Grounding question

[RickNY]

Hi.. DISH Network installed my dish today along with a DVR-522 receiver.. They werent independent contractors - they worked for DISH, itself.. Anyway, I don't believe they grounded the system.. This is what they setup: Dish 500, installed with an 8' steel pole mount - the pole was installed 2' into the ground, and set with cement.. Then, the coax goes along the front of the building and directly into the building.. There is no ground clamp visible anywhere, nor was a separate ground wire run to any type of building ground..


Can someone tell me exactly what needs to be grounded in this type of install? I know there is supposed to be a grounding block as close to where the coax enters the house, with a ground hooked to an acceptable building ground from there.. But I am also under the impression that the steel pole mount was also supposed to be grounded as well..

Anyone have the definitive answer on this.. I plan on calling the installer back to correct this once I know exactly what the requirements are here... FWIW -- the 2 guys that did the install were a field supervisor along with the QA supervisor..

Thanks,
Rick

 

[Liquidforce88]

Well if the system is to be grounded properly the dish and the coax should be grounded. If it is dual cable there should be a 17ga solid copper wire that runs along with the coax. The one end should be attached to the pole, the other end should go on the ground block. Then both of the coax leads should go into the ground block. Then a 10ga solid copper or 8ga aluminum wire should goto the house electrical strap or bonded cold water.

If the coax has no "grounding" (we call it a messanger wire) with it then a seperate 10ga wire needs to run from the dish back to ground.

 

[joshnoel]

Hi.. DISH Network installed my dish today along with a DVR-522 receiver.. They werent independent contractors - they worked for DISH, itself.. Anyway, I don't believe they grounded the system.. This is what they setup: Dish 500, installed with an 8' steel pole mount - the pole was installed 2' into the ground, and set with cement.. Then, the coax goes along the front of the building and directly into the building.. There is no ground clamp visible anywhere, nor was a separate ground wire run to any type of building ground..


Can someone tell me exactly what needs to be grounded in this type of install? I know there is supposed to be a grounding block as close to where the coax enters the house, with a ground hooked to an acceptable building ground from there.. But I am also under the impression that the steel pole mount was also supposed to be grounded as well..

Anyone have the definitive answer on this.. I plan on calling the installer back to correct this once I know exactly what the requirements are here... FWIW -- the 2 guys that did the install were a field supervisor along with the QA supervisor..

Thanks,
Rick

Dish has to be grounded period. NEC code. plus static electricity will build up on the dish and disipate through lmbf causing lmbf failure, receiver or both

 

[joshnoel]

sorry wasnt specific

dish antenna to ground block, ground block to ground rod

 

[RickNY]

OK.. The field supervisor came back today at my request.. Made a lot of lame excuses about why it wasn't grounded, and attempted to ground it -- although 'his way', I felt was completely ineffective.. My only concern was for him to stick the ground block in the middle of the coax.. I don't have the proper crimping tools to do it myself, plus I felt the ground block should have been put in, since 'grounding to NEC code' was supposed to be included with the install..

So, there is a single coax with no messenger going to the ground block.. He originally ran the ground wire from the ground block to the pipe going up into my electrical meter.. That pipe had previously been painted and I don't think his ground strap would have done anything.. So what I did was this:

My apartment has a storage shed attached to it.. Within that shed is my electrical panel.. In the shed is also where the coax enters the crawlspace of the building.. The coax goes down into wall plate.. Another RG6 comes out of this wall plate and plugs into a separator.. The separator leads plug into SAT 1 and SAT 2 on the back of the DVR-522.. The installer installed the ground block within that shed, then fed the ground wire outside of the shed to the pipe going into the meter.. What I did was brought the ground wire back inside of the shed, and instead, fed it into my electrical panel in the shed.. I connected the ground wire to an unused terminal on the bottom that had a buss with the main building ground attached, as well as the neutrals..

Should this be sufficient? Was my re-do of it OK?

Rick

 

[joshnoel]

that will work. execpt ground the pole that the dish is on. double protection is always better especially if lightning is a issue

 

[RickNY]

If I ground the pole and the dish as well, I can run a separate ground wire from the pole to the grounding block, correct? That way the coax and the pole are both bonded to the same ground?

The dish is about 15 feet from the grounding block..

 

[joshnoel]

you are good

 

[RickNY]

Lots of thanks for the help!

 

[Liquidforce88]

His original ground would have worked. Your ground also works, but remember as a Dish installer we can not go into the panel as you did. You would have to be an electrician.

Atleast all is good now.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Dave: Attaching a clamp or strap to a painted pipe is NOT "bonding". No good.

 

[RickNY]

Now, if the installer had sanded the surface area of the conduit to remove the paint prior to installing the ground clamp, would that be OK?

Just so everyone know, I finished everything today.. Went to Lowes and picked up 30 ft of 10 ga wire... Attached the ground clamp the installer had used on the meter pole instead to the bottom of my pole mast, attached the wire, and ran it into grounding block.. SO.. This is what I have:

Ground Clamp on Mast -> Grounding Block. Grounding Block -> Ground Buss inside electrical panel.

The wire from Mast to Block is 10 gauge, stranded copper.. The wire from Ground block to breaker panel is 10 gauge, solid copper..

Sound like Im set? The DISH is not likely to ever experience a direct lightening strike.. Im more concerned about it sending static and transients into my receiver.. I realize this is the secondary benefit to the primary purpose of grounding - but I think I have all the bases covered now.

Rick

 

[Remilk]

When I installed my Dish set-up 6 years ago, I grounded the system at 2 places. I picked up 2 Copper Ground Rods, about 3-1/2 feet long, and a ground wire (aluminum, though I would have preferred copper) at Radio Shack.

1. At the base of the pole mount, I pounded in one of the grounding rods. I then sanded the paint of the ground connector at the dish. I attached the ground wire here and ar the ground rod. These both were mechanical connections using a pointed screw.

2. At the point the satellite cables entered the house, I added a ground block. Here I also pounded in a ground rod and attached a ground cable with the mechanical.

The advantage of using a ground block is:
1. Grounding capability
2. When you need to replace the cable that are run underground, you do NOT have to be concerned with the wiring in the house.

Disadvantages:
1. Slight signal loss (about 2 points on a scale of 125) based on a 60 foot run.

Right or wrong, this is the same method that my father, an electrician, taught me.

When I upgraded to the Super Dish a year ago, the Dish Installer (Dish Employee, not a sub) was pleased with the grounding and re-used it. He told me he wished all the subs would do it that way. Not sure if he knew what he was talking about, but it stroked my ego.

I am a Happy Dish Owner!

Bob Milk

 

[Mike_H]

Unless you bond the grounding rods to the house ground system they really won't do a whole lot and may allow for ground faults to develop within the receiver.

http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/GB-HTML/HTML/Grounding-Bonding-Poster~20030914.htm

http://www.nemasurge.com/help.html#grounding

All references I've been able to find over the past many years argue against using ground rods unless necessary and when used that they be bonded to the building grounding system.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Now, if the installer had sanded the surface area of the conduit to remove the paint prior to installing the ground clamp, would that be OK?

Yes, removing the paint would do it.

Just so everyone know, I finished everything today.. Went to Lowes and picked up 30 ft of 10 ga wire... Attached the ground clamp the installer had used on the meter pole instead to the bottom of my pole mast, attached the wire, and ran it into grounding block.. SO.. This is what I have:

Ground Clamp on Mast -> Grounding Block. Grounding Block -> Ground Buss inside electrical panel.

The wire from Mast to Block is 10 gauge, stranded copper.. The wire from Ground block to breaker panel is 10 gauge, solid copper..

Sound like Im set? The DISH is not likely to ever experience a direct lightening strike.. Im more concerned about it sending static and transients into my receiver.. I realize this is the secondary benefit to the primary purpose of grounding - but I think I have all the bases covered now.

Rick

Yes, you're fine - even though you're not supposed to use stranded wire, it's plenty good enough to drain static.

Note that the PRIMARY purpose of grounding is to eliminate static build-up (attracts lightning) and static discharge (fries things).

There's no way in heck that a little 10 gauge - or even a 0 gauge - wire is going to carry lightning current.

 

[SimpleSimon]

As for the ground rod and bonding debate, there's two sides to the story.

One is electricians that deal with 110/220VAC and can't spell TV, DBS, RG-6, etc.

The other is low-voltage radio-techie types that actually understand what's going on.

Note that the ground rod bonding thing is called for by the NEC, not the FCC - get it?

 

[josem3]

In Florida, I saw three years ago a ground block fried after bad lightning strom happened in the area. No receivers damaged neither a dish, just a ground block.Probably a static discharge example.
After that experience, I recommend all my customer to use a good surge protector, in Florida(the only way to protect from lightning storm, period).

 

[Fishnuts2]

Mike H is right. You can have multiple ground rods etc. BUT they all must be bonded together and connected to the Building's ground.

BTW, was your installer SBCA certified?

 

[DucTape]

Hi.. DISH Network installed my dish today along with a DVR-522 receiver.. They werent independent contractors - they worked for DISH, itself.. Anyway, I don't believe they grounded the system.. This is what they setup: Dish 500, installed with an 8' steel pole mount - the pole was installed 2' into the ground, and set with cement.. Then, the coax goes along the front of the building and directly into the building.. There is no ground clamp visible anywhere, nor was a separate ground wire run to any type of building ground..




Thanks,
Rick

I would be concerned about the 8 foot pole being installed only 2 feet in the ground if I were you. That is if you live in an area with a frost line anyway.