Help With Finding the Right Antenna

[ponyboy_nd]

Hi all, I'm new to the OTA scene but my wife and I want to drop our cable bill and just go with OTA and internet streaming. I'm basically looking for advice on an antenna to get the channels we want. Ideally, we'd get the big 4, ABC, CBS, Fox, and NBC. Fox and CBS are required, because I need my HD Football.

Here is my TV Fool link: TV Fool

Is it possible for me to get NBC? And if so, which antenna would you recommend to me. Not having NBC isn't a deal broker though, so if it isn't possible to get NBC, which antenna would you recommend for the other 3 stations?

I plan to mount this on my roof in back where my DirecTV dish is right now. So the smaller the antenna the better, my wife gets weird about alien looking things on the roof.

I appreciate any advice anyone can give me. Thanks!

 

[jayn_j]

Ah, Plover/Stevens Point. We were just up there a few weeks ago for a Destination Imagination tournament. I seem to recall a lot of big antennas high up with rotors.

NBC is going to be tough. You also have two of your best stations transmitting on VHF high (channels 7 and 9). A reasonable VHF/UHF antenna should get those no problem. The NBC from Green bay is going to require something like a Winegard 4228 pointed east and as much height as you can put up with. I wouldn't even try for the madison or EauClaire ones.

Bottom line, a small VHF HI/ UHF antenna for everything else, but serious fringe UHF for NBC in Green bay.

 

[sergei]

Is it possible for me to get NBC? And if so, which antenna would you recommend to me. Not having NBC isn't a deal broker though, so if it isn't possible to get NBC, which antenna would you recommend for the other 3 stations?/QUOTE]

If an OTA antenna fails to get NBC stations then you might look at going with an FTA dish for them, may not be local, but I get two NBC stations WVGN out of New York and KCWY13 out of Wyoming. them on the same satellite.

Otherwise it most likely is going to take a large antenna or stacked set and a tower due to the distance. But the only sure way to know for sure is to install a system and see what you can receive.

 

[ponyboy_nd]

Any suggestions for a good small VHF HI/ UHF antenna if I go that route? I'll look into the Winegard one also. I'd assume the Winegard one would only pick up the Green Bay stations since it would need to be pointed east and I would still need the VHF HI/UHF antenna for the Wausau stations pointed north?

And FTA is new to me, the first time I've heard that term. What are the pros and cons of that? I still need local programming because I need my Packer games. Is it possible to combine FTA and an antenna for local stations?

 

[sergei]

Any suggestions for a good small VHF HI/ UHF antenna if I go that route. I'll look into the Winegard one also. I'd assume the Winegard one would only pick up Green Bay stations and I would still need the VHF HI/UHF antenna for the Wausau stations?

And FTA is new to me, the first time I've heard that term. What are the pros and cons of that? I still need local programming because I need my Packer games. Is it possible to combine FTA and an antenna for local stations?

If you want those stations then I don't see how a small antenna is going to make it for you and your best bet is to go with a single large antenna that's both UHF/VHF and then use a rotor.
Look on this forum or search the internet with Google for information about FTA. The Skyvision site might also be helpful for you.

Skyvision Satellite Equipment

 

[Mr Tony]

There is a NBC in Wausau but its a low powered translator

W27Au-D is the NBC translator (the main is WJFW in Rhinelander)

Eau Claire NBC is off the air right now (tower collapsed in March). They are going to put up a smaller tower (shorter) next month. They're actually on a subchannel right now (I think ABC)

 

[Tower Guy]

If you want those stations then I don't see how a small antenna is going to make it for you and your best bet is to go with a single large antenna that's both UHF/VHF and then use a rotor.

The top four stations can be picked up with an HD 7698P and an AP-8700 preamp. The variation in angle is 3 degrees (348-351), so you won't need a rotor unless you want to play with other directions.

 

[Bob2011]

I don't understand the recommendations for large antennas as all the stations are within 35 miles. The only challenge may be the low powered NBC station but even a simple 4 bay bowtie may be enough to get that one. You probably could go with a Channel Master CM-3016 or similar all in one antenna for $50 or less. As long as you get the antenna above the roof I don't see a problem with getting all the locals.

 

[No Static At All]

The 3016 is not appropriate for the OP. There are no LO VHF receivable channels in the area & it is too weak for reliable reception of NBC.

The recommended 7698 antenna / 8700 pre amp will get the most channels & pay for itself within 2-3 months. It may even get ION without a rotator.

If size is crucial, the strongest antenna for it's size is the Winegard 7694. It well outperforms the 3016 from my experience. I would still use the 8700 preamp to increase the chances of making NBC reliable.

 

[ponyboy_nd]

Thanks for the great suggestions guys. The Winegard 7694 looks like a perfect size, not too big at all. I think I'd like to go that route. I'm also going to be splitting to 4 tvs so I'm assuming I'd need a pre amp regardless because of the splitting. So just to make sure, these are the two things I would need in order to get the channels I want?

Winegard HD 7694P
Winegard AP-8700 Preamplifier

Also, where would the preamp be connected in the setup? Would I run a coax from the antenna on the roof down to the basement where I would be splitting to the TVs and connect the coax from the antenna to the preamp down there? And then from the preamp to the splitter? Just want to make sure I understand how this is going to work before I make the jump.

Thanks again for all the great feedback!

 

[Bob2011]

The 3016 is not appropriate for the OP. There are no LO VHF receivable channels in the area & it is too weak for reliable reception of NBC.

The recommended 7698 antenna / 8700 pre amp will get the most channels & pay for itself within 2-3 months. It may even get ION without a rotator.

If size is crucial, the strongest antenna for it's size is the Winegard 7694. It well outperforms the 3016 from my experience. I would still use the 8700 preamp to increase the chances of making NBC reliable.

Just because an antenna says it can do VHF-LO doesn't mean its inappropriate for the other bands. Its really a joke anyway for VHF-LO with 1.2 dB of gain On VHF-HI it does 7.9 dB gain and 7.7 dB across UHF which is pretty respectable for both. This antenna style has been in use for decades under other brands like Radio Shack and RCA.
The OP can go with any brand or style he wants but I really believe anything bigger than this is unnecessary for 35 miles LOS.

Your recommendation was for a 14 foot antenna which is overkill for the OP unless he is going for the stations out of Green Bay. It probably wouldn't get approval from the wife either

Your second recommendation for the 7694P is about the same size as the CM3016 but it has 1-3 dB higher gain. It probably is the better option but its up to the OP if he wants to spend about another $25 for it after shipping.

 

[Bob2011]

The Winegard 7694P is $57.71 shipped on Amazon or $62 shipped on ebay.

 

[No Static At All]

Under real world conditions, the 7694 runs circles around the 3016 with regards to reception & build quality. You certainly get what you pay for.

Reception wise, the 3016 is almost as good as the tiny ANT-751.

 

[sergei]

Thanks for the great suggestions guys. The Winegard 7694 looks like a perfect size, not too big at all. I think I'd like to go that route. I'm also going to be splitting to 4 tvs so I'm assuming I'd need a pre amp regardless because of the splitting. So just to make sure, these are the two things I would need in order to get the channels I want?

Winegard HD 7694P
Winegard AP-8700 Preamplifier

Also, where would the preamp be connected in the setup? Would I run a coax from the antenna on the roof down to the basement where I would be splitting to the TVs and connect the coax from the antenna to the preamp down there? And then from the preamp to the splitter? Just want to make sure I understand how this is going to work before I make the jump.

Thanks again for all the great feedback!

The problem I see is the antenna your talking about per Winegard specifications is right at the limit quoted by them.
The Winegard 7694P antenna has been specifically tuned for channels 7-69.This antenna has a range for 30 miles for VHF and 25 miles for UHF signals. http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...tm_source=google_base_03_TV_Antennas&more=yes

Will it work in all weather conditions to me it's questionable as it appears that your right on the edge and some stations may drop out on you, remember this is digital and not like the old analog signals, it's usually all or nothing. If the signal is weak then the preamp may help or it may just help increase the signal/ noise factor, but that may depend on the amp you buy. One with the lowest noise would be best.
[FONT=&quot]It's a lot easier at this point to go larger and to some it might be an over kill but this way you only have to spend the money one time, if you go too small then you maybe disappointed with what you get.[/FONT]

First, the basics Of capturing the signal, the antenna, and its connection -
1. The most important piece of the Antenna System is the antenna.
The stronger the signal you have at the antenna the better you can achieve reliable high quality reception. Many factors contribute to the signal strengths of various stations, including:
(a) antenna gain, (b) system Noise Figure, (c) distance, (d) station transmitting power, (e) obstacles between the station transmitter and the receiving location, (f) height of the transmitter antenna, (g) height of the receiving antenna, (h) reflections from obstacles and moving vehicles that can partially cancel the signal
Best practice dictates that the amplifier be connected as close to the antenna element as possible to avoid additional introduction of RF noise, or attenuation of the signal, both of which have the effect of lowering the S/N Ratio

 

[No Static At All]

Very good points, but WAF rules here. Therefore the 7694 being the highest gain VHF-HI/UHF antenna for it's size, is likley the best compromise for the OP. The mileage ratings on antennas are misleading in the real world for the most part.

 

[sergei]

The mileage ratings on antennas are misleading in the real world for the most part.

The mileage rating that most manufacture state is normally always higher than what the antenna can delivery in the real world. They come up with these numbers under ideal test conditions which most installations are not going to be able to duplicate.

 

[No Static At All]

While bloated mileage numbers are the norm for many manufacturers, I find Winegard's to be conservative in most cases.

Comparing gain figures is a much better way to select the appropriate antenna.

 

[sergei]

While bloated mileage numbers are the norm for many manufacturers, I find Winegard's to be conservative in most cases.

Comparing gain figures is a much better way to select the appropriate antenna.

For those wondering how they test their antennas this might prove interesting reading.

Near Field Range Antenna Test Center

At last, no more waiting to test your new
antennas. Winegard Company has a state of-the-art vertical planar near-field antenna measurement system on site.
The vertical planar near-field range is designed for testing medium to high gain antennas (gain higher than 15 dBi). It provides comprehensive and valuable information on the performance of the antenna under test (co- and cross-polarization patterns, gain, sidelobe, beam width, beam pointing, axial ratio, etc.).
Features:

• Frequency of operation is up to 40 GHz.
• Scan area of 5 ft. by 5 ft.
• Radiation patterns of up to +/- 70° in azimuth and elevation can be measured.
• Range is housed in a room which has RF absorber on the side walls to minimize multipath.
• Range consists of NSI robotic scanner, Agilent E8363B network analyzer, NSI antenna measurement software, other RF hardware, and a computer for data acquisition and processing.

Overview of Near-Field Measurement
In a planar near-field measurement system, the antenna under test (AUT) remains stationary during the test and the probe antenna is moved in both X and Y directions such that a grid of near-field samples is formed.
The robotic scanner carries the probe antenna, which is connected to the Agilent E8363B network analyzer (PNA) from one port. The other PNA port is connected to the AUT. The PNA measures the near-field grid samples, which are amplitude and phase measurements of the AUT response.
The size of the near-field grid or the scan size is determined from the AUT size, the probe antenna size, the probe-to-AUT spacing, and the maximum far-field angle. Once the measured near-field grid of the AUT is formed, a Fourier transform of the near-field grid results in the far-field pattern.
After measuring the AUT, the standard gain horn (SGH) antenna is measured. The measured SGH data is then used to determine the AUT gain by comparing the far-field level of the AUT to that of the SGH. The difference in signal level between the AUT and the SGH is the difference in gain between the AUT and the SGH.