I would be very surprised if D* broadcasted VOOM at 1920x1080, as D* is already down-rezzing (or bit-starving) a number of channels.
HD Lite again...
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Walter L. said:Good finding now "HDLite" is an official term
Yep glad to see the wookie community has taken form to its HDLITE issue
Its gone a long way sence I started that Offical term on wokie.. Tom Bombadil said:
At this moment... D* Downrezzes everything
I sent this email to Dishnetwork:
"I subscribe to the HD Platinum package with HD locals. I have noticed a variance in the HD picture quality between the VOOM channels and the other HD channels, like HDNet, ESPNHD/ESPN2HD, HBOHD, SHOHD etc. In my opinion, HDNet and HBO have the best overall HD picture quality. The quality of the VOOM channels aren't as good.
It is my understanding that the format for TRUE HD is defined as 1920 x 1080i or 1920 x 1080p or 1280 x 720p at a bit rate of 19.4mps.
Since I am seeing a difference in HD quality among the HD channels, I am curious to know what HD format and bit rate DishNetwork uses in its programming transmission for it's high definition channels?"
Dishnetwork's response:
"The quality of all HD programming is determined by the provider. We as DISH Network receive a signal for example from HBO in a format called 1080-line interlaced. You will receive a better picture from HBO than you would say Voom. Voom up converts the signal to an HD format. So to compare the two services you might be able to see a difference. When Voom was a provider they offered these channels as up converts to HD, and when we acquired there services, the signal remained the same."
I am still confused.
"I subscribe to the HD Platinum package with HD locals. I have noticed a variance in the HD picture quality between the VOOM channels and the other HD channels, like HDNet, ESPNHD/ESPN2HD, HBOHD, SHOHD etc. In my opinion, HDNet and HBO have the best overall HD picture quality. The quality of the VOOM channels aren't as good.
It is my understanding that the format for TRUE HD is defined as 1920 x 1080i or 1920 x 1080p or 1280 x 720p at a bit rate of 19.4mps.
Since I am seeing a difference in HD quality among the HD channels, I am curious to know what HD format and bit rate DishNetwork uses in its programming transmission for it's high definition channels?"
Dishnetwork's response:
"The quality of all HD programming is determined by the provider. We as DISH Network receive a signal for example from HBO in a format called 1080-line interlaced. You will receive a better picture from HBO than you would say Voom. Voom up converts the signal to an HD format. So to compare the two services you might be able to see a difference. When Voom was a provider they offered these channels as up converts to HD, and when we acquired there services, the signal remained the same."
I am still confused.
Dish is playing doublespeak, and in a highly unethical manner IMHO.
Dish has asked VOOM to transmit their channels to Dish at 1280x1080i. Now they hide behind a statement that VOOM is upconverting to HD.
I think it is true that some of VOOM's content is recorded at sub-HD resolutions. So technically what Dish is saying is not a complete falsehood. But much of VOOM's archives are true HD, or so VOOM has strongly claimed.
VOOM was broadcasting several of their channels in 1440x1080 when they were a provider. So again, technically what Dish is saying has a grain of truth.
However a few months ago, about half of VOOM's channels were being broadcast by Dish at 1920x1080. Then Dish asked VOOM to downconvert, now they place the blame on VOOM's downconverted format.
Liars, Liars, Liars.
Dish has asked VOOM to transmit their channels to Dish at 1280x1080i. Now they hide behind a statement that VOOM is upconverting to HD.
I think it is true that some of VOOM's content is recorded at sub-HD resolutions. So technically what Dish is saying is not a complete falsehood. But much of VOOM's archives are true HD, or so VOOM has strongly claimed.
VOOM was broadcasting several of their channels in 1440x1080 when they were a provider. So again, technically what Dish is saying has a grain of truth.
However a few months ago, about half of VOOM's channels were being broadcast by Dish at 1920x1080. Then Dish asked VOOM to downconvert, now they place the blame on VOOM's downconverted format.
Liars, Liars, Liars.
RandallA said:In reality, Dish Network hasn't changed or done anything to the Voom channels. So we will continue to see HD Lite on all the Voom channels. Looks like HD Lite is here to stay.
Well, Equator WAS a fullbitrate 1920x1080i channel until last December, just as MonstersHD was.
So Dish HAS downgraded it.
I agree with Tom. When this issue peaked months ago E* responded to an email I sent to ceo by calling me to get my opinion. Since then it has been denial on E*'s part. Time to send this info to my local TV critic's....
Anybody can add anything to wikipedia, its hardly an official source of anything. Take a look at the talk page, its was written by someone who is ticked about HD lite on D*
HDTVFanAtic said:
What I meant to say is:
In reality, Dish Network hasn't changed or done anything to the Voom channels to improve the quality since the whole HD Lite discussion started.
VOOM had to drop down to 1440x1080i on their HD channels due to limited transponder space (single satellite and they quickly found out folks wanted a lot more standard SD cable channels). The promise (hope) was they would return to 1920x1080i after they went live on a 2nd leased satellite (SES Americom) and installed a bigger dish.
As far as source material, VOOM has a library of excellent HD that was transfered from film, and they even have a few movies shot with HD cameras (The Baroness and the Pig for example).
As far as source material, VOOM has a library of excellent HD that was transfered from film, and they even have a few movies shot with HD cameras (The Baroness and the Pig for example).
"When Voom was a provider they offered these channels as up converts to HD, and when we acquired there services, the signal remained the same."
WHAT A BOLD FACED LIE!!!! DO THEY TAKE US ALL FOR IDIOTS? WE SAW WHAT THEY WERE BROADCASTING PRIOR TO DEC. AND NOW. SO TO OUT AND OUT SAY IT WAS ALWAYS THE SAME IS RIDICULIOUS!
WHAT A BOLD FACED LIE!!!! DO THEY TAKE US ALL FOR IDIOTS? WE SAW WHAT THEY WERE BROADCASTING PRIOR TO DEC. AND NOW. SO TO OUT AND OUT SAY IT WAS ALWAYS THE SAME IS RIDICULIOUS!
riffjim4069 said:
Soooo DIsh has unlimited transponder space right now? the promise of dish (if this is the angle you want to take) could be that once they go full mpeg 4 we will see full rez again.... I am not trying to be a jerk, I am just tired of seeing lets go back to VOom days, when really you are getting Voom on Dish, just as it was with Voom! also you guys would wait for Voom but want to hang Dish by the neck! I have patience and will wait and see. I am happy with Dish Network and The HD I get. and in a week or two we will add another two channels wont we? Food and HGTV.
First, I'm glad you're happy with DishHD!stuart628 said:
I'm taking no angle...just stating the facts behind the VOOM Originals being 1440x1080i while on Rainbow-1. I'm not sure what points you are trying to make since I was not happy with VOOM being 1440x1080i while on VOOM DBS, and I'm generally satisfied with the overall quality and value of DishHD...even purchased a 2nd 622 recently. Please read through a small sampling of my almost 5000 posts, and articulate your position based on facts and not generalizations, prior to grouping me with the "yooze guys". BTW, based on my email with EchoStar and Rainbow Media executives late last year, I have little doubt that VOOM is at least equally culpable in this situation.Again, I'm glad you're happy with DishHD...I am too. I'm just not happy the VOOM-Lite situation has not resolved itself by now: only two of the VOOM 10 channels were 1920x1080i from May 1st, 2005 to the end of the year, and all of the VOOM HD Originals have been 1280x1080i for at around the past 5 months or so. To put things into perspective: I had VOOM DBS service for 2 weeks short of a year; I have had Dish Network service (and VOOM Pak/DishHD) for 1 week more than a year; VOOM DBS didn't last but year and a half. Nobody is wanting to go back to VOOM DBS...that bridge was burned long ago. Most folks just want more national HD and for the VOOM HD Originals to return to 1920x1080i.
riffjim4069 said:First, I'm glad you're happy with DishHD!
Again, I'm glad you're happy with DishHD...I am too. I'm just not happy the VOOM-Lite situation has not resolved itself by now: only two of the VOOM 10 channels were 1920x1080i from May 1st, 2005 to the end of the year, and all of the VOOM HD Originals have been 1280x1080i for at around the past 5 months or so. To put things into perspective: I had VOOM DBS service for 2 weeks short of a year; I have had Dish Network service (and VOOM Pak/DishHD) for 1 week more than a year; VOOM DBS didn't last but year and a half. Nobody is wanting to go back to VOOM DBS...that bridge was burned long ago. Most folks just want more national HD and for the VOOM HD Originals to return to 1920x1080i.
not attacking you personally...just to set the table
I am just saying all of these HDLite posts are getting out of hand! and I have seen alot that say Voom was the only real HD provider..yada yada yada Dish has done a great job with HD they have most of their channels at Full Hd (HDheavy?) and they are making the switch to mpeg 4 so lets see what happens there, and its also funny the people who say Dish needs to add more HD, give me my locals in HD, I want full rez HD, NO I DONT WANT YOUR NEW HD RECIEVER, Just fed up with it right now, so again no personal attacks here and sorry if it came out like that!
Just read my reply...sorry if it sounded snippy. I have DishHD because they offer the best overall value: most HD and best quality HD for the money. I have no problem paying my DishHD bills, and I have no problem dealing with temporary bandwidth constraits...however, I think all HD channels should be broadcast at an acceptable bitrate and in their native resolution of 1920x1080i/p or 1280x720p. Anything less should not be called HD. Hopefull this so-called "fiber problem" will be corrected in the near future. Even so, I sleep well at night knowing that I have two ClubDish referrals.stuart628 said:not attacking you personally...just to set the table
I am just saying all of these HDLite posts are getting out of hand! and I have seen alot that say Voom was the only real HD provider..yada yada yada Dish has done a great job with HD they have most of their channels at Full Hd (HDheavy?) and they are making the switch to mpeg 4 so lets see what happens there, and its also funny the people who say Dish needs to add more HD, give me my locals in HD, I want full rez HD, NO I DONT WANT YOUR NEW HD RECIEVER, Just fed up with it right now, so again no personal attacks here and sorry if it came out like that!
Some points:
1) VOOM from Dish is the lowest quality that this material has ever aired in. When VOOM was broadcasting directly, the channels were in 1440x1080. When they went to Dish, it was a mixture of 1920x1080 and 1280x1080. Then Dish took all of the VOOM channels down to 1280x1080.
2) Dish has never publicly announced that they lowered the resolution. They continue to promote the VOOM channels as an exclusive and wonderful addition to their HD lineup. Indeed, we pay an extra premium to get these channels.
3) When Charlie had a VOOM rep on a recent Charlie Chat, the VOOM rep spoke at length about all of the "true HD" they had in their library and thanked Dish for providing a venue to airing it. No mention was made that all of the content was being down-rezzed.
4) Dish previously told members of this forum that it was their intent to restore VOOM to 1920x1080 after making fiber upgrades. Upgrades that were scheduled to take place in 2006.
5) Dish is now placing the blame on VOOM and claiming that VOOM is providing them with HD upconverts, i.e., material that is sub-HD that has been upconverted to 1080i. However the vast majority of VOOM's library is not sub-HD, it is true HD. VOOM's library is not the problem.
What Dish needs to do is to come clean in all of this. They should openly acknowledge that VOOM is being broadcast in a pseudo-HD 1280x1080i format. That this is being done at Dish's request in order to provide 15 channels. They should state one way or the other if they intend to restore VOOM to 1920x1080i. And they should stop laying the blame on VOOM.
Just be open and truthful.
Of course, DirecTV could stand a little truthfulness in their HD claims too.
1) VOOM from Dish is the lowest quality that this material has ever aired in. When VOOM was broadcasting directly, the channels were in 1440x1080. When they went to Dish, it was a mixture of 1920x1080 and 1280x1080. Then Dish took all of the VOOM channels down to 1280x1080.
2) Dish has never publicly announced that they lowered the resolution. They continue to promote the VOOM channels as an exclusive and wonderful addition to their HD lineup. Indeed, we pay an extra premium to get these channels.
3) When Charlie had a VOOM rep on a recent Charlie Chat, the VOOM rep spoke at length about all of the "true HD" they had in their library and thanked Dish for providing a venue to airing it. No mention was made that all of the content was being down-rezzed.
4) Dish previously told members of this forum that it was their intent to restore VOOM to 1920x1080 after making fiber upgrades. Upgrades that were scheduled to take place in 2006.
5) Dish is now placing the blame on VOOM and claiming that VOOM is providing them with HD upconverts, i.e., material that is sub-HD that has been upconverted to 1080i. However the vast majority of VOOM's library is not sub-HD, it is true HD. VOOM's library is not the problem.
What Dish needs to do is to come clean in all of this. They should openly acknowledge that VOOM is being broadcast in a pseudo-HD 1280x1080i format. That this is being done at Dish's request in order to provide 15 channels. They should state one way or the other if they intend to restore VOOM to 1920x1080i. And they should stop laying the blame on VOOM.
Just be open and truthful.
Of course, DirecTV could stand a little truthfulness in their HD claims too.
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I believe they were supposed to be through with the fiber upgrade at the end of THIS May. Well two more weeks and we should be seeing something in true hd then right?
Maybe after they get the 118 sat up and they move it all to mpeg 4 broadcast they can afford the bitrate and go back to true hd?
Maybe after they get the 118 sat up and they move it all to mpeg 4 broadcast they can afford the bitrate and go back to true hd?
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MikeD-C05 said:
I hate to say it but I think you are a dreamer if you really believe that. When DISH started broacasting the VOOM channels. I thought that all the channels looked better then they did on the old VOOM DBS. Now they are all worse. I think it is called bate and switch. They threw out the bate of full HD and then after we were suckered in..they made a switch. A tactic worthy of David Copperfield.
I am just plain pissed.
