HD Free For Life (reg $10)

[Scherrman]

It's not so much about saving money as it is getting appropriate value for what I spend. I feel the cost is going up but the value is going down. Each year I'm paying more and getting less. What I'm paying now is well within my means. I can afford to pay more even, and would gladly do so if I was getting 120 channels of stuff I cared about. Hell, I'd pay more to get 20 channels I care about. But out of America's Top 120, there are only about 8-9 channels I care about.



It's about quality, not quantity.



That works under the incorrect assumption that all the channels on Dish are available a la carte on Roku.

What is your bill right now and what do you have for programming?

I myself am paying about $112 currently and that's after $20 in referral credits. Normally my bill is going to be around $130. For that price I get get 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys which allows me to have 4 independent TVs in HD and I can share all my DVR recordings. I also have Sling and OTA integrated in the system. I have over 1800 shows recorded. I can transfer shows to my iPad. I have VOD if I want it.

Tell me how that's not value. I would not expect to get all of those awesome features without having to pay for it. Now if all I had was a single TV with no DVR and was paying $100 I would feel like I'm getting little for my money. I don't think you can compare what you have now to what you had 10 years ago unless you still only have a single receiver with no DVR.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Mike, what would you have, drop all fees and absorb them into the programming packs? It has already been made abundantly clear that the profit margins with Dish are some of the lowest of its competitors. And, their fees are also in line or lower than many others as well. And don't give me the cable card crap, not a fair comparison.

Yes, I would rather have the fees absorbed into the programming packs if they won't cut them way back to a more reasonable rate. After all DIRECTV pads each of their basic programming packs by about $10.00 to pay for NFL Sunday ticket . I think that DISH lost its way when they started charging the dvr fee PER dvr receiver and then accelerated it in 2010 when they started charging the $17.00 per month for an additional Vip receiver. Now they get us all hooked on the 2nd hopper and jack the price , we balked and they relented with the grandfathered price and now here we are back to a $12.00 2nd hopper fee and $12.00 DVR fee for the hopper. This penalizes some of the people that want to really use the hopper in their households, not to mention those with VIP receivers. When your equipment FEES are almost as much as your programming a month , that is just ridiculous. The only people that come out all right in this mess is the single receiver household with no extras. IF you have 2 or 3 people that want to watch in each room, you are going to pay buddy. But I simply will not believe that the FEES that they have created ,have anything to do with their basic $5.00 per sub. They are there to enhance their bottom line and I am sure to pay for all the attorneys they have on retainer for all their multiple ongoing lawsuits. But like I said and we have discussed before DARE2Be, these fees and increases in said fees, as well as the annual programming hikes are going to lead to the eventual collapse of the entire sat/cable model that we have known for the last 20 years are so. I think that DISH is no longer looking to grow as a company , they are just trying to make all the money they can before the end comes.

 

[dare2be]

So you would rather penalize the people who don't use as much equipment and have everyone subsidize the heavy users. Gotcha.

 

[MikeD-C05]

So you would rather penalize the people who don't use as much equipment and have everyone subsidize the heavy users. Gotcha.

I'd rather not penalize anyone . I would rather that DISH charge a reasonable ,affordable fee for their receivers and dvrs and not try to gouge the hell out of the very people who love tv & that have more than ONE tv in their house . I see no difference between padding the programming packs with the fees that DISH wants to charge and the forced bundling we all pay for when we have any basic programming packs at DISH . Mainly the Espn channel that is forced on everyone from top 120 - AEP. It forces all of us to pay over $5.00 a month for this one channel whether we watch it or not. I think that just paying for programming and no extra fees would be easier for most people to stomach rather than the "low programming pack price" and then all the damn fees get added in to hike your price again up to the sky. I would pay over $31.00 a month for 2 hoppers and a joey and dvr fee if it weren't for the $5.00 credit for 18 months. Until this last month I did pay $31.00 but I also had a second joey in the mix. Now I cut out the 2nd joey but my dvr fee went up by $2.00 and the 2nd hopper fee went up by $5.00. I get less equipment and pay more. This leaves a very bad taste in most people's mouths. I am paying more and getting much much less in the way of equipment and programming too. I had to drop down to top 200 and drop all extras in order to cut the increases down to a minimum. I guess the key is we just need to bounce back and forth between DISH and DIRECTV every two years in order to get the best new customer deals, except I hated DIRECTV and their receivers sucked both times I had them.

 

[sremick]

What is your bill right now and what do you have for programming?

I myself am paying about $112 currently and that's after $20 in referral credits. Normally my bill is going to be around $130. For that price I get get 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys which allows me to have 4 independent TVs in HD and I can share all my DVR recordings. I also have Sling and OTA integrated in the system. I have over 1800 shows recorded. I can transfer shows to my iPad. I have VOD if I want it.

Tell me how that's not value. I would not expect to get all of those awesome features without having to pay for it. Now if all I had was a single TV with no DVR and was paying $100 I would feel like I'm getting little for my money. I don't think you can compare what you have now to what you had 10 years ago unless you still only have a single receiver with no DVR.

I have America's Top 120, BlockBuster @Home, and HD Free for Life. My bill is currently $66.99 but will go up another $5 soon once the 50% off BB@Home deal expires (6 months)

I have 1 TV, and 1 DVR receiver. 10 years ago I had 1 TV and the same DVR receiver (ViP722). I stand by my opinion that I have less value today than 10 years ago:

• 10 years ago I was paying more
• 10 years ago Dish Remote Access existed, which offered a lot more functionality and advanced features than Dish Anywhere. Now all we have is Dish Anywhere, which is far less-useful and missing the majority of what I could do with Dish Remote Access
• 10 years ago History Channel had relevant content. Now, that content has been moved to H2 (which didn't exist 10 years ago)... and while that's not Dish's fault, H2 is only available 2 programming tiers up from what I am on. The History Channel is now almost entirely trash that has nothing to do with "history". Hence, the available quality content on my package has been reduced.
• 10 years ago The Discovery Channel had relevant content, and The Science Channel didn't exist. Now the relevant content has all been moved to The Science Channel, again 2 tiers up, and TDC is all trash. If The Science Channel was still part of my package it wouldn't be an issue, but it's Dish's choice to charge me more to get the same content I was getting before.
• Same thing for other channels like TLC
• It wasn't 10 years ago, but I actually used the Blockbuster Movie Pass thing to get discs mailed to me at home pretty regularly. They took that away recently, and raised prices. Again: paying more, getting less.

I'm not saying there isn't inherent "value" in any scenario, whether it be mine or yours. Obviously you're very happy with what you're getting now for what you're paying, and I'm not disputing that or saying you're not allowed to feel that way. But I stand by my opinion that there is now less value in what I'm getting now than before, because the rates have gone up but what I'm getting has been reduced. I don't feel that's incorrect.

 

[Tampa8]

Your comments (perhaps true for some, perhaps not for others) are mixing DISH policies in with content of programming, perhaps a a reason for you to cut the cord much more than simply DISH somehow charging a little less.

 

[Tampa8]

I'd rather not penalize anyone . I would rather that DISH charge a reasonable ,affordable fee for their receivers and dvrs and not try to gouge the hell out of the very people who love tv & that have more than ONE tv in their house . I see no difference between padding the programming packs with the fees that DISH wants to charge and the forced bundling we all pay for when we have any basic programming packs at DISH . Mainly the Espn channel that is forced on everyone from top 120 - AEP. It forces all of us to pay over $5.00 a month for this one channel whether we watch it or not. I think that just paying for programming and no extra fees would be easier for most people to stomach rather than the "low programming pack price" and then all the damn fees get added in to hike your price again up to the sky. I would pay over $31.00 a month for 2 hoppers and a joey and dvr fee if it weren't for the $5.00 credit for 18 months. Until this last month I did pay $31.00 but I also had a second joey in the mix. Now I cut out the 2nd joey but my dvr fee went up by $2.00 and the 2nd hopper fee went up by $5.00. I get less equipment and pay more. This leaves a very bad taste in most people's mouths. I am paying more and getting much much less in the way of equipment and programming too. I had to drop down to top 200 and drop all extras in order to cut the increases down to a minimum. I guess the key is we just need to bounce back and forth between DISH and DIRECTV every two years in order to get the best new customer deals, except I hated DIRECTV and their receivers sucked both times I had them.

But I don't think you can have it both ways. DISH overall is still less than other carriers, you want them to drop or reduce fees, but not charge more somewhere else. If DISH were on the high end, it might be more of a case. Also you mention ESPN, that is out of the control of DISH unless they don't carry Disney channels at all. DISH has stated on previous occasions they would love to have sports separated. (Specifically the RSN's but Charlie did mention sports in general) I think they are actually doing it best for those that can least afford it with the present business model.
BTW - I don't have a HOPPER, and that is partly because of the fees, so I am not blind to them. I am however paying less for what I get than I would DIRECT (Not alot, but it is less) and waaay less than it would be with Charter, Fios, or Brighthouse.

 

[Yespage]

I'd rather not penalize anyone . I would rather that DISH charge a reasonable ,affordable fee for their receivers and dvrs and not try to gouge the hell out of the very people who love tv & that have more than ONE tv in their house . I see no difference between padding the programming packs with the fees that DISH wants to charge and the forced bundling we all pay for when we have any basic programming packs at DISH . Mainly the Espn channel that is forced on everyone from top 120 - AEP. It forces all of us to pay over $5.00 a month for this one channel whether we watch it or not. I think that just paying for programming and no extra fees would be easier for most people to stomach rather than the "low programming pack price" and then all the damn fees get added in to hike your price again up to the sky. I would pay over $31.00 a month for 2 hoppers and a joey and dvr fee if it weren't for the $5.00 credit for 18 months. Until this last month I did pay $31.00 but I also had a second joey in the mix. Now I cut out the 2nd joey but my dvr fee went up by $2.00 and the 2nd hopper fee went up by $5.00. I get less equipment and pay more. This leaves a very bad taste in most people's mouths. I am paying more and getting much much less in the way of equipment and programming too. I had to drop down to top 200 and drop all extras in order to cut the increases down to a minimum. I guess the key is we just need to bounce back and forth between DISH and DIRECTV every two years in order to get the best new customer deals, except I hated DIRECTV and their receivers sucked both times I had them.

Doesn't Dish have the lowest equip fees except for Directv in some cases? And I mean lower, by a mile. Don't Uverse and Time Warner charge $20 to $25 for a single box?

I have a single dual tuner HD DVR with Dish that I can easily hook to two TVs and with creativity hook three or four. The storage is easily expandable. I pay what $7 or $8 a month for the DVR/Guide fee for all of that.

I find that incredibly reasonable. I'm sorry if having three or four state of the art boxes is costing you money. Whudda thunk it?

 

[dare2be]

Doesn't Dish have the lowest equip fees except for Directv in some cases? And I mean lower, by a mile. Don't Uverse and Time Warner charge $20 to $25 for a single box?

I have a single dual tuner HD DVR with Dish that I can easily hook to two TVs and with creativity hook three or four. The storage is easily expandable. I pay what $7 or $8 a month for the DVR/Guide fee for all of that.

I find that incredibly reasonable. I'm sorry if having three or four state of the art boxes is costing you money. Whudda thunk it?

Precisely. And I with my one box am glad I'm not paying for the access to Mike's equipment by having the money absorbed into my programming package.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Precisely. And I with my one box am glad I'm not paying for the access to Mike's equipment by having the money absorbed into my programming package.

But you are paying the forced bundling with ESPN that effects all of us. So it looks like if you have one box the current system is all for you and if you have a family that watches on more than one tv at a time you are penalized by DISH's FEES. So a family with the hopper system is going to pay ,especially if you have the 2nd hopper now. Well I guess that makes you happy Dare2Be and would explain why you don't want any changes.

 

[Yespage]

But you are paying the forced bundling with ESPN that effects all of us. So it looks like if you have one box the current system is all for you and if you have a family that watches on more than one tv at a time you are penalized by DISH's FEES. So a family with the hopper system is going to pay ,especially if you have the 2nd hopper now. Well I guess that makes you happy Dare2Be and would explain why you don't want any changes.

You can watch Dish on more than one TV at a time with a 722k.

 

[dare2be]

But you are paying the forced bundling with ESPN that effects all of us. So it looks like if you have one box the current system is all for you and if you have a family that watches on more than one tv at a time you are penalized by DISH's FEES. So a family with the hopper system is going to pay ,especially if you have the 2nd hopper now. Well I guess that makes you happy Dare2Be and would explain why you don't want any changes.

I'll bet that many of the "outlet fees" are coded into the contracts with channel providers...if you have many viewers in a single household, the channels want their piece of the viewership, in addition to just the carriage fee from a particular programming package. There is a somewhat rhyme or reason to the fees, which is a combination of # of tuners, and # of outlets. The fact that all MVPDs do this lends me to believe that all these fees are not all going directly into the MVPDs pocket, that the providers demand it.

 

[Scherrman]

I'd rather not penalize anyone . I would rather that DISH charge a reasonable ,affordable fee for their receivers and dvrs and not try to gouge the hell out of the very people who love tv & that have more than ONE tv in their house . I see no difference between padding the programming packs with the fees that DISH wants to charge and the forced bundling we all pay for when we have any basic programming packs at DISH . Mainly the Espn channel that is forced on everyone from top 120 - AEP. It forces all of us to pay over $5.00 a month for this one channel whether we watch it or not. I think that just paying for programming and no extra fees would be easier for most people to stomach rather than the "low programming pack price" and then all the damn fees get added in to hike your price again up to the sky. I would pay over $31.00 a month for 2 hoppers and a joey and dvr fee if it weren't for the $5.00 credit for 18 months. Until this last month I did pay $31.00 but I also had a second joey in the mix. Now I cut out the 2nd joey but my dvr fee went up by $2.00 and the 2nd hopper fee went up by $5.00. I get less equipment and pay more. This leaves a very bad taste in most people's mouths. I am paying more and getting much much less in the way of equipment and programming too. I had to drop down to top 200 and drop all extras in order to cut the increases down to a minimum. I guess the key is we just need to bounce back and forth between DISH and DIRECTV every two years in order to get the best new customer deals, except I hated DIRECTV and their receivers sucked both times I had them.

Please don't tell everyone that a company is gouging people when you have no idea what kind of margins they make or how their business operates. This is where I get very upset with people who do not run a business. This is very similar to people who like to tells other how do do things even though they have no experience themselves. It's like me saying I could be a better coach for the Iowa Hawkeyes than Kirk Ferentz.

Put yourself in their shoes before you criticize too much. Extra fees are a part of every business whether you know it or not. We sell TVs and appliances along with Dish and I have to find ways to make a profit with the very slim margins we have. We charge $10 to $20 for disposal of appliances and TVs even though it's doesn't cost us anything. We also charge $10 for someone to rent out an appliance mover. A business has to find ways to make a profit or else what's the point?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

It seems these days that people forget that businesses are in business to make a profit. Profit is not a dirty word.

 

[Scherrman]

But you are paying the forced bundling with ESPN that effects all of us. So it looks like if you have one box the current system is all for you and if you have a family that watches on more than one tv at a time you are penalized by DISH's FEES. So a family with the hopper system is going to pay ,especially if you have the 2nd hopper now. Well I guess that makes you happy Dare2Be and would explain why you don't want any changes.

There are plenty of people that love to watch sports and ESPN but could not afford to pay for those channels a la carte. The way it's bundled now is the only affordable way for some people to get the most popular channels with ESPN. The Smart Pack would probably be the most popular package if it included ESPN.

 

[david_jr]

Obviously (from the discussion) there is no one size fits all and no proposed scenario that would work for everyone. Here with 5 users (wife and 3 kids age 12 to 20) and 3.0 DSL, marginal OTA, our best option Dish even with its increased fees is our best option as is. Streaming is not a great option because @ $30 I would be more broke than now in short order. I think we all have to do what works best for our situation and budget. I could do without completely but I pay because my family likes "their" shows. If I get to where I can't pay, we will start cutting back for sure.

 

[Teehar]

It seems these days that people forget that businesses are in business to make a profit. Profit is not a dirty word.

No it isn't but GREED sure is!

 

[Scherrman]

It seems these days that people forget that businesses are in business to make a profit. Profit is not a dirty word.

Very true. This is one of those "Walk a mile in their shoes" kind of stories. My brother-in-law has always worked for other people. He grew up on a farm, went to school for electrical and plumbing work and got a job for a business in town here. He quit his first job and now does maintenance for a larger business. To me he was always the type that always felt he was a hard working person and was being screwed by "The Man." Now don't get me wrong, he is a very hard working person but was always working for someone else.

He still works the same job but since has opened up an archery store in town with his dad and uncle. It's a big hobby of their's and they turned into a pretty good business. Since he has started this business I have noticed a big difference in his attitude towards things. He thinks from a business point of view. He understands why things are they way they are. He knows it's important to keep business local. He seems how big of a pain customers really are and how rude they can be.

I feel like I'm rambling but I hope I am making some kind of point. If not, oh well. I hope you enjoyed story time.

 

[Scherrman]

No it isn't but GREED sure is!

I agree but who decides where Greed starts and where it ends?

 

[Teehar]

I agree but who decides where Greed starts and where it ends?

How about Les Moonves for starters.If you have read some of his comments,wouldn't you agree he is being greedy?How about Charlie Ergen,saying we fight to keep your bills lower,then keep piling on higher rates,$5-$15 per month in consecutive years.Sure sounds like greed to me.