HD DVD is this true?

[LOBO2999]

I found this at a yahoo tv Groups

Folks, the downrez over component is a flag set in the DVD not in the player. Many studios are not committed to setting the flags on their DVDs as of yet. If the DVD does not tell the player to downrez analog, it will show the DVD in whichever flavor your TV shows its HD signal (1080i or 720p). If the DVD does have the flag set, the packaging is required by law to say so.

IN other words, its a waiting game but too early to be miffed. JUst make sure you buy a player with component out AND you only buy DVDs without the downrez flag.

 

[boston area dtv]

Ive read about down rezing in other posts on here. I guess Im dumb but why what is the advantage for the DVD and Blu Ray companies. I dont understand about the flag and down rez stuff. Can someone explain?

 

[Ilya]

Yes, it is true. Just a few threads down there is a thread titled "Blu-Ray and HD-DVD downconverts your output!!!" which explains what's going on.

No studio would comment on whether it plans to take advantage of the Image Constraint option.

Within the AACS consortium, however, Warner Home Video was consistently the strongest proponent of the idea, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.

20th Century Fox Home Entertainment is not a member of AACS, but has argued against the idea in other forums.

AACS-member Disney, as well as non-members NBC Universal and Paramount, are likely to take advantage of the option, according to sources with knowledge of the studios’ thinking.

Although Sony is a member of AACS, where it sometimes clashed with Warner on the issue, sources said it is still unclear whether Sony Pictures Home Entertainment will take advantage of the ICT option now that it is in place.

 

[Ilya]

Ive read about down rezing in other posts on here. I guess Im dumb but why what is the advantage for the DVD and Blu Ray companies. I dont understand about the flag and down rez stuff. Can someone explain?

Some studios are just paranoid about their content. Since component output doesn't offer HDCP protection the way digital outputs do, they want to reduce the resolution on it, so it would not be possible to make high-quality copies. Pretty stupid position IMHO, especially taking into account that consumer HD DVRs don't accept component input anyway.

 

[gizzer777]

yEP...

I found this at a yahoo tv Groups

Folks, the downrez over component is a flag set in the DVD not in the player. Many studios are not committed to setting the flags on their DVDs as of yet. If the DVD does not tell the player to downrez analog, it will show the DVD in whichever flavor your TV shows its HD signal (1080i or 720p). If the DVD does have the flag set, the packaging is required by law to say so.

IN other words, its a waiting game but too early to be miffed. JUst make sure you buy a player with component out AND you only buy DVDs without the downrez flag.

Right on the money...Unfortunately, the public for the most part are unknowing sheep being lead to the slaughter!

Not to mention those "Geek Squad" types that really do not know a computer from an abacus! One of them tried to tell me a restore partition on a notebook was a separate hard disk! (had no idea what a logical partition was!)

THE POOR PUBLIC...has no idea that what they get from an HDTV is setup in TORCH mode, and has to be adjusted properly to get the good picture....not with Contrast and brightness and " sharpness" turned to max!

They only repeat what the company reps teach them...right or wrong!

Same holds true for the TV sales types at Best Buy type stores....they have no clue that Pizza signals are highly compressed and that MOST HDTV's out there will take a 1080i signal and downconvert to the TV's native resolution (usually 720P) And then there is the proj Bulb issue in the RP HDTV's of today!
Jeff

 

[Brewer4]

I do my thing to support causes. I even support some of the HDLite fanatics (Sign petitions, email providers, etc.). But this one, if inacted, will get me not only boiling but highly active. I am taking a wait and see on this and only hope the studios have the better sense not to do it but if they do, I will become just as crazy as the HDLite posters here.

Rest assured folks on the fence, there will be people like fighting like mad to point this out and remove it. I think this one hurts the HD cause more than anything to date.

 

[gizzer777]

NO Question

I do my thing to support causes. I even support some of the HDLite fanatics (Sign petitions, email providers, etc.). But this one, if inacted, will get me not only boiling but highly active. I am taking a wait and see on this and only hope the studios have the better sense not to do it but if they do, I will become just as crazy as the HDLite posters here.

Rest assured folks on the fence, there will be people like fighting like mad to point this out and remove it. I think this one hurts the HD cause more than anything to date.

These guys never learn.....you can bet the flag will be on ALL Sony Movies (a bunch) and the others will follow! Then someone will figure out a way to remove it...and here we go again! The technology will improve after initial bugs are found as well....Typical corporate short thinking...protect against pirates while losing 5x as much $ from those of us on the fence! I hope the fence is well supported...all my HD friends refuse to buy due to the HDMI/Component Flag issue! Let em eat cake!
jeff

 

[rcbridge]

I'm not buying into it ,so they lost a potential customer, I have been an early adopter with some of the new technologies but I will wait or do nothing on this one!!

 

[vurbano]

I will buy the HDDVD's and wait for the copyprotection to be hacked and the HDDVD PC drive to be available. Then copy them to my server. If the format is to be mpeg2 I should be able to stream them to my Avel LP2 and watch the HD on my HDTV which does output 1080i over component and upconverts commercial DVD's to 1080i. If its mpeg4 I will have to convert the files. If the files are in one of these formats why but a 500 or 800 dollar HDDVD player?

 

[gizzer777]

Could I ask....

I will buy the HDDVD's and wait for the copyprotection to be hacked and the HDDVD PC drive to be available. Then copy them to my server. If the format is to be mpeg2 I should be able to stream them to my Avel LP2 and watch the HD on my HDTV which does output 1080i over component and upconverts commercial DVD's to 1080i. If its mpeg4 I will have to convert the files. If the files are in one of these formats why but a 500 or 800 dollar HDDVD player?

Could I ask which HDTV you have that does 1080i native? My HP plasma and Mits RP HDTV (both 2006 models) each are 720P native. They do a poor job downconverting back to 720p when I feed a 1080i signal to them! HOWEVER, they do a great job UP converting 4dtv sd and 480p from my Pioneer Elite DVD, I do not even permit the DVD player to upconvert!


BTW: AGAIN...Let em eat cake and starve the buggers out with this downconverting without HDMI stuff!
I have HDMI 1.1 on both, but like you will just let them suck on it, until the hackers defeat it! Then MAYBE I will consider, but right now, I am perfectly satisfied with my HD setup, inc the HDD200 for the 4dtv! (1st gen signal as opposed to 3rd gen pizza!

Interesting issue with the "Fair use law" Yes, you can make a legal backup of media for your own personal use (Dogs love DVD and CD roms) but it is illegal to break Copy protection schemes....Screwey huh. The number of tools to permit backing up a DVD is huge!


regards
jeff

 

[herdfan]

especially taking into account that consumer HD DVRs don't accept component input anyway.

I don't know they are worried about Joe Consumer who might make a copy and give to his neighbor and the bandwidth constraints would make internet availability an issue. I think the concern is that "commercial" facilities will take the component output and make almost perfect copies and mass produce bootleg disks for sale on the street.

 

[jayn_j]

I don't know they are worried about Joe Consumer who might make a copy and give to his neighbor and the bandwidth constraints would make internet availability an issue. I think the concern is that "commercial" facilities will take the component output and make almost perfect copies and mass produce bootleg disks for sale on the street.

And those are exactly the people who will quickly learn to defeat the system. Uh, how hard is it to build a box that detects a flag in a data stream and clears it, while not disturbing the rest of the stream? Any electronics 201 lab class could do it. No this flag hurts the average Joe consumer and nobody else.

 

[navychop]

Why bother removing the flag? Just have your commercial grade/pirate grade equipment ignore the flag. Make your copies with the anti copy flag still intact. Then your copies can't be copied by your competition, unless they also are on such a scale as to also have equipment that ignores the flag.

The Hollywood studios must despise their customers.

 

[samatha6]

Why bother removing the flag? Just have your commercial grade/pirate grade equipment ignore the flag. Make your copies with the anti copy flag still intact. Then your copies can't be copied by your competition, unless they also are on such a scale as to also have equipment that ignores the flag.

The Hollywood studios must despise their customers.

You are assuming that the encryption will be broken to make digital copy for copy. The Image Restraint Token is used to down rez any analog copying from an HD device to a video capturing system. If what you say is true, and the pirates can make copies with ICT still intact.. then that means they have broken the encryption itself.. at which point it would be very easy to cut out all region coding, macro vision, ICT, etc.. And if that happened, I think the studios would stop making software right then and there and leave the HD Hardware developers high and dry. Nobody will be able to crack HD encryption.. It is military grade.. If it happens, it will be like last time where the keys were compromised by a manufacturer. It will be interesting to see if they keep a lid on it this time.. I think they will have more success with their encryption being they failed miserably last time around. The studios are more then paranoid about HD encryption.

But the interesting thing is that CATV HD and DBS HD does not have any Image Contraint Token. People talk about pirates being able to copy HD from HD DVD's from the discs.. But what is already happening is people are posting the HD TS files on the net that have been captured from CATV/DBS HD streams. And believe it or not, I have seen Network DVD players for sale that can except a HD TS stream via RJ-45 from a Desktop PC. HD piracy has already begun. So I can understand the studios paranoia about ICT. Its one thing for somebody to download a huge 18 gig file on usenet, its quite another for somebody to make a perfect 1080p copy in real time with a rented HD DVD using a capture system. Also, I don't think file size is going to protect the content for long. A fast cable connection will do the job in less time then it takes for you to sleep at night.

Just from what I have seen so far, I think the studios are going to loose the war with the pirates, and already have with HD streaming on TV systems and even OTA HD. So like usual, the ones that will ultimately suffer with ICT and other DRM tools will be the honest Joe who pays for everything.

If the studios really want to plug the analog hole then they will need to require CATV/DBS HD receivers to have HDMI to TV or ICT will be enabled. The problem is, they did not think of that when they intiatially implimented HD for CATV and DBS. So now it may be too late for them to plug that hole. Pirates don't need to use HD DVD's to steal content.. They will use the path of least resistance.. and that is on TV streams.. If the studios really want to protect HD content.. they have to plug ALL the holes.

And that leads me to my last point.. As I understand it, the Japanese HD DVD players will not have ICT enabled.. So all the movies that are released in Japan in HD will be full rez using component outputs. Thus thats another outlet for pirates to leak new releases on the net in HD as I see it.. If I am wrong please correct me.. But it only takes one digital copy to be leaked out to create a huge problem for the studios.. As you can see, ICT does not look like a viable means to stop the dedicated pirates.

I think that alot of people may figure out how to pirate HD content to their HD TV that normally would not even try it. But with many people with expensive HD TV's with component outputs, I can see them trying to figure out other means to deliver full HD rez to their TV's. If they can't do it legally because of ICT, then they may try other means. Thus the studios will lose money on customers that otherwise would have gladly invested in HD software.. but with ICT, they chose not to.. I wonder if the Studios have thought about that?

 

[David_Levin]

Could I ask which HDTV you have that does 1080i native?

There are lots....

Most CRTs are 1080i (although actual measured resolution is usually somewhat less).

Then there's Sony SXRD, and the new generation of DLP (I've seen Samsung and Mitsubishi).

I believe some plasmas are 1080 too.

Here's an example of the Samsung:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/DLPTV/HLR5078WXXAA.asp

Downside of the current 1080 DLPs is that the HDMI (and all inputs), only support up to 1080i. So, if we ever get a 1080p source, these TVs will not handle it.

There isn't any front projection 1080i yet.

PS Remember that the terms "Progressive" and "Interlace" tend not to apply to digital display devices (LCD, DLP, SXRD, LCOS, Plasma). Interlace is a function of scanning an electron beam in a CRT.