HDCP to Begin on HBO Comedy

[AJF]

Here's a link to contact HBO and let them know what you think about this bs:

HBO: About HBO (Under "Topic" I used the "Copyright Violations" option because I'll bet they read those first lol.)

I believe they are testing the HDCP waters with this action and the sooner and the louder we complain, the sooner they'll reconsider and hopefully kill the whole idea .

And I'm also emailing Dish because they should have the cajones to tell HBO screw off just they way they have the cajones to shut down channels when the content providers want to raise their fees and effect Dish's bottom line.

 

[ZachS@DISH]

It seems that there is some confusion on what HDCP actually is.
HDCP
High Bandwidth Digital Copy Protection is a form of digital copy protection which was developed to protect content as it travels across digital connections. DISH Network and other cable and satellite providers have been required to activate HDCP on every receiver. When a program has HDCP, you will be able to make one copy (analog or digital) of a program that airs. For example, if you're using a DISH Network DVR, you can record a show to the DVR but would not be able to record that same show to a DVD recorder.

This will not cause problems with TV2 since it is using a non digital connection. We just tested it and TV2 had no issues viewing any of the HBO channels.

 

[dare2be]

So, I'm assuming that there are other copy protection schemes in play besides HDCP...I have a Netflix account connected to my Roku, which in turn is connected to my DVD recorder via composite R/W/Y cables. This would be a non-digital connection, yet my recorder will not allow the content to be recorded from Netflix. Hulu content can be recorded via the same connection.

 

[whatchel1]

It seems that there is some confusion on what HDCP actually is.
HDCP
High Bandwidth Digital Copy Protection is a form of digital copy protection which was developed to protect content as it travels across digital connections. DISH Network and other cable and satellite providers have been required to activate HDCP on every receiver. When a program has HDCP, you will be able to make one copy (analog or digital) of a program that airs. For example, if you're using a DISH Network DVR, you can record a show to the DVR but would not be able to record that same show to a DVD recorder.

This will not cause problems with TV2 since it is using a non digital connection. We just tested it and TV2 had no issues viewing any of the HBO channels.

Did you test the component output? Does it stop working? What some have been saying is the only output that is working for them is the HDMI and that both the component and RF out on TV 2 is now blacked out. BTW this is an MPAA pushed out requirement. It's kind of a load that they are pushing out so that you can't archive a copy for one's self as they want to force people to have to buy another copy.

 

[ZachS@DISH]

Did you test the component output? Does it stop working? What some have been saying is the only output that is working for them is the HDMI and that both the component and RF out on TV 2 is now blacked out.

Will test that now but that shouldn't be the case since it is not a digital connection. What error messages are people seeing with TV2 problems?

*Edit* Tested with component output and was able to view the HBO and Cinemax channels. This was on a VIP 922 and VIP 722k.

 

[whatchel1]

Will test that now but that shouldn't be the case since it is not a digital connection. What error messages are people seeing with TV2 problems?

*Edit* Tested with component output and was able to view the HBO and Cinemax channels. This was on a VIP 922 and VIP 722k.

I'm on EA and it isn't doing anything to kill the output yet. So only those on WA are saying it's blocked. I did try the 722k ch 3 RF out and it was outputting.

 

[ZachS@DISH]

I'm on EA and it isn't doing anything to kill the output yet. So only those on WA are saying it's blocked. I did try the 722k ch 3 RF out and it was outputting.

Yeah we have Western Arc here and I have Eastern Arc at my house and I have not been able to recreate these issues.

 

[TG2]

It seems that there is some confusion on what HDCP actually is.

Its not confusion on what HDCP is ... but exactly how dish will implement and block content based on HDCP "requirements" to *any* analog outputs that are *not* digitally protected by HDCP.

This is not stuff from the HDCP Specifications documents ... but from the LICENSING documents which specify no Analog Output.

http://www.digital-cp.com/licensing

http://www.digital-cp.com/files/static_page_files/26D315BF-1A4B-B294-D04BB484EE81591E/HDCP License Agreement0831_2011_clean _2_.pdf

Exhibit C - Compliance Rules (starts at PDF page 37 of 51)
3.3 / 3.3.1 - Digital Outputs (starts on pdf page 38 of 51) .. shall not permit the output of Audiovisual Content to digital outputs except ... only digital outputs (audio) that further comply to approved no-copy options (or are approved Audiovisual repeaters, which again are spec'd to comply with HDCP, at Exhibit C section 5 "Repeaters")

3.4 Analog Outputs (starts on page 39 of 51 and continues to pg 40 of 51)

3.4 Analog Outputs. No output of Decrypted HDCP Content is permitted except as follows:

​

3.4.1 Audiovisiual Content. Except as otherwise expressly provided in Section 3.3.1 of these Compliance Rules, A Presentation Device shall not permit the output of Audiovisual Content Decrypted HDCP Content in any analog representation.
​

(that section there <3.4.1> should be enough to quash the "we're not talking coax", because the coax on dish receivers *IS* analog)


5 Compliance Rules for Repeaters.
5.4 (pdf page 41 of 51)

5.4 No Analog Outputs. A Repeater shall not permit the output of Decrypted HDCP Content in any analog representation.
​

Now ... given the explicit statements of HDCP License compliance.. while a Coax output is analog, and is very low quality .. at NO TIME did I read ANY mention in the license documentation where it exempts Coax ... its analog, its getting *ITS* signal from Dish as a transcoded HDCP protected digital signal to an analog unprotected signal. If the digital signal comes from Dish with HDCP ... then by definition allowing HDCP *decrypted* content on the coax is in violation of the license.

Now maybe there is an addendum where it mentions such things.. but I didn't see it (that website has an addendum, the addedum mentions Exhibit C sections 3.5 and 5.3 but *not* 3.3.1 nor 3.4 or 5.4)

The simple fact is that Dish is the one required to implement such restrictions on the output .... and if the content is encrypted with HDCP from Dish Uplink .. and not at the disgression of the reciever.. then dish will fall into non-compliance and risk a law suit ...

IF however, dish is turning on HDCP as a requirement for HDMI Port as the source *ON* the box.. then they should be allowed to leave the Component & Coaxial cables alone, in their natives.. because you're not moving HDCP from uplink to satellite, and down/into dish receiver.

So again.. what's needed is for **DISH** to clarify what its position is in the box and source position of the HDCP requirements. Is dish putting HDCP on from the uplink? OR Is dish merely enforcing HDCP from the Box as source of the HDCP to protect a digital output (HDMI).

And if its the latter ... dish should *not* be disabling the Coax, and certainly should *not* be disabling the Component outputs as they would not be from an HDCP protected device, they are from Dish's decrypted DISH signal before protection of HDCP is added to the HDMI output and HDMI output alone.

There have been folks complaining that their Component Outputs have been effected to their Sling Boxes (not sling adapters, the full slingbox) and if that is a result of Dish's HDCP then they need to re-evaluate what they are doing.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I don't know if they were "screwing around" with things the other day or not, but I had a wave or retailers call me about this issue saying that the channels were disabled on the component outputs. But I have not h eard anything more (or more complaints) since then.

I am wondering if they were tweeking stuff at the time which caused the issue people were upset about?

 

[dare2be]

3.4 Analog Outputs (starts on page 39 of 51 and continues to pg 40 of 51)

3.4 Analog Outputs. No output of Decrypted HDCP Content is permitted except as follows:

​

3.4.1 Audiovisiual Content. Except as otherwise expressly provided in Section 3.3.1 of these Compliance Rules, A Presentation Device shall not permit the output of Audiovisual Content Decrypted HDCP Content in any analog representation.
​

(that section there <3.4.1> should be enough to quash the "we're not talking coax", because the coax on dish receivers *IS* analog)

That depends on the interpretation of "Decrypted HDCP Content". Notice I bolded the "HD" part, as component IS an analog representation of high-definition copy-protected content. S-video, composite and down-rezzed coax is not, simple because it is not high-definition.

 

[TG2]

That depends on the interpretation of "Decrypted HDCP Content". Notice I bolded the "HD" part, as component IS an analog representation of high-definition copy-protected content. S-video, composite and down-rezzed coax is not, simple because it is not high-definition.

Yes.. and how EXACTLY did you get that analog signal? The SVid, Composite, Coax.. are all taken from a DECRYPTED HDCP protected source!

NO Where does it say "no analog unless you de-rez it under HD" ... and in fact they state otherwise to be inclusive of "Audiovisual Content" doesn't say under 720, doesn't say under 525 lines (svid) just "audiovisual" it could be a slide show. If the ANALOG output is taken from an HDCP Protected Source.. then its in violation.

 

[whatchel1]

Yes.. and how EXACTLY did you get that analog signal? The SVid, Composite, Coax.. are all taken from a DECRYPTED HDCP protected source!

NO Where does it say "no analog unless you de-rez it under HD" ... and in fact they state otherwise to be inclusive of "Audiovisual Content" doesn't say under 720, doesn't say under 525 lines (svid) just "audiovisual" it could be a slide show. If the ANALOG output is taken from an HDCP Protected Source.. then its in violation.

It would depend on where the trigger is embedded. If it is embedded only in the HDMI output then it wouldn't affect the component, composite, or RF outs. What goes into a sat box is RF digital in if it is embedded there then only the HDMI would work and all others would either be blocked or down-rezzed.

 

[3HaloODST]

Not to mention the "HD" in HDCP doesn't stand for "High-definition." HDCP stands for "High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection."

Let's hope that the jerks at the MPAA aren't going to close the "analog hole." Especially considering the fact that HDCP was cracked this time last year. All this will do is screw paying customers. Pirates will always find a way around.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I like the SES Preisdent, he looks excited.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Whoops wrong thread.

 

[whatchel1]

Not to mention the "HD" in HDCP doesn't stand for "High-definition." HDCP stands for "High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection."

Let's hope that the jerks at the MPAA are going to close the "analog hole." Especially considering the fact that HDCP was cracked this time last year. All this will do is screw paying customers. Pirates will always find a way around.

There are already boxes that do that. Taking the HDMI and splitting it out to component outputs.

 

[3HaloODST]

Whoops. Meant to say "aren't."

But those boxes aren't going to help those that get TV2 via coax. So yeah, pirates 1, paying customers 0.

Here's hoping that the fact that DISH relies so heavily on the TV2 coax that it influences their decisions on the matter.

 

[Tampa8]

HBO has added all (or most tried most of them) of their channels now. I can not watch from the EA HBO on my slingbox. STILL can from the WA.

 

[dare2be]

Not to mention the "HD" in HDCP doesn't stand for "High-definition." HDCP stands for "High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection."

Let's hope that the jerks at the MPAA aren't going to close the "analog hole." Especially considering the fact that HDCP was cracked this time last year. All this will do is screw paying customers. Pirates will always find a way around.

Again, my point is that the license agreement as written is left open to interpretation, as there is no glossary definition as to what constitutes "high-bandwidth", nor whether the content that originally was high-bandwidth and is then converted to low-bandwidth would still fall under the HDCP protections.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

HBO has added all (or most tried most of them) of their channels now. I can not watch from the EA HBO on my slingbox. STILL can from the WA.

I cant check as I dont subscribe to HBO or Cinemax.