HD-A2 only $299.99!

[JoeSp]

Anytime a brand new product hits the stores and two months later gets a 25% price drop means that product is not selling. The only hope that Toshiba has is to drop the price where mainstreamers can make a purchase but the question begs -- just how much is Toshiba losing on this? There are no analog outs on this model, hd sound only thru the HDMI port and very few people in this price range have hdmi receivers so no hd sound for them. No, I think this is a product dumping movie by Toshiba. Read my post on Blu-Ray outselling HD-DVD 7-3 for 2007 and you might just come to the same results. As soon as the Pirate movies , Spiderman movies and Pixar movies come out on BD only (Pirates and Cars titles using JavaBD and yes they are already out on DVD) the mainstream will see the HD-DVD camp start waving a white flag.

Doe not anyone here think that it is pecular that Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, LG and other BD player manufacturers are not following Toshiba into the sinkhole? If HD-DVD sales are decreasing as Nielsen says they are then HD-DVD is definately in trouble and this is the last ditch effort by Toshiba to do something about it. If this move by Toshiba does not drastically improve HD-DVD discs sales immediately then we might see a winner before XMAS!

 

[teachsac]

Joe,

Are you serious?

1. Anytime a brand new product hits the stores and two months later gets a 25% price drop means that product is not selling.

First of all, The A2 came out in November and the XA2 in December. The Toshiba A2 and the XA2 are the two top selling Stand Alone Next Gen DVD players. The price drop was planned at CES with the introduction of the midline A20. Within this same time frame, Sony, Hitachi, etc. have all dropped their price, also. With the DBP-S1 out for less than 1 month, what happened at CES? They announced their new second Generation Player at a cheaper price point. What does that say?

The only BD capable player that has sold a large number of units is the 60GB PS3. And what is its main purpose? A gaming machine that happens to play movies. If you look at the total disk sales and and the total number of players (PS3 and Stand alone) the attach rate is about .3-.5 titles depending on the figures used. That is not great, but I'll address this in your other thread.


2. There are no analog outs on this model, hd sound only thru the HDMI port and very few people in this price range have hdmi receivers so no hd sound for them.

Does the PS3? I though it had HDMi and optical.

3. If HD-DVD sales are decreasing as Nielsen says they are then HD-DVD is definately in trouble and this is the last ditch effort by Toshiba to do something about it. If this move by Toshiba does not drastically improve HD-DVD discs sales immediately then we might see a winner before XMAS![/QUOTE]

This is somewhat true. If you look at weekly sales then they are up and down depending on the number of titles released. This holds true for both formats. The total number of disks sold is not that far off seeing how HDDVD didn't release anything for two months, a lot of it due to BD holding up Warner titles. Having both formats, if I was CEO of Warner, I would've dropped BD in a heartbeat. I'll address Warner more in your sales thread.

Overall, there are two things that must be present for a format to win over the other. 1. Price and 2. Studio support. HD-DVD has the price advantage and BD has the Studio support. However, the total number of titles available for both formats is even. Why? Warner and Universal have the two largest video libraries.

S~

 

[navychop]

If HD-DVD sales are decreasing as Nielsen says they are ....

In absolute numbers or market share?

... the 60GB PS3. And what is its main purpose? A gaming machine that happens to play movies.

And I thought it was a movie player that happened to play games. -Yeah, the wife didn't buy it either. Tastes great - less filling!

 

[CochiseGuy]

Anytime a brand new product hits the stores and two months later gets a 25% price drop means that product is not selling. Does not anyone here think that it is peculiar that Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, LG and other BD player manufacturers are not following Toshiba into the sinkhole?

Sigh.

Amazon Prices, List Price, Discount, & Sales Ranking (in Electronics):

Toshiba A2: $306.88, List :$399, Discount:23% Sales Rank:99
Toshiba XA2: $563, List: $899, Discount: 49%, Sales Rank: 166
Samsung BDP1000: $469, List: $899, Discount: 48%, Sales Rank: 1092
Sony BDPS1:$799, List:$999, Discount: 21%, Sales Rank: 1476
Philips BDP 9000: $799, List: $999, Discount: 21%, Sales Rank: 3647
Panasonic BD10: $1099, List: $1299, Discount: 16%, Sales Rank: 14,329

There are no analog outs on this model, hd sound only thru the HDMI port and very few people in this price range have hdmi receivers so no hd sound for them.

There are two HD audio formats - DTS MA and Dolby TrueHD. The DVD forum mandated all HD DVD certified players be able to decode them internally and output them as PCM through either analog or HDMI digital. Correct, the A2 can only output them via HDMI. But, the player is able to extract the "core" of both audio formats and output them up to 1.5Mbps via digital optical. The XA2 retains the analog outputs, in addition to HDMI 1.3.

The BDA forum did not mandate any requirements for the players to be able to decode any of the HD audio formats. To get around this, the better BD titles are encoded with uncompressed PCM. The sound is great (from what I've read), but as it's uncompressed, it takes up to 3x the disk space of HD audio formats. I guess they had to find some use for all the extra disk space?
However, because of the bandwidth, uncompressed PCM can only be output through through analog or HDMI. The BD players listed above cannot decode DTS MA / TrueHD, but they can output PCM through analog of HDMI. But, the best selling BD player (and least expensive) - the PS3 - has only HDMI or digital optical outputs. So, no HD audio for them, unless they have an HDMI receiver.

With the Amazon sales rank of 99 for the A2, 166 for the XA2, followed by sales ranks of 1,092; 1,476; 3,647, & 14,329 for BD players, I hardly think one can say the HD DVD players "aren't selling", or that this is "product dumping".

However, I think we can agree that with the new aggressive player pricing from Toshiba and the strong upcoming release schedule of HD DVD titles, we do need to see a strong sales of titles. And note the Neilson numbers include only actual sales, not any pre-release orders. With the strongest release schedule yet for both formats happening in late May, the June Nielson reports should be interesting.

 

[JoeSp]

Can I take a Do Over? I got the A2 mixed up with the XA2. I still believe that Toshiba is dumping the product and that is why the considerably low price. And they still are losing money on the sale. Would be interesting if they continue to produce the A2 as a $300 HD-DVD player would definately enhance their standalone sales and might give the HD-DVD camp the shot in the arm to reinvigorate their HD discs sales. Of course this will kill their XA2 sales but maybe right now Toshiba is just trying to survive. I wonder if the BD camp has anything to answer with? More than inovation -- competition really brings the prices down.

 

[vurbano]

I guess computers selling for $2000.00 today and six months later they are selling for $1000.00 is an indication that computers is a dying technology.

Read the link. http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2007/tc20070406_288377.htm?campaign_id=yhoo

The HDDVD group has a concise business plan to win this so called format war
unlike the BDA/Sony approach.

well said.

 

[vurbano]

Sigh.

Amazon Prices, List Price, Discount, & Sales Ranking (in Electronics):

Toshiba A2: $306.88, List :$399, Discount:23% Sales Rank:99
Toshiba XA2: $563, List: $899, Discount: 49%, Sales Rank: 166
Samsung BDP1000: $469, List: $899, Discount: 48%, Sales Rank: 1092
Sony BDPS1:$799, List:$999, Discount: 21%, Sales Rank: 1476
Philips BDP 9000: $799, List: $999, Discount: 21%, Sales Rank: 3647
Panasonic BD10: $1099, List: $1299, Discount: 16%, Sales Rank: 14,329

those sales rank numbers look like an A@@ kicking to me

 

[teachsac]

Toshiba is using the A2 as an entry level for Joe6P (not pointed at you Joe ). You know that is just the general term for the average consumer. The A20 will be for the wannabe AVphile that bought the latest/greatest 1080p TV, and the XA2 for the true enthusiast. BD would be wise to come out with an entry level player at that price point. Like I said before, whoever truly wants to win DOES have to take the pricepoint, also. Not just the studio support. The average consumer is price conscious and is always looking for the better bargain/value.

S~

 

[pro96]

VE is matching the price.

Still has it @ $399.99

If He Price Match and includes the 7 free HD-DVDs, I might consider one.

 

[navychop]

7? I thought it was 5. At seven, they're almost paying me to take a player off their hands.

I firmly believe that title availability counts the most. But I see in myself such temptation over this price point that I guess I've underestimated the draw of a cheap player, even to early adopters.

OK, not so firmly.

 

[vurbano]

LOL :haha

 

[CochiseGuy]

7? I thought it was 5. At seven, they're almost paying me to take a player off their hands.

I firmly believe that title availability counts the most. But I see in myself such temptation over this price point that I guess I've underestimated the draw of a cheap player, even to early adopters.

OK, not so firmly.

The offer from Toshiba is 5 free HD DVD's, for purchase of any player between March 1 through July 31 2007. There's a specific list of titles you can choose from: http://www.thelookandsoundofperfect.com/_pdf/perfectoffer_advert.pdf

The offer from Robert @ ValueElectronics.com is an additional 2 free HD DVD's, or a 4 Yr. "bumper to bumper" extended warranty, also available separately @ $39.99. He was price matching the $299.99 price from J&R Music World for a few days, but J&R seemed to have sold out, so VE is back up to $399.99. I bought my player from VE almost a year ago, and it was very good service. But, in checking on Amazon, I see for $309.90. So, anyone interested should check around.

EDIT: I was just back on the VE site & the price has been lowered again. Anyone interested should probably just call the toll-free number on their site.

Not that I would try to convince anyone to go with HD DVD.