I just find it hard to believe that once consumers know about all of these charges that this thing is gonna work. Just wait until cable understands all of this. They are gonna have an advertising blitz on it.
How long will the lease model last?
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Even if you assume that the D* and E* leasing deals are similar, the one big difference is that D8 is sold by monkeys at BB and CC. Many of these reps barely know how to turn on some of the equipment, much less be able to explain a lease. So I predict many customer complaints will come from not fully being explained the terms they were agreeing to.vurbano said:
I know, I know, its all in the agreement, but how many people are going to: A) take time to read it in the store, and B) understand it if they did read it.
So what are BB and CC's reactions going to be when some of these customers come complaining to them? Or blaming them. I really can't see these large retailers being happy about it.
DO I understand this correctly? If I, an existing customer BUY a new HR10-250 from BB, CC, newegg, buy.com, solid signal, VE or ebay I do not own it? And am subject to the 250 dollar equipment cancellation fee? And I have to send it to D* if I cancel their service? If thats the case I feel its fraud or false advertising and the store should have to display "UPFRONT EQUIPMENT LEASE COST" next to the price since it is NOT a purchase price.
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I think you would own that one.vurbano said:
Good point about the posted pricing. Again, many consumers are going to think they are buying equipment, only to find out later they don't own it.
The retailers that participate in the lease plan will have to make the customer sign a lease agreement at the time of the transaction. I'm not sure if they are all doing that yet but the only way that D* pays the retailers a commission is through a lease.
Correct. But what differences are there between what they are told vs. what they sign. I don't mean there will be any willful fraud, but BB and CC don't always high the best and brightest. Something could easily get misunderstood in the explanation. End result: Pissed off customer.hiker said:
Now you all are starting to see how massive a problem this will end up being if things aren't looked into and changed. Also that is correct in that even if you buy it from BB, CC or anywhere else you don't own the box as you are leasing it from DirecTV. DirecTV owns the box not you the customer.
Now if you buy a box from ebay that might be another story as that might be an older box or if its a new box ebay user (enter name here) would most likely have to charge you full price (even more than BB, CC and Directv.com) or lose money on the item. If said ebay user buys box and cancels service and pays the fees to DirecTV and doesn't send box back and sells it that said ebay user can be charged in the court of law for selling a stolen item. If that item is an HD Tivo that could very well be a grand theft charge.
This is all very tricky because you cannot sell something you do not own can you.
Now if you buy a box from ebay that might be another story as that might be an older box or if its a new box ebay user (enter name here) would most likely have to charge you full price (even more than BB, CC and Directv.com) or lose money on the item. If said ebay user buys box and cancels service and pays the fees to DirecTV and doesn't send box back and sells it that said ebay user can be charged in the court of law for selling a stolen item. If that item is an HD Tivo that could very well be a grand theft charge.
This is all very tricky because you cannot sell something you do not own can you.
I don't like the idea of paying upfront with a commitment and not owning the STB/DVR either but how is that different than leasing a vehicle with $3000 upfront and then paying say $300 per month for 3 years and then turning in the vehicle? If I turn the vehicle in early I'm still commited to the whole 3 years of payments or at the least a large cost for terminating early. Not trying to be argumentive here but just don't understand why the AG('s) would get involved here. If they get enough complaints they will "look into" most anything (doesn't mean there will be any action taken) but it's interesting that they haven't done anything to E* which does the same thing. People HAVE to read commitments they sign or take the consequences! I would think that D* and E* etc. have their legal people look over the lease and commitment papers before they start using them. I hope someone involved in Florida will keep us updated on what goes on there with this. I too hope D* does change their procedures.
ArtWIS said:
What Dish Network does is a little bit different. When you go with a lease with them you will never own the box and as long as you return the hardware they won't charge you anything as they don't require a programming agreement with their lease program. Now with DirecTV they will charge these per box fees even if you return the hardware within those first two years and this is what would be questioned.
This system is very different than Dish Network's system. Also in the eyes of consumer protection laws a car lease is treated differently than the lease of boxes for cable tv services which will include satellite companies.
Again charging upfront isn't a problem and charging customers for not returning the boxes aren't a problem either. What is the problem is charging customers within the first two years even if they return the box.
The consumer protection laws consider said company to not be at risk once the customer returns the hardware back to said company. This means that consumer protection laws doesn't think the customer should be liable for the cost of those boxes if the customer returns them under a lease plan. It doesn't make a difference if DirecTV lost money on this it only matters that the law says the customer can't be liable for any charges relating to those boxes if the customer returned them.
If DirecTV didn't call this a lease plan they could get away with this but because they are calling this a lease plan they cannot pass the cost of the boxes onto the customer if DirecTV has the boxes in their custody. DirecTV by charging these fees are saying they are still at risk from said customer even after said customer returned the hardware. The law states that if DirecTV has any risks within those first two years they must charge these risk fees upfront or assume all the risks of obtaining said customer. Under a lease model they cannot do both. Now a programming cancellation fee is another different story because they can charge this but this fee isn't the same as a lease hardware termination charge is it.
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E* now has a $299 upfront cost, $6/mo lease fee, minimum $49/mo. HD package and 18 month term agreement when existing subs upgrade to the ViP622 HD DVR.
I've just been called by a few contacts and this is what I've been told and this is official.
At anytime during the first two years or after you can avoid those per box charges by returning the hardware. The "only" fee you will pay if you cancel service within the first 24 months will be the pro-rated charge of no more than 150 bucks.
Now if you cancel DirecTV service and don't return the boxes within 30 days you will be charged the per box fees and it doesn't make a difference if you cancel in your account during or after the two year agreement. I will update my sticky to reflect this.
At anytime during the first two years or after you can avoid those per box charges by returning the hardware. The "only" fee you will pay if you cancel service within the first 24 months will be the pro-rated charge of no more than 150 bucks.
Now if you cancel DirecTV service and don't return the boxes within 30 days you will be charged the per box fees and it doesn't make a difference if you cancel in your account during or after the two year agreement. I will update my sticky to reflect this.
hiker said:
That is good to know and everything I said above is what customer have been told by DirecTV and its sad that my contacts couldn't call me to confirm or deny what the customers are being told until now.
Any official word on how we can "Buy" boxes from either D* or a retailer?
Robert,
Are you going to be selling boxes, for full cost of course? Or are you drinking the Koolaid and think this is a good deal for the csutomer?
Robert,
Are you going to be selling boxes, for full cost of course? Or are you drinking the Koolaid and think this is a good deal for the csutomer?
herdfan said:
As far as I know the official word is that only DirecTV can sell the hardware so you can own it. But I have been told also that if a retailer wanted to sell hardware that the customer would own they would have to specify that the customer would own it and the retailer wouldn't get paid any subsidy for the box. I'm hoping Robert would chime in on this because not many people within DirecTV are on the same page.
herdfan said:
And THAT is what is going to get them in trouble. D* just lost a $5 million settlement with the State of Florida over what was essentially deceptive advertising. They told people that is was a buy one, get one receiver free deal and started charging for both. It's a no no.
Look what is going to happen when people go to CC and BB and have no CLUE it's a lease!!!!
Purchase at CC on March 3rd.
I didn't sign anything but a Credit Card reciept. It mentioned nothing about a lease or anything else.
I haven't had any of the R-15's before and they had an open box. If nothing else, I can at least participate in the class action suit...lol.
Grizzly
hiker said:
I didn't sign anything but a Credit Card reciept. It mentioned nothing about a lease or anything else.
I haven't had any of the R-15's before and they had an open box. If nothing else, I can at least participate in the class action suit...lol.
Grizzly
RONTGLMAO.... The funny part, is how many times will it take to get them to pay attention to what their Customers are trying to say???
Everything you've said so far has been correct Longhorn XP... I can tell you one thing for sure, we are a D* Dealer, and every person that has called since March 1st, has said they were not interested in D*, but thought that we would give them a better deal than D*, and that they were going to stay with the Company that they had... LOL
Everything you've said so far has been correct Longhorn XP... I can tell you one thing for sure, we are a D* Dealer, and every person that has called since March 1st, has said they were not interested in D*, but thought that we would give them a better deal than D*, and that they were going to stay with the Company that they had... LOL
So should we start a pool on how small Direc's customer increase will be, or how large the decrease?
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