Here is a real approach to attacking steroid use in baseball

[salsadancer7]

OK, you just ignore what someone is saying, just to shout your opinion. I'm citing examples, not every case, which neither YOU nor I can do. Even so, Naulty might probably would have never made it to the majors without that extra velocity. And Pudge? At one point, he was one of the best hitting catchers in baseball! Do you know when he started and stopped using? Nowhere in my post did I say that anyone got instantly better. YOU'RE taking it there. Did you even read the post? I didn't say that steroids made you better. I said that steroids HELP you do the things that will enhance the abilities you have. I also said that mediocre players weren't going to become superstars. Before using the steroids, did everyone have the same ability? No, they didn't. Did everyone follow the same workout regimen? No, they didn't. Was everyone blessed with the same genetics? No, they weren't. So, how would YOU expect the same results for everyone using them? That's just naive! That's also the rub with a "scientific" study. You don't and won't have a controlled sample of baseball players being given steroids for research. By the way, though, there have been plenty of studies done on the effects of using steroids. This is from one of them:

"The gains made by athletes in uncontrolled observations have been much more impressive. Weight gains of thirty or forty pounds, coupled with thirty percent increases in strength, are not unusual. Such case studies lack credibility because of the absence of scientific controls. However, it would be foolish to completely disregard such observations because the "subjects" have been highly trained and motivated athletes. Please see the articles on pharmacology of sport and sports medicine in the countries of the former Soviet Union for more information on anabolic steroids."

ANABOLIC-ANDROGENIC STEROIDS: Mechanism of Action and Effects on Performance

Those are their words, not mine.

Anabolic Steroids and Performance

The effects of anabolic steroids on physical performance are unclear. Well controlled, double blind studies have rendered conflicting results. In studies showing beneficial effects, body weight increased by an average of about four pounds, lean body weight by about six pounds (fat loss accounts for the discrepancy between gains in lean mass and body weight), bench press increased by about 15 pounds, and squats by about 30 pounds (these values represent the average gains for all studies showing a beneficial effect). Almost all studies have failed to demonstrate a beneficial effect on maximal oxygen consumption or endurance capacity. Anabolic steroid studies have typically lasted six to eight weeks and have usually used relatively untrained subjects.

This is the two paragraph just above the one YOU posted from YOUR LINK, was this part read or "forgotten"....? What was it that you said, oh yeah....."those are their words, not mine"

EDIT: And by the way, Pudge has ALWAYS BEEN one of the best hitting catchers in MLB...he has a LIFETIME .301 batting average.

 

[salsadancer7]

Just salsa being salsa....

I wonder if salsa will quit the site like Manny?

We'll know in about three minutes...


Sandra

QUIT the site? Why? Because of YOU or anyone else? LMAO!!


ROFLMAO!!!!! :haha:river:haha:river:haha:river

This is why I neve ignore anyone, because they will ALWAYS out do their previous comment....

...."quit the site"....LMAO!! too much......

 

[cosmo_kramer]

It looks like David Ortiz didn't use PEDs

David Ortiz says players who test positive for steroids should be suspended from baseball for the whole season.

The Boston Red Sox designated hitter says the way to clean up the game is through testing and not by taking players to court. Houston Astros shortstop Miguel Tejada pleaded guilty last Wednesday to misleading Congress about performance-enhancing drug use in baseball.

Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen suggested the same one-year ban on Sunday.

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/news/story?id=3911153"]David Ortiz: Steroid users should get one-year suspension - ESPN[/ame]

 

[salsadancer7]

It looks like David Ortiz didn't use PEDs



David Ortiz: Steroid users should get one-year suspension - ESPN

Why? Because he said something anti-PEDs? IF I am not mistaken, ALL....except Jose Canseco, said something to the extent of denying use and how bad it is for the game....especially the ones that were caught.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

Why? Because he said something anti-PEDs? IF I am not mistaken, ALL....except Jose Canseco, said something to the extent of denying use and how bad it is for the game....especially the ones that were caught.

1. Please notice the use of the winking emoticon.

2. Seriously though, this is the first example I've seen of a current player stating their idea of punishment for players who get caught. It's different than the standard denial that they've used then get caught in a lie later on. He is setting the precedent for what he thinks should happen to the cheaters and it would look real bad if he ever tests positive...

 

[salsadancer7]

1. Please notice the use of the winking emoticon.

2. Seriously though, this is the first example I've seen of a current player stating their idea of punishment for players who get caught. It's different than the standard denial that they've used then get caught in a lie later on. He is setting the precedent for what he thinks should happen to the cheaters and it would look real bad if he ever tests positive...

Point taken, but remember ALL this firestorm is for positive testing BEFORE there was any testing at all. THERE IS testing AND there IS punishment now....we are NOT in 2003 or earlier. EVERYONE is acting like there are no standards when it comes to PEDs.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

Point taken, but remember ALL this firestorm is for positive testing BEFORE there was any testing at all. THERE IS testing AND there IS punishment now....we are NOT in 2003 or earlier. EVERYONE is acting like there are no standards when it comes to PEDs.

That's correct, but what Papi is suggesting is stronger than the current punishment:

Positive steroid test results
First positive test result: 50 game suspension
Second positive test result: 100 game suspension
Third positive test result: lifetime ban

All suspensions are without pay.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_drug_policy"]Major League Baseball drug policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[BillD1984]

I would be CRUSHED if it came out that Papi used PED's. That man has brought me more thrills than any other Red Sox player in the last 35 years.


I don't believe that Ortiz did, BUT unfortunately I'm at the point that NOTHING would surprise me any more!

 

[salsadancer7]

I would be CRUSHED if it came out that Papi used PED's. That man has brought me more thrills than any other Red Sox player in the last 35 years.


I don't believe that Ortiz did, BUT unfortunately I'm at the point that NOTHING would surprise me any more!

Again, I really doubt anyone is doing it or anyone has for almost 2 years because of the backlash and the suspensions. As ALOT of the ball players have said, it was a different time and a different mentality. It is time to move on and try to clean the image of the game.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

I would be CRUSHED if it came out that Papi used PED's. That man has brought me more thrills than any other Red Sox player in the last 35 years.


I don't believe that Ortiz did, BUT unfortunately I'm at the point that NOTHING would surprise me any more!

Maybe he's proof that there are no PEDs in mango salsa!!

 

[salsadancer7]

Maybe he's proof that there are no PEDs in mango salsa!!

...or what we latinos eat by the ton....good ole fashion rice and beans!:up:

 

[brainiac]

This is the two paragraph just above the one YOU posted from YOUR LINK, was this part read or "forgotten"....? What was it that you said, oh yeah....."those are their words, not mine"

EDIT: And by the way, Pudge has ALWAYS BEEN one of the best hitting catchers in MLB...he has a LIFETIME .301 batting average.

Again, you fail to understand. I supported your argument that no SCIENTIFIC study had been done, and the article told why. But it also said that you would be foolish to ignore the obvious, which you seem wont to do. By the way, you were the one who brought Pudge into the argument, not me. People have noticed his changing physique over the years, though.

 

[salsadancer7]

Again, you fail to understand. I supported your argument that no SCIENTIFIC study had been done, and the article told why. But it also said that you would be foolish to ignore the obvious, which you seem wont to do. By the way, you were the one who brought Pudge into the argument, not me. People have noticed his changing physique over the years, though.

We must be in different zip codes. I do not deny that can and probably does help an ALREADY home run hitter.....but there are too many guys that were guilty of taking the PEDs and did NOTHING for them as far as performance or numbers. A guy that was averaging 30-40 dingers BEFORE the PEDs might hit 50 HRs. But again, it would have to be a guy that already hits HRs where you would really see the difference.....if any. A slap hitter in the majors does not suddenly change his swing just because he suddenly has a little more pop than warning track powers.

 

[vurbano]

I think that he did whatever he did after the 1998 season because he knew he was the best ballplayer in baseball, but America had become enamored with two lesser hitters who were taking steroids.

I think you have a very naive view. Steriod use was rampant long before 1998 and bonds was using.

 

[vampz26]

I think you have a very naive view. Steriod use was rampant long before 1998 and bonds was using.

Thats true. The sad part is that we've gotten so enamoured with the juiced up heroes, that real athletes aren't getting any of the credit they deserve...

 

[HD MM]

I think you have a very naive view. Steriod use was rampant long before 1998 and bonds was using.

Yeah. Didn't Conseco say he first started experimenting with Roids during the late '80's?

 

[salsadancer7]

Yeah. Didn't Conseco say he first started experimenting with Roids during the late '80's?

Yeah....Canseco use to hang out with a ALOT of shaddy characters here in Miami. I am surprised his agent or the A's NEVER said anything about him. He was NOTORIOUS for hangin' out at this Gold's Gym that had a good reputation for alot of the scumbag bouncers of many private clubs as well as body guards for the Columbian Cartel that was still very preminant in Miami Beach at the time.