Grounding options.

[syphix]

Yes, you should report him.

Did he install ground block(s) on the feed cables? If there's any switches involved, they can take the place of ground blocks. Either way, are THOSE grounded? What type of installation is it? We need to know all details you can think of in order to recommend solutions. That means dish type(s), switches if any, receiver types and count, how the cable(s) are routed - and how many, anything and everything you can think of.

I can only tell you what I know...and that's not much:

He installed what looked to be a dual LNB Dish 500 (it said "DishPro") w/ the 522 receiver (it's working fine...stop laughing!!). He ran the two coax lines under the wood soffet (sp?) and then down a brick corner. He drilled into the house, directly into the living room, with a big ass drill, and that's about it. I have NO idea what kind of switch (if any), whether there were ground blocks installed, etc. etc...(I have no clue what a ground block is, let alone if it was installed...). All I know is I clearly see two lines coming from the dish, down the soffet, and into the house. No grounding wire, no "block" that I know of.

I've already called Dish, and they were ready to send out a (different) tech on Thursday, though I'm leaving town Wednesday night until the 10th. They then said, "Well, how 'bout Tuesday the 10th?"

"Um...I already took a day off work for this mess..I'm not doing it again."

It's scheduled for that Saturday, no charge (better not be!!).

UPDATE: I just Googled "ground block", and can firmly say, "No ground blocks were installed."

 

[PSB]

Get them back out your system is at risk! Call the boss of the installation company and tell him 10,000 members here are reading about his total disregard for his customers property and safety (he will be right round himself to fix it), I would not be too happy, in fact I would have went one step further with anyone coming into my home and putting my family at risk!

 

[syphix]

Call the boss of the installation company and tell him 10,000 members here are reading about his total disregard for his customers property and safety..

I don't know the name of the installation company..I called the ClubDISH phone number for the install...

 

[PSB]

At least they are coming to fix it, make sure they do it to code, one day all satellite systems will be grounded to code : )


http://dbsinstall.com/Whatis/Whatisgood-5.htm

 

[Bobby]

I don't know the name of the installation company..I called the ClubDISH phone number for the install...

Surely he left a receipt, that you signed. It should name the company that did the installation.

 

[syphix]

Surely he left a receipt, that you signed. It should name the company that did the installation.

Ahh..never thought of that...I'll look at it when I get home tonight, thanks!

 

[ShadowEKU]

I really hate to ask this... but did he at least seal the "big hole" into the house? sounds like he didnt even use drip loops... hmm water running down wires into house getting in walls, into electrical outlet, fires.... get them to fix anything that looks like it could be dangerous.

 

[syphix]

I really hate to ask this... but did he at least seal the "big hole" into the house? sounds like he didnt even use drip loops... hmm water running down wires into house getting in walls, into electrical outlet, fires.... get them to fix anything that looks like it could be dangerous.

No. He didn't (and it wasn't that big of a hole...just enough for the coax). I feel sorry for the tech that has to come out and fix all the installers mistakes. But...oh well. It'll be fixed Aug. 14th (I out of town this weekend, and I am NOT taking another day off for this!).

Oh, and you're right, Shadow: no drip loops. They may have to rewire the whole damn thing 'cuz he left no slack to even CREATE loops.

 

[ShadowEKU]

you might want to seal the hole around the wires... my recommendation is to take some Great Stuff (the canned insulation) spray it (sparingly) into the hole and let it seal up the air flow... then take some silicone or some other weather seal compound and cover the outside portion of the wires and anything that could leak into the house... im not sure if the installer is responsible for that but ide do it to be safe if ya know what i mean.

 

[SimpleSimon]

The installer is (should be/) responsible for sealing the hole.

I always do.

Meanwhile, because it's being redone, I wouldn't goo it up. If it's really bad, stuff some rubber foam weatherstripping in it for the short-term.

 

[ShadowEKU]

The installer is (should be/) responsible for sealing the hole.

I always do.

Meanwhile, because it's being redone, I wouldn't goo it up. If it's really bad, stuff some rubber foam weatherstripping in it for the short-term.

Yeah I kinda meant after they "Fix" it... not before... if they have to run new lines...which they might in order to stick in 2 grounding blocks... that would really suck to have to ungoo the hole.

 

[syphix]

Okay..so the new service guy is here, and he's about as clueless as the first guy... He's sealing the hole, but I determined that a drip loop is not required since the line dips before entering the house.

Now, grounding: His words, exactly: "Yeah, it's company policy to ground, but really..I don't see a reason usually to do it...but if you want it grounded, I'll ground it."

Whoa...it's "company policy", yet he believes he's greater than those who CREATED the policy, and he alone can determine whether or not to ground a dish??? Is this how ALL Dish installers think??

NEWBIES/SOON TO INSTALL: **DEMAND** THAT YOUR DISH IS GROUNDED!!

EchoStar will be getting a nasty letter from me regarding this...I can't believe this...

 

[Wayd Wolf]

They can use a grounding block in-line with your cable runs. The dish itself does not need to be grounded. Do your runs go near any cold-water pipes?

I got the spiel from the guy that teaches the techs about grounding.

Wrong! Please re-read the NEC sections germane to satellite dishes and other RF antennas.

The dish AND all coax lines must be grounded. It is the responsibility of the installer to do so and do so properly. If the combined length of the line from LNB through ground blocks to the receiver is too long, then an amp at the dish would be necessary.

The cold water can be used IF it is connected properly to the household electrical system ground and IF it has enough metal pipe in the ground on the other side of the foundation and IF the strap is placed between the foundation penetration and the first break, ie, BEFORE the water meter or first joint.

A ground rod can be used IF it is connected properly to the household electrical system and IF it goes eight feet into the ground, etc.

Pounding a separate ground rod may not be addressed by the state of KY, but you can bet the town building codes will not to mention the NEC and basic electrical physics. A second ground rod not properly bonded to the household ground electrode system can very easily cause a ground loop fault, and the results of this are well documented and often seen by firefighters and EMTs.

MAKE the installer do it or get another. DO NOT let them pound a ground rod of their own and DO NOT let them ground to a garden hose spigot and DO NOT let them ground to a drain pipe, etc.

 

[Wayd Wolf]

Okay..so the new service guy is here, and he's about as clueless as the first guy... He's sealing the hole, but I determined that a drip loop is not required since the line dips before entering the house.

Now, grounding: His words, exactly: "Yeah, it's company policy to ground, but really..I don't see a reason usually to do it...but if you want it grounded, I'll ground it."

Whoa...it's "company policy", yet he believes he's greater than those who CREATED the policy, and he alone can determine whether or not to ground a dish??? Is this how ALL Dish installers think??

NEWBIES/SOON TO INSTALL: **DEMAND** THAT YOUR DISH IS GROUNDED!!

EchoStar will be getting a nasty letter from me regarding this...I can't believe this...

Believe it. Even FSMs have been known to ignore the grounding requirements on a regular basis and the QAS miss errors that Stevie Wonder would see in a fog.

Grounding is NOT optional, and NOT to satisfy some anal executive management, and NOT to mollify the legal department. It is to prevent firefighter EMTs from having to carry your charred corpse out of your extra crispy domicile.

And people, while you are at it, get yourself a lightning rod system as well.

And multiple ground rods are NOT kosher unless they all bond to each other. This is not a recommendation, it is electrical physics. Sooner or later you WILL have a problem because of this and something that should go to the ground of the household electrical system will instead go over the shield layer of the coax from your receiver to the separate dish ground rod and that shield isn't designed to drain 120 or 240 VAC.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Wayd Wolf is again going overkill on the multiple ground rod issue. Yes, code in SOME areas says multiple ground rods need to be bonded, but the ground loop issue only arises with 120VAC equipment, not the low-voltage DC stuff we're talking about here.

Is it better to bond the 2 rods? Maybe. Certainly not worse.

One thing. After 24 years as a firefighter, I've not seen a ground loop cause a fire - the worst it can do is cause the gear to have improper operation - but it certainly will NOT catch fire.

And ANY ground rod will take care of lightning - the dang lightning couldn't care less about finding the household ground. The "electrical physics" is that the lightning strike wants to find the closest EARTH ground that it possibly can.

The main objective of grounding the dish is to dissipate static, thereby minimizing the chance of a direct strike. NONE of the grounding wire used will carry the current of a lightning strike. If anything, it might 'encourage' a strike to follow it - which is why you want to ground things very close to the point of entry to the structure, and outdoors if at all possible.

 

[MaintMan]

grounding

Want to clarify a statement about switches. Switches must be installed after the ground block. Switches are not a substitute for the ground block.
The grounding point on the switch is to dissipate static. The ground block is to take the hit before any switches or IRD's. The code says all electrodes (ground rods) must be tied together. If metallic pipe is used, it must also be grounded. The increasing use of non-metallic pipe has changed the rules about grounding as the non metallic pipe is so prevalent. I know for fact most installer use switch as ground, but that does not make it right, only quicker. Which is why I no longer install. There is no reward for doing it right, only for doing it fast!

 

[SimpleSimon]

I'm sorry, but I get some DAMN tired of these people that think they know something.

Any switch with a grounding point is fine in place of a grounding block. If you actually understood how static dissipation worked, you'd know that. The chassis of a switch is connected to the coax shield. A grounding block is exactly the same thing.

Go look at these installation diagrams ON THE DISH NETWORK WEBSITE, note where the ground marks are, and whether a ground block is shown or not, then feel free to come back here and apologize.