Grounding and other questions

[armadillo_115]

Hello! I'm new to this forum as well as to C Band.I was given a 7.5 KTI mesh dish and plan to install it for C band only.I have not done a 'string test' on the dish yet but it appears to be in excellent shape.No loose panels,tears.or holes.The dish doesn't even need paint.Some surface rust on the circular mounting ring that will need touching up and adding pole to replace what I sawed off.

The dish will be 120 ft from the house.I will use a ground rod/ground block at the dish and another ground rod/ground block at point of entry at the house.Both will be bonded back to the house main ground as required by code.The question is: Do I still need the 'messenger' wire ground on the coax,or will just coax suffice ?

Next: Am I correct that the RG6 must be solid copper core rather than the cheaper copper clad?

And finally a 3rd question: How much will I be limited by the smaller (7.5) dish size? I wish to receive stations like Grit ,MeTV,network channels and Spanish channels like Univision and Telemundo.I'm in a bad area for OTA and this dish will be my main source of live tv.

Thanks for your assistance ! I'm sure I will have more questions after I get the pole up.Lots of landscaping, grading, and digging to do before then though.

I have researched these forums for days and here is what I have or plan to get based on what I have read.My income is limited but I'd prefer to do it RIGHT the first time.Any advice on purchases is much appreciated.Thanks!

KTI 7.5 polar mount mesh dish
Super Jack 24" (Untested to date)
C1-PLL C-Band LNBF to purchase (Possibly a dual output to connect a second tv)
Motor control wires to purchase
VBox to purchase
RG6 coax to purchase (Would prefer RG11)
GeosatPro MicroHD OR Amiko Mini HD SE to purchase (no interest in IPTV.Use a Roku3)

 

[FaT Air]

To the forum.
I wouldn't add extra ground rods. BUT make sure your ground block at the entry point is bonded to the homes ground rod directly. Another thing I'd do is make a loop in the wires entering the premises between the ground block and your inside equipment. Also make a loop in any wire connected to your equipment that leaves the premises. (Power, tele, LAN actuator cable) DO NOT put a loop in the power wire of a surge strip.

Copper clad is sufficient. Solid copper would be advisable if using a USALS motor Ku dish. RF flows on the conductor surface (RF Skin effect) DC flows throughout the conductor.
RG6 vs RG11. Don't think you'd run 11 all the way to your receiver or LNBF, so there would be connectors and adapters. That, IMHO, is potential loss. If under 300 ft I'd stick with RG-6. LNBF to receiver in one chunk (except for the ground block)

KTI's are good dishes. Because of the size, you may be marginal on high FEC transponders and may run into some adjacent satellite interference. Those here that have a 7.5 may 'chime in'.
You can always 'keep lookin' and upgrade later.

I'll add this: pages I wrote that may help in tuning up your BUD http://theho.web.fc2.com/BUD/ (Sorry for the ads, I gotta get it hosted somewhere else, without ads)

 

[Comptech]

I agree Fat air,use the house ground. But grounding is a science, I lost a 4DTV and a S9 to lightning a couple of months ago the only two thing hooked to the dishes at the time. All other electronics in the home were fine, even my modded WNC multiswitch still works. I guess some how the static voltage came down the center conducter and fried them. Meanwhile my OTA antenna and four scanner antennas did not hurt anything. I would use solid copper quad sheild RG6 for your setup as lnbf"s still need voltage and every little bit is a small improvement. Also forget that vbox and contact Titanium for a real dish mover. Just got mine today and haven't used it yet, but built like a brick s##* house. I only tried one vbox and it could not pull my 12 footer up from a low satellite.

 

[Comptech]

also remember that the outer shield of the coax becomes part of the antenna. The stuff it picks up won't show up on a sat receiver but it will add noise if a ground block is not used.Not crucial but can make a improvement. By grounding the shield that noise is bled off to the ground.

 

[Jason S]

Welcome Armadillo!

It sounds like you got a dish in great shape. I have a rescued and refit 7.5' KTI (branded as an Echostar). Starting basically from scratch, a Titanium C1-PLL LNBF replaced the original LNB w/servo, Commscope 8136 ribbon cable (dual RG-6, with wiring for a servo motor and shielded wiring for the sensor). A Titanium ASC-1 powers the actuator ( 24" Von Weiss), with an overall cable length around 120'.

It has generally been a good performer for most transponders, including the stations you listed and many of the high FEC transponders, at least where I am located. However, there are many transponders across the spectrum that seem to be on the verge of locking or only marginally received. Overall, being my first C-band dish, I've been quite happy with it.

 

[armadillo_115]

Thanks for the tips so far! To clarify why I believe I need the extra ground rods: The grounding block where the cables enter the house is 30+ feet from the house main ground.The maximum distance Code allows is 20 feet without adding another ground rod.(Unless I have misread).
I plan to use ham rotor cable disconnects on the motor cables and rg6 quick connectors inside the house.That way I can unhook everything quickly before a thunderstorm.Thanks again,and good night everyone.

 

[N6BY]

...C1-PLL C-Band LNBF to purchase (Possibly a dual output to connect a second tv)...

If I were you, I would start with a C1PLL. I say that because my C2PLL gives me a lower signal level and quality compared to my single output LNBF. With a 7.5' dish it could make the difference as to whether you receive the channel you want. Even with a 10' dish, there have been many times with a marginal transponder when the C2PLL would not do the job, but the single output version worked. So now I just use the single output LNBF.

 

[armadillo_115]

If I were you, I would start with a C1PLL. I say that because my C2PLL gives me a lower signal level and quality compared to my single output LNBF. With a 7.5' dish it could make the difference as to whether you receive the channel you want. Even with a 10' dish, there have been many times with a marginal transponder when the C2PLL would not do the job, but the single output version worked. So now I just use the single output LNBF.

I didn't realize a dual output would give lower quality reception.I'll stick with a single output then and save on only one coax to boot.Does the wideband C1PLL receive as well as the C1-PLL C-band LNBF 3.7 - 4.2GHz WiMax and WiFi Filter? I'd like to pick up the lower range Spanish channels on SES 40.5...but not at the expense of everything else.Thanks!

 

[Titanium]

The only difference between the C1W-PLL and the C1-PLL is the frequency range and if wide area WiFi or WiMAX is used in your area. The performance is identical in the 3.7-4.2 range if no interference is present.

The WiMAX / wide area WiFi filter in the C1-PLL model will provide excellent reception in the 3.7 - 4.2 C-band frequency range if this type of interface is present.

 

[armadillo_115]

Oops....forget the last question.It appears that the channels of interest are circular.I'll just go with the C1-PLL C-band LNBF. The WiFi filter may be may be necessary anyway because someone is installing a wireless internet tower about 1 mile S/SW of me.

 

[Titanium]

An Internet tower (wide area WiFi or WiMAX) located a mile away and not in line of sight between the dish and the satellite MAY not cause any problems. A neighbor's wide area WiFi or WiMAX installation a few hundred feet away probably would be a problem.

 

[armadillo_115]

An Internet tower (wide area WiFi or WiMAX) located a mile away and not in line of sight between the dish and the satellite MAY not cause any problems. A neighbor's wide area WiFi or WiMAX installation a few hundred feet away probably would be a problem.

Thanks Titanium.I'm not sure exactly what they will be doing at that site.I was told that the new owner provides wireless internet service in a near by town.This could be a relay transmitter.Looks to be at least a 60 ft free standing tower laying on the ground.I better drop by and ask them exactly what freq they may be transmitting and go from there.There is a ridge between us that I 'THINK' will prevent LOS.

It will suck if I can't get C Band here...but better to know now before I start spending money.Rats...always something!

 

[harshness]

If you're lucky, it will be microwave or some technology that is, at least partially, a directed beam.

WiMAX ran out of steam a few years ago.

 

[Titanium]

The C1-PLL should address the potential interference from this service. The only problem that you might have is if they use the 3.65GHz frequency AND your neighbor installs their service with line of sight on the front side of your dish. Otherwise, you should not have any problems receiving C-band.

 

[Titanium]

WiMAX is experiencing major growth internationally and I expect the services to gain momentum in the North America. The hardware cost has dropped dramatically in the past year as production has ramped up to meet the demand in new launch countries like the Philippines. Intel just entered the market with a new WiMAX chipset and prices are expected to tumble.

BTW... the C1-PLL is selling like hot cakes in the Philippines.

 

[harshness]

WiMAX is experiencing major growth internationally and I expect the services to gain momentum in the North America.

Name some familiar companies that offer service to the United States.

 

[Titanium]

Google is your friend....

The 3.5/3.65GHz spectrum is licensed and used by many providers. Here is a partial list of active and defunct WiMax providers broken down by country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WiMAX_networks

More C-band frequencies are on the block very soon:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/save-our-cband.346373/

 

[harshness]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WiMAX_networks

How many of those listed are you familiar with? I know of a couple of them (I received some Fairpoint in a stock deal) but there aren't many bigs. As you said, some of them have packed it in.

Also note at the bottom of the Americas listing that Sprint (Clearwire) is shutting down this coming November in favor of LTE.

WiMAX appears to be receding rather than advancing.

 

[Titanium]

Call it WiMAX, wide Area WiFi, 4G LTE or ????... It's the carrier causing the issue not the signal type. Regardless of the modulation type or company name, the licenses continue to be sold/traded, spectrum use increases and the data companies want even more of it.

Google 3.65 4G LTE

 

[armadillo_115]

Ok,I finally caught the (Soon-to-be) tower owner today.Tower will be 120 ft high so it will be LOS to me except for the trees.Transmitting on 2.45 Ghz and 900 Mhz to start with. (Guy called it a quad leg antenna or something.) Other freqs might be added later.Does this sound like it will be a problem for my C band?

Also: I'm leaning toward the GeosatPro MicroHD receiver for the closed captioning capability.Is CC available on most channels? Any pros or cons to this receiver? I have read the specs,but being a noob,I'm not sure of what to look for.Thanks in advance!