it is not a lot, for example total Bars in the United States is just 70,000 and not all of them have DirecTV of Course.

Of those, 42.8% identified their venues as nightclubs; 70.6% of them described their hotspots as dance clubs. Of those identifying their venue as bars, 31.7% are sports bars and 29.3% are traditional bar/taverns. DJs and live entertainment are featured by 88.3% and 73.6% of total respondents, respectively. Nearly 80% offer a dance floor, 70.1% provide VIP areas and 65% offer bottle service.

So, roughly, 21,000 are Sports Bars and I assume all of them have DirecTV.

Then for Casinos, I found this-In 2021, there were 466 commercial casinos operating in the country.

I assume all of them have DirecTV.

Basically we are under 22,000 and then little amounts from other business, like some restaurants, but total number of those is under a million and not all will have DirecTV, Dave’s and Busters yes, Dennys and the Waffle House, no.

 

[Bruce]

As I said, "...just the competitive churn numbers within the each service format changing for the most part." I fully expect to see the individual streaming service provider numbers changing as people settle in with their likes and dislikes, but that's within the streaming format. What we're still seeing in significant numbers, are people moving between formats, with streaming seeing overall gains and losses as are satellite and cable services. I fully expect to see significant changes within the streaming format as the dust starts to settle and more consolidation kicks in. Dish and DTV are still signing new subscribers, although I expect some portion of those are returning former subscribers not happy with streaming or just OTA. Yes, the drop out numbers exceed the new signups, but the numbers just show that not everyone has made a choice and stuck to it.

As I have written before, sooner or later Cable and Satellite churn should slow down when we hit that mark of those who are happy with the service.

We just are not there yet, but will it slow down before it is unprofitable.

Altice ( the #4 Cable Company in subscriber numbers) has just announced they are either getting rid of or outsourcing their video service because it is unprofitable, they will just provide broadband

Frontier, Wide Open West and Fios has announced the same or already done so.

Depending on their profits and how many they lose, Comcast and Charter will be thinking about the same, but that is years away.

Dish and DirecTV do not have broadband to fall back on like Cable does.

 

[Bruce]

Writing about how things have changed, CBS Fall schedule has come out, starting to cut back on new programming , Sat and Sunday, putting reruns on instead-

SATURDAY
8 pm Drama encores
9 pm Drama encores
10 pm 48 Hours

SUNDAY
7 pm 60 Minutes
8 pm MATLOCK (WATCH TRAILER)
9 pm The Equalizer (new time slot)
10 pm Drama encores

 

[rvvaquero]

Writing about how things have changed, CBS Fall schedule has come out, starting to cut back on new programming , Sat and Sunday, putting reruns on instead

Could that be because of the strike?

 

[Bruce]

Could that be because of the strike?

No, networks have been wanting to cut back for about 2 years now.

For CBS , can see the 10pm hour on Sundays held because of Football game if it runs late.

Saturday surprised me, they could of put movies up in that 2-3 hour time slot , save 48 hours for another night or to be used as a fill in after they cancel something, it is not like they do not have a movie library since they own Paramount.

Only 2 New Series in the Fall for CBS.

About a year or 2 ago, NBC announced they were going to give the 10pm hour to the locals, then walked it back.

So we will see what happens when ABC and NBC announce their Fall Schedules.

 

[klang]

Could that be because of the strike?

Of course it is because of the strike.

 

[Bruce]

Of course it is because of the strike.

CBS Unveils Fall 2023 Schedule That Doesn’t Factor In Strike Impact​

CBS Unveils Fall 2023 Schedule That Doesn’t Factor In Strike Impact: 90-Minute ‘Survivor’ & ‘Amazing Race’, Newbies ‘Matlock’ & ‘Elsbeth’

In May 2020, CBS announced what then-CBS Entertainment President Kelly Kahl called “‘fall’ schedule with quotes,” featuring the shows they wanted without knowing when each w…

deadline.com

 

[Jimbo]

The numbers are in the Quarterly Reports, I just never pay attention to it.

I was at a dealership a few months ago in Orlando, they were using YTTV in the waiting room, I know they are not supposed to, but they were.

The Dealership I went to back in Michigan just used OTA.

Actually it is not a lot, for example total Bars in the United States is just 70,000 and not all of them have DirecTV of Course.

Of those, 42.8% identified their venues as nightclubs; 70.6% of them described their hotspots as dance clubs. Of those identifying their venue as bars, 31.7% are sports bars and 29.3% are traditional bar/taverns. DJs and live entertainment are featured by 88.3% and 73.6% of total respondents, respectively. Nearly 80% offer a dance floor, 70.1% provide VIP areas and 65% offer bottle service.

So, roughly, 21,000 are Sports Bars and I assume all of them have DirecTV.

Then for Casinos, I found this-In 2021, there were 466 commercial casinos operating in the country.

I assume all of them have DirecTV.

Basically we are under 22,000 and then little amounts from other business, like some restaurants, but total number of those is under a million and not all will have DirecTV, Dave’s and Busters yes, Dennys and the Waffle House, no.

Only 77,000 bars in the USA ??????

That seems Way low.

 

[Jimbo]

Writing about how things have changed, CBS Fall schedule has come out, starting to cut back on new programming , Sat and Sunday, putting reruns on instead-

SATURDAY
8 pm Drama encores
9 pm Drama encores
10 pm 48 Hours

SUNDAY
7 pm 60 Minutes
8 pm MATLOCK (WATCH TRAILER)
9 pm The Equalizer (new time slot)
10 pm Drama encores

What does the schedule look like for the M-F segment...
I can understand not putting your best shows on over the weekend, most people have Other things they do on the weekends.
Sunday in particular is where shows have gone for a few decades now to die.

I see you posted the weekday schedule in the next post ....

There are some I watch, but most of it, I do not ....

Most are OUT with me as I don't watch anything that is Reality as nothing is REAL.

 

[primestar31]

Only 77,000 bars in the USA ??????

That seems Way low.

Piff, there's probably that many in Michigan alone! lol

Some towns might have only ONE building left, but I'll pretty much guarantee you, that building is a bar!