HD picture quality not as good as before?

[kstuart]

Do you genuinely know something from the inside of Dish Network engineering, or are you just shooting from the hip? Because none of the known facts (changed transponders, same # of HD channels) proves what you are stating with such finality.

The 17 new HD channels were added into empty space on transponders. They were not added by increasing the number of channels per transponder.

That can be checked at:

The Uplink Center - SatelliteGuys.US

Now if you are saying that Dish Network can be making PQ worse by doing something other than changing the number of channels per transponder, then you can only be saying that they are misadjusting the channels and destroying the PQ for no reason.

So, two possibilities - either:

- Since Voom was removed, people think the PQ is worse, simply because the non-Voom channels have worse quality content, OR

- Since Voom was removed, Dish suddenly started misadjusting the channels and destroying the PQ for no good reason.

I'd be willing to bet that it is the first.

 

[primetimeguy]

The problem we have is all these PQ is better/worse comments are all subjective and without comparing the same program at the "better" and "worse" PQ side by side, the mind can play many tricks on you. There is too much channel to channel and program to program variability. Now if someone has the exact same program DVRed then better comparisons can be made.

That being said, I "thought" I noticed a degradation in PQ a couple weeks back (comparing Dish locals to OTA which a year or so ago I felt I could see no difference, now I can), even prior to the VOOM dropping. But I've felt all HD PQ could be improved for about the last 4 years. To me PQ keeps going down rather than up. I'm now spoiled with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

 

[jkf18]

I have had several friends/family members compare DIRECTV's feed of a national HD channel versus the DISH feed of the same. Both using HDMI cables, and not telling the person what provider they are watching it on. I will switch back and forth to ask their opinion on which is clearer. Everytime I get the same response that the DISH feed lacks clarity, sharpness, and color compared to the DIRECTV feed. Now, don't get me wrong. I have numerous problems with DIRECTV and their hardware and customer service. I have honestly wished DISH would be the better provider, but I just can't put up with picture quality of the HD channels. Its almost like something happened just before the VOOM takedown / addition of the newer HD channels.

 

[EmpireState]

The problem we have is all these PQ is better/worse comments are all subjective and without comparing the same program at the "better" and "worse" PQ side by side, the mind can play many tricks on you. There is too much channel to channel and program to program variability. Now if someone has the exact same program DVRed then better comparisons can be made.

The macro-blocking is up. I don't know about the HD PQ, but the macro-blocking is up. I'm watching a repeat show on HDNET and I know it never had as much macro blocking as it has now compared to the first time I watched it. I don't know how that affects sharpness of the HD, but something is going on. There is more blocking during fast transitions and high action on the screen. My reception maybe, I hope.

 

[primetimeguy]

The macro-blocking is up. I don't know about the HD PQ, but the macro-blocking is up. I'm watching a repeat show on HDNET and I know it never had as much macro blocking as it had now compared to the first time I watched it. I don't know how that affects sharpness of the HD, but something is going on. There is more blocking during fast transitions and high action on the screen.

Again, recalling what you saw last time in terms of PQ is nearly impossible. I'm not saying something hasn't changed but comments like this don't hold any water.

 

[EmpireState]

Again, recalling what you saw last time in terms of PQ is nearly impossible. I'm not saying something hasn't changed but comments like this don't hold any water.

Valid, I'm flimsy on this. I have no screen shots. I was watching Art Mann on HDNET. Are you willing to do your own test and prove me wrong? As skeptical as you are you must have some HDNET shows saved or something. I promise I'm not trying to be a jerk. I see more blocky-ness on that channel than I remember.

 

[primetimeguy]

Valid, I'm flimsy on this. I have no screen shots. I was watching Art Mann on HDNET. Are you willing to do your own test and prove me wrong? As skeptical as you are you must have some HDNET shows saved or something. I promise I'm not trying to be a jerk. I see more blocky-ness on that channel than I remember.

I wish I could prove you wrong, or even right for that matter. But that's the problem, it is very difficult to do. While my comments about comparing OTA to Dish locals on the same program at the same time is a much better comparison than recalling what I saw weeks ago, there are still some holes it in....such as I thought when I did this 12 months ago there was no difference (but that was a different program and maybe I wasn't paying as close attentione then). The last time I did this was a week or so ago during an NBA playoff game. There was a vary obvious difference in the color of the court flipping between Dish and OTA.

I consider myself rather picky (probably obsessive is a better word) but I don't recall the last time I saw an artifact free program on Dish. I do my movie watching on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray and when I see the same movie on Cinemax the amount of macroblocking makes me cringe. Transformers is a great example.

 

[EmpireState]

I wish I could prove you wrong, or even right for that matter. But that's the problem, it is very difficult to do. While my comments about comparing OTA to Dish locals on the same program at the same time is a much better comparison than recalling what I saw weeks ago, there are still some holes it in....such as I thought when I did this 12 months ago there was no difference (but that was a different program and maybe I wasn't paying as close attentione then). The last time I did this was a week or so ago during an NBA playoff game. There was a vary obvious difference in the color of the court flipping between Dish and OTA.

I consider myself rather picky (probably obsessive is a better word) but I don't recall the last time I saw an artifact free program on Dish. I do my movie watching on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray and when I see the same movie on Cinemax the amount of macroblocking makes me cringe. Transformers is a great example.

I'm with you on the Blu, so awesome. Thanks for the reply.

 

[larrylwill]

I have many OTA network shows recorded on my HD Tivo like CSI and when they broadcast the same show on a superstation one can compare and you can see the difference easily. Dish is definitely softer.

 

[kstuart]

I have many OTA network shows recorded on my HD Tivo like CSI and when they broadcast the same show on a superstation one can compare and you can see the difference easily. Dish is definitely softer.

When people are talking about OTA vs Dish, that is a different issue.

When people are talking about Dish vs DirecTV, that is a different issue (earlier post).

When people are talking about Dish HD Locals, that is a different issue (because there are lots of things that go on with locals that don't affect the national channels, such as moving to a spot beam in the case of NY locals).

 

[kstuart]

Valid, I'm flimsy on this. I have no screen shots. I was watching Art Mann on HDNET. Are you willing to do your own test and prove me wrong? As skeptical as you are you must have some HDNET shows saved or something. I promise I'm not trying to be a jerk. I see more blocky-ness on that channel than I remember.

Okay, a couple of weeks ago, I recorded a program on HD-Net that I had already recorded and moved to an external hard drive.

My impression was that the new recording was not as clear as I remembered.

So, I compared it to the older recording from a year ago, and the exact same portions of the show were less clear, and the exact same portions of the show looked good. In other words, it looked just the same as the old recording.

So, primetimeguy's remarks are exactly correct - we cannot rely on our memories of PQ.

PS HD-Net (and HD Theater and ESPN ) will be changing from MPEG2 to MPEG4 on Dish Network in August, and that should be better PQ.

 

[Bix]

PS HD-Net (and HD Theater and ESPN ) will be changing from MPEG2 to MPEG4 on Dish Network in August, and that should be better PQ.

So MPEG4 means better quality and not just less bandwidth? That's good news.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Mpeg4 allows them to reduce bandwidth for more capacity without killing PQ. They can STILL add too many to a TP and kill mpeg4 bandwidth. D* is allowing a little more bandwidth for their channels, which is why I think D*'s PQ is slightly sharper.

 

[TheKrell]

The 17 new HD channels were added into empty space on transponders. They were not added by increasing the number of channels per transponder.

I am not arguing with that fact. I am merely pointing out that it proves nothing about PQ. We cannot rely on the so-called uplink report, since it's only the channel map to transponders. This map may or may not correspond to reality. For example, Dish can and does put up test channels completely absent from the channel map. Contrariwise, channels and transponders can appear in the map that do not in fact exist. See for example the channels on Echo4. If you believe TheList, itself derived from the channel map, then you would believe Echo4 has all 32 transponders lit. I believe the actual number is 1, but somebody with a spectrum analyzer can correct me if I'm out-of-date.

Now if you are saying that Dish Network can be making PQ worse by doing something other than changing the number of channels per transponder, then you can only be saying that they are misadjusting the channels and destroying the PQ for no reason.

Yes, that is close to what I'm saying. Dish can make PQ worse by doing something other than changing the number of channels per transponder. There is even a good reason to do that: they want eventually to cram more channels onto each. After testing new settings on channels not in today's channel map, I would expect them to migrate the settings to live channels, sit back, and wait to see how many customers complain. If nobody complains, then they will declare their tweaked settings a resounding success, and cram more channels onto each transponder.

 

[dholmes_chem]

I have definitely seen a reduction in PQ, but I know it's my 46" RP Hitachi getting long-in-the-tooth (convergence ok, IC's probably need change). This makes me wonder if aging equipment (receivers, cables, LNBs, etc.) can cause signal degradation.

 

[USMCGrunt0307]

Im gonna have to agree with you all...something is up with the PQ here in the past couple weeks. Is there a possibility that since they are going to be switching everything to MPEG4 that they havent already crammed all the channels onto the different transponders and overloaded them with the current MPEG2 compression but when they switch to MPEG4 the PQ will come back up?

 

[Cowchip]

I have to agree with those who are saying the PQ has diminished. Doesn't matter what channel, it's just plain poor. I have been thinking the same thing for a while now and wrote it off as just me, but after seeing this thread and the same observations I have to believe there is something else in play.

 

[richiephx]

When E* first added CinemaxHD in 2007, the MPEG4 picture quality was much better than what it is now, IMO. Today, I see a lot more softness and motion blurriness during fast action sequences like in the movie Transformers. I am giving E* the benefit of the doubt that they will come through, do the right thing, rise above mediocrity and make it better than their competition. If they don't, I will consider switching to another provider or even drop all programming and live with OTA and blueray. I can wait until both providers and programmers get their acts together and even save a bunch of money too.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Funny thing is though, the Dish HD lils look damn close to OTA. Also, Im FINALLY getting to watch Andromeda Strain from A&EHD and the frackin PQ is great. I dunno.

 

[USMCGrunt0307]

I watched some of Transformers on Cinemax HD last night and then I was watching TMNT this morning on Cinemax HD and there is definately a lot of pixelation or macro blocking during fast motion scenes. I understand that 1080i doesnt have as fast a frame rate as 720p or 1080p but to have those kinds of anomalies seems to be more of an over compression to me than it would be display format. The HD channels still look better then SD but ive definately seen better HD before...especially BD movies.