Home Media Center Update:

[CRendall]

I called customer retention yesterday about a number of topics. I asked about the new HD DVRs coming out and asked if DirecTV will have a lease/rental option and I was told no. We would still have to purchase the new HD equipment coming out. I was hoping that DirecTV was going to offer a cheaper option to get their HD equipment. I hope the person I talked to is wrong about the rental option...

Chris

 

[LonghornXP]

I called customer retention yesterday about a number of topics. I asked about the new HD DVRs coming out and asked if DirecTV will have a lease/rental option and I was told no. We would still have to purchase the new HD equipment coming out. I was hoping that DirecTV was going to offer a cheaper option to get their HD equipment. I hope the person I talked to is wrong about the rental option...

Chris

I swear when will you people learn to not listen to a CSR. I can promise you that both the HD DVR and HMC will be offered as a rental. Even D* has said that the HMC will be a rental in a press release. Please learn that the first rule is never trust any CSR because they are last to get info if they even get it at all. You have no idea how many times I've had to answer this damn question. Don't take this the wrong way and I'm not upset with you but we must use common sense.

 

[Smthkd]

I swear when will you people learn to not listen to a CSR. I can promise you that both the HD DVR and HMC will be offered as a rental. Even D* has said that the HMC will be a rental in a press release. Please learn that the first rule is never trust any CSR because they are last to get info if they even get it at all. You have no idea how many times I've had to answer this damn question. Don't take this the wrong way and I'm not upset with you but we must use common sense.

I agree Longhorn! CSR at D* "DONT KNOW $HIZZNET! Plus, I do recall from D* 1st Quarter financial conference call that both the HD DVR and HMC will be available for rental! You know the problem is people here aren't searching for the answers that have all ready been posted so they call these Dumb Azzed CSR at D*!

 

[CRendall]

Even D* has said that the HMC will be a rental in a press release.

I read the press releases as they come out on DirecTV's website and I haven't seen one mentioning a rental option.

 

[cr0mag]

I can't say that I know anything about D* 100% anymore, but considering that they are using HD to squeeze more money from everyone know, and considering how much of an interest Murdoch has in VOD and how it will help his business plan, I would have to assume that they would want to put HMC systems in as many houses as possible, and that means either heavily subsidizing the purchases or rental/lease programs.
I'll also bet that they are available for nearly everyone by Spring 2006, providing they have no real troubles with the up and coming launches. (No inside sources, just a hunch)

 

[Skyboss]

I read the press releases as they come out on DirecTV's website and I haven't seen one mentioning a rental option.

All DirecTV equipment in the future will have a lease option. But who wants an eternal fee??? Maybe you do, but I'll drop the $500-600 (less what ever they give me in trade for an HD TiVo, HD Receiver and two SD TiVo's) on the HMC.

 

[LonghornXP]

All DirecTV equipment in the future will have a lease option. But who wants an eternal fee??? Maybe you do, but I'll drop the $500-600 (less what ever they give me in trade for an HD TiVo, HD Receiver and two SD TiVo's) on the HMC.

Actually all current SDTV hardware now and in the future will be given free or low upfront cost without a rental option. It will be the higher end more pricey hardware that would be rented which they feel they must do to compete now and in the future. When that pricey hardware now gets very cheap in future years when its like 100 bucks or so and can be sold even cheaper they would stop renting it. Now I'll never expect the HMC to get under 100 bucks for quite a while and even when and if it did I'm pretty sure something else new will come about that would cost more money and thus would be rented.

Just be aware that when they can give away four basic boxes they can't start renting them because that would lose them their edge on price with digital cable.

 

[kbohip]

The fact is though buying them every couple of years is an eternal fee too. I'd rather just be able to rent them myself, provided the price is not too high.

 

[Mike L]

Where's my HD DVR media server and clients!!

Can anyone tell me when D will be coming out with their Home Media Server and client devices? I keep hearing this summer, next fall, next year... When I ask, when.....

 

[Alan Gordon]

I agree Longhorn! CSR at D* "DONT KNOW $HIZZNET! Plus, I do recall from D* 1st Quarter financial conference call that both the HD DVR and HMC will be available for rental!

Actually, outside of one person on TiVoCommunity stating that a higher up at DirecTV said in an Investor's Conference that DirecTV will have a new HD DVR in October for around $250-$275 (which looks fishy now that DirecTV CSR's are being told that an HD DVR won't be out until Spring 2006), DirecTV has NEVER stated that there will be another HD-DVR besides the HMC. That has come strictly from people who have either assumed that NDS will bring out an NDS HD-DVR, or people like Dan Collins who has learned it from contacts.

If I'm wrong, please correct me by showing where DirecTV has made mention of an HD-DVR besides the HMC.

~Alan

 

[LonghornXP]

Actually, outside of one person on TiVoCommunity stating that a higher up at DirecTV said in an Investor's Conference that DirecTV will have a new HD DVR in October for around $250-$275 (which looks fishy now that DirecTV CSR's are being told that an HD DVR won't be out until Spring 2006), DirecTV has NEVER stated that there will be another HD-DVR besides the HMC. That has come strictly from people who have either assumed that NDS will bring out an NDS HD-DVR, or people like Dan Collins who has learned it from contacts.

If I'm wrong, please correct me by showing where DirecTV has made mention of an HD-DVR besides the HMC.

~Alan

I do believe that a press release has stated that both an HD DVR and the HMC will be future products. I'll look into this. Also the HMC will be rolled out between 4Q 2005 (Decemberish) and 1Q 2006. I'm hearing that the basic HD DVR will be out before the HMC comes out but how much before I don't know. Both the HD DVR and HMC will have both a retail price and a rental price. What isn't known is if retailers such as VE will be allowed to rent hardware. If not that seems to me to hamper sales towards DirecTV partners.

Only time will tell as I always hear myself saying on a daily basis nowadays.

 

[charper1]

The fact is though buying them every couple of years is an eternal fee too. I'd rather just be able to rent them myself, provided the price is not too high.

Actually we get trade ups at costs far lower than typical rental charges for the same period (if any cost depending on your customer status) it has been studied for years and almost always shows that owning hardware during its life is cheaper.

 

[LonghornXP]

Actually we get trade ups at costs far lower than typical rental charges for the same period (if any cost depending on your customer status) it has been studied for years and almost always shows that owning hardware during its life is cheaper.

In the past that is indeed true but with boxes having hard drives, costing well over 500 bucks and getting heavy usage its more likely that your box would go bad thus resulting in additional costs. These boxes are way more likely to break down and get expensive for both the company and customer and that is indeed why in the future cable companies will offer very good deals to customers to get DVR service without needing a box (ala networked based DVRs using a cable companies head-end for both storage and backup). Now most here wouldn't want this along with myself but this will occur without a doubt and is cheaper than offering a digital box. Also when two-way cablecards hit the market you will see the big push for this service.

In the future cable companies can rent you the cablecard (2.00/month) and that would give you HDTV, PPV, VOD and DVR ability via storage space from your cable companies head-end. I can see the writing on the wall and I hope others can as well. Right now BHN in Tampa Bay is getting killed with bad boxes, buggy software, bad GUI along with many other smaller things and for now Motorola is doing much better on DVR boxes than SA but this will never be a good long term solution because when a drive does go bad customers get very pissed at you as a company. Now I'm hanging on one side or the other but I still believe that extra DVR boxes will be around for quite a while but will be much more expensive.

 

[moonman]

I do believe that a press release has stated that both an HD DVR and the HMC will be future products. I'll look into this. Also the HMC will be rolled out between 4Q 2005 (Decemberish) and 1Q 2006. I'm hearing that the basic HD DVR will be out before the HMC comes out but how much before I don't know. Both the HD DVR and HMC will have both a retail price and a rental price. What isn't known is if retailers such as VE will be allowed to rent hardware. If not that seems to me to hamper sales towards DirecTV partners.

Only time will tell as I always hear myself saying on a daily basis nowadays.

---------------
The only referance to a new DVR that I could find is this interactive one:
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/aboutus/headline.dsp?id=01-06-2005E

Note that it does't make any referance to being H/D capable however.

 

[flamedog]

In the future cable companies can rent you the cablecard (2.00/month) and that would give you HDTV, PPV, VOD and DVR ability via storage space from your cable companies head-end. I can see the writing on the wall and I hope others can as well.

The writing on the wall will continue to be defined by the speed of the network. Cable head-ends will only be able to feed what their networks are capable of. Same for IP-TV or other similar video over copper solutions. I still love the prospects for satellite with an albeit slightly pricier piece of hardware.

Longhorn...let me add my thanks for all of your info...I've read it all and it is very clear...thanks for the effort!

 

[LonghornXP]

The writing on the wall will continue to be defined by the speed of the network. Cable head-ends will only be able to feed what their networks are capable of. Same for IP-TV or other similar video over copper solutions. I still love the prospects for satellite with an albeit slightly pricier piece of hardware.

Longhorn...let me add my thanks for all of your info...I've read it all and it is very clear...thanks for the effort!

I try and be clear but I do fail pretty badly sometimes. Also cable companies will have plenty of bandwidth for networked VOD DVR services once they upgrade to switched video technology. Cable companies have many advantages going towards this system and I'll list just a few of them.

First advantage is cost in that this would cost so much less than upgrading the cable systems. They will have nearly unlimited bandwidth using switched video. That means that can still offer that analog lineup for analog only customers while offering digital cable customers with a digital box and true 100% digital lineup. So digital boxes would get channels 99 and below in digital instead of analog.

They can also improve picture quality on all digital cable channels including HDTV channels. This would also give them more bandwidth and better picture quality for both HD and SD VOD content. This technology can also allow them to offer DVR service without a box as listed above in a mass scale.

Also with switched video they can finally get the bandwidth to offer every customer with say Road Runner speeds of 100Mbps down and 50Mbps UP. Now that doesn't mean you will be offered those speeds but they can with great ease match Verizon FIOS speeds without changing anything but the capping speed. So they can upgrade every Road Runner customer in just one day just using a computer.

Now when a cable company goes all digital like Comcast will do soon all analog only cable customers who get their expanded basic package (local channels and a few public access channels totaling no more than 15 channels will still be kept analog) will get a very low cost box by Motorola box that has a remote and is the size of a cable modem by Motorola. This box will give every analog only customer a 100% digital lineup with a program guide, HDTV channels and access to any VOD content they subscribe to. It seems that Comcast will give a customer upto three of these boxes for free and anything more will cost about 1.50/month per box.

Say if a customer has one actuall digital box with premium channels and premiums on Demand with HDTV channels. Well today that analog only TV set won't get any VOD nor premium channels. Well in the future that analog TV will get a full program guide plus all digital lineup with all the digital channels you subscribe to which will include VOD and HDTV channels.

I know I'm going over this again but just want to make sure you understand what is coming in the future. Also by Comcast and others using this box for analog only customers they can free up massive amounts of bandwidth. Say if your cable company offers 85 analog channels. Say if 15 of those channels will stay analog so that leaves 70 analog channels that you won't be able to get without that Motorola box. Now a cable company today can fit two HDTV channels in the same amount of space as they do one analog channel. So even if they never switched to switched video technology and used their existing system they by doing this can free up room for at least 140 HDTV channels without taking one channel off their lineup. Now with switched video technology and going all digital like above would give them more bandwidth for other services such as high speed internet. By doing this they could be able to offer gigabit high speed internet speeds.

I know again that I'm going on and on but I just figured you might want to know what the future holds for both fiber and cable companies such as Comcast and Verizon.

 

[pstineme]

Is there a good place to read up on Comcast going to all digital?

 

[LonghornXP]

Is there a good place to read up on Comcast going to all digital?

Not really but your best bet is a local thread in the local HDTV forums on AVSForum where several users have been given this hardware. Just so a search for Comcast simulcast on AVS. Also google searches will turn things up. Sorry to say that this information is pretty much spread out everywhere.

 

[cfarm]

Longhorn, your research is generally quite good, but there are a couple of facts amiss here.

First advantage is cost in that this would cost so much less than upgrading the cable systems. They will have nearly unlimited bandwidth using switched video. That means that can still offer that analog lineup for analog only customers while offering digital cable customers with a digital box and true 100% digital lineup. So digital boxes would get channels 99 and below in digital instead of analog.

Cable will most definitely have limits on their bandwidth. With simulcasting, they'll be able to provide the legacy analog beside all digital and have bandwidth for between 30-45 HD channels before a system upgrade is necessary. This was stated in a response to an analyst question during the CC last week.

Also with switched video they can finally get the bandwidth to offer every customer with say Road Runner speeds of 100Mbps down and 50Mbps UP. Now that doesn't mean you will be offered those speeds but they can with great ease match Verizon FIOS speeds without changing anything but the capping speed. So they can upgrade every Road Runner customer in just one day just using a computer.

No such thing in the cable world unless you're the only one on the line from the head end to your house Are you confusing this with VDSL2, which is a telco product and has a 1000 ft. limitation? Any cable solution is a shared line. Even if it were a gigabit uplink, you're talking one line from the head end to each 10 homes and even that is simplistic and doesn't account for overhead. And the more users you through at that during heavy load periods, the more your speed goes down.

The cap for HSI on the current Comcast system is generally thought to be in the low teens with all the other services they are rolling out being considered. That would apply to newer build areas(including my own, thankfully) where loads are not saturating the network.

 

[LonghornXP]

Longhorn, your research is generally quite good, but there are a couple of facts amiss here.



Cable will most definitely have limits on their bandwidth. With simulcasting, they'll be able to provide the legacy analog beside all digital and have bandwidth for between 30-45 HD channels before a system upgrade is necessary. This was stated in a response to an analyst question during the CC last week.

Switched video has limits to only how many channels their encoders can handle so I have no idea what you read because they must have been talking about something else.



No such thing in the cable world unless you're the only one on the line from the head end to your house Are you confusing this with VDSL2, which is a telco product and has a 1000 ft. limitation? Any cable solution is a shared line. Even if it were a gigabit uplink, you're talking one line from the head end to each 10 homes and even that is simplistic and doesn't account for overhead. And the more users you through at that during heavy load periods, the more your speed goes down.

The cap for HSI on the current Comcast system is generally thought to be in the low teens with all the other services they are rolling out being considered. That would apply to newer build areas(including my own, thankfully) where loads are not saturating the network.

Have you heard what Docsis 3.0 and switched video/all digital switchover can do because those two things will greatly increase available bandwidth to these levels. Now again they could offer every customer 100Mbps down speeds if everything went perfect but in the real world we won't have anything more than 50Mbps down per customer. Now with that said we most likely will see cable companies offering teirs to compete with the telcos. Say if Verizon offers 15Mbps down and 2Mbps UP for 45 bucks a month. Most likely we will see cable companies offering 20Mbps down and 2Mbps UP for the same price. Again just because they can do it doesn't mean they will or that it will work as well as they hope. The whole point of what I've said is that they soon will have ways to massively expand their bandwidth without a big costly upgrade process that also takes tons of time to boot.