Grounding a New Install?

[kirkdj]

I had Dish installed with one of those superdish units. I noticed that the installer didn't install a ground rod or ground it in any way other than the boxes being grounded by the 110V plugs. The pole for the dish is in concrete, maybe 18" of it is in the dirt below the concrete.

Should it be grounded better and who should have done it? If so, where should it be grounded?

 

[Dishpointer]

Yes it should be grounded and Dish Network is responsible for doing the work. I would call them back and tell them that your system isn't grounded and that they are responsible according to the law. Read this thread: http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=61663

 

[kirkdj]

Official Grounding Policy?

Thanks, I read the thread you mentioned. Does Dish have an official policy for the installers on this grounding issue? Does anyone know?

 

[Cokeswigga]

Thanks, I read the thread you mentioned. Does Dish have an official policy for the installers on this grounding issue? Does anyone know?

the Rg-6 are supposed to be grounded before coming into the house, and the dish is also supposed to be grounded.

connecting the dish to it's own ground rod may not be sufficient:

www.mikeholt.com

 

[dewaynej8]

We are required to install a ground block between the dish and dp-34 running a ground wire from the dish to the block most of the time using the messenger wire, I use dual rg-6 with messenger and a single rg-6 and the another ground wire from the ground block to the homes ground at the meter base or frame on a mobile home I use #10 from the block to the meter base ground always keeping the #10 shorter than the shortest run of coax to the nearest rxr

 

[kirkdj]

We are required to install a ground block between the dish and dp-34 running a ground wire from the dish to the block most of the time using the messenger wire, I use dual rg-6 with messenger and a single rg-6 and the another ground wire from the ground block to the homes ground at the meter base or frame on a mobile home I use #10 from the block to the meter base ground always keeping the #10 shorter than the shortest run of coax to the nearest rxr

From your message, are you a Dish installer? If so, my dish is on the opposite side of my house(about 75') from my electrical service and the dish is about 25' from the house. In this situation what would be the best to ground the system? A copper ground rod by the dish? I've read this won't do...but I read something about rare instances of some kind of ground loop interference....I would be willing to take the chance on this occuring. I live in La. and the ground conditions are 60% of the time wet.

 

[R-U-Q-R-U]

From your message, are you a Dish installer? If so, my dish is on the opposite side of my house(about 75') from my electrical service and the dish is about 25' from the house. In this situation what would be the best to ground the system? A copper ground rod by the dish? I've read this won't do...but I read something about rare instances of some kind of ground loop interference....I would be willing to take the chance on this occuring. I live in La. and the ground conditions are 60% of the time wet.

I had the same problem. The original installer did not ground my system. My electrical main is on the other side of my house. I called E* and they sent our another professional installer and he installed a 4 foot ground rod and installed the grounding blocks for the coax.

There is no interference from using the grounding rod. From all the information I received here it is very important that your system be grounded and the installer told me he uses grounding rods all the time with no problem.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about grounding but the good people on this forum have provided great information

 

[fishman]

no dish network installers should be installing ground rods, a separate ground rod should be back-bondd to the regular house ground, and you are going to do that you may as well run the coax over there and forget about the separate rod

 

[kirkdj]

I called

I called Dish and they are sending someone else out....they started to say something about it depends on what area you live in as to wether they ground....pointed out I was an electrician....and I knew the NEC codes and asked if they follow those....she came back and said they were sending another installer and they would supply all materials for the grounding, including the ground rod....not sure on the length.

 

[larrystotler]

NEC says ALL wiring must be grounded. Wiring is more important since it actually enters the structure.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Hey Larry - ever notice how these questions run in cycles? Whole bunch of grounding threads now and there won't be any for months after this - just like last year.

Anyway, each of the various posters above are both right and wrong.

The pertinent phrase is "It Depends". 4' ground rod - someone will chime in that that's not good enough, NEC says it's gotta be 8'. YOU try pounding an 8' rod into Pikes Peak Granite. But I've heard that some places in the California looney bins, it's gotta be 10'. Bonded, not bonded. what gauge to bond with. Blah, blah, blah. IT JUST DEPENDS.

If you run into a ground loop problem, then bond the puppy.

Who can install a ground rod? IT DEPENDS on where you are. In some places in the idiot farms back east, the flipping unions have everything so tied up that it takes one union guy to hold the rod, one from a different union to hold the hammer and a third guy to attach the wire, and so forth.

 

[twillers]

We are required to install a ground block between the dish and dp-34 running a ground wire from the dish to the block most of the time using the messenger wire, I use dual rg-6 with messenger and a single rg-6 and the another ground wire from the ground block to the homes ground at the meter base or frame on a mobile home I use #10 from the block to the meter base ground always keeping the #10 shorter than the shortest run of coax to the nearest rxr

Why are you required to install a ground block?
The following is an excerpt from the installation guide for the DP34 switch.The address is, "http://www.satelliteone.com/dish/support/DISH_Pro_DP34_Installation_Guide.pdf

"The switch takes the place of a ground block. Article
820-40 of the National Electrical Code (NEC) states that
you should locate a ground block as close as possible to
where you have the system connected to the ground (for
example, to a water pipe or rod driven in the ground). So,
do the same for the switch."

If what I read is correct, a grounded switch eliminates the need for a ground block.

 

[cdru]

Why are you required to install a ground block?
The following is an excerpt from the installation guide for the DP34 switch.The address is, "http://www.satelliteone.com/dish/support/DISH_Pro_DP34_Installation_Guide.pdf

"The switch takes the place of a ground block. Article
820-40 of the National Electrical Code (NEC) states that
you should locate a ground block as close as possible to
where you have the system connected to the ground (for
example, to a water pipe or rod driven in the ground). So,
do the same for the switch."

If what I read is correct, a grounded switch eliminates the need for a ground block.

It can take the place. It really depends on how you have your setup. Typically the wires are grounded at the entry point to the house. But what happens when the multiswitch isn't mounted at the entry point? It may be mounted at the dish to have having to run multiple long lengths of cable unnecessarily. It may be mounted in an inside wiring closet. There are just so many different combinations of how to ground things that's it's impossible to say how things should be 100% of the time.

Another thing that doesn't help is the variations of codes and different revisions. In the above text, it says you can ground to a water pipe. Once you could, but current NEC says you can't as you can't rely on it being continuous metal and grounded. As Simon says (hehehe) some people say 4 feet is good enough for a dish ground rod, others say 8 feet. I know my local code says 8 feet for the electrical ground, but yet Comcast installs 4 foot non-bonded rods at their ground points.

I'm no electrician, but I would imagine that some ground is slightly better then no ground. But the same ground is always most preferred.

 

[mudder1310]

Why are you required to install a ground block?
The following is an excerpt from the installation guide for the DP34 switch.The address is, "http://www.satelliteone.com/dish/support/DISH_Pro_DP34_Installation_Guide.pdf

"The switch takes the place of a ground block. Article
820-40 of the National Electrical Code (NEC) states that
you should locate a ground block as close as possible to
where you have the system connected to the ground (for
example, to a water pipe or rod driven in the ground). So,
do the same for the switch."

If what I read is correct, a grounded switch eliminates the need for a ground block.

The reason you'd use a ground block instead of grounding the switch is a ground block costs pennies while the 34 is spendy. If you ground the 34 directly you increase the chances of it failing, thus replacing the expensive part.

 

[twillers]

The reason you'd use a ground block instead of grounding the switch is a ground block costs pennies while the 34 is spendy. If you ground the 34 directly you increase the chances of it failing, thus replacing the expensive part.

Then why does it say in the dp34 instructions, "the switch takes the place of a ground block?" If they didn't want you to ground it they wouldn't put it in the instructions. Why would grounding the switch increase the chances of it failing? If anything it would lessen the chances of it happening. Besides when you ground the coax you are grounding the switch. It is just better to do it at the source.
In other threads in this forum that talking about grounding, I've read where some people ground both the switch and the coax.

 

[mudder1310]

Let me clarify. I didn't mean not to ground the system at all. If you use a 34 switch you should ground the coax using a ground block rather than running ground wire to the switch itself. The reason being that any charge on the ground wire from any source would have a greater chance of causing the switch to fail if it's the only ground point, rather than at a separate point.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Let me clarify. I didn't mean not to ground the system at all. If you use a 34 switch you should ground the coax using a ground block rather than running ground wire to the switch itself. The reason being that any charge on the ground wire from any source would have a greater chance of causing the switch to fail if it's the only ground point, rather than at a separate point.

Unh. Maybe. I can envision some scenarios where the opposite would be true.

A ground loop between the switch chassis and the ground block for example.

Very rare of course - but just as likely as your scenario.

 

[Dishpro66]

Static, Static, Static . . .

I was just briefed today by a Dish QC Coordinator. Every Line going from either the dish, or a switch must be grounded to the house ground... ie..... Cold Water Clamps, Beaker Box Clamps, etc . . . . No Ground Rods whatsoever. We must take digital pics of all grounds and include with our paperwork. I'm sure this is coming for everywhere very soon!

I have had so many customers call Dish saying there were no grounds.... because they were looking for a rod, by the dish. Not there, it taint supposed to be ! ! !

The ground isnt for Lightening, which most customers believe..... It's static, static, static.... we're trying to keep from frying the receivers !

donnie

 

[cdru]

I was just briefed today by a Dish QC Coordinator. Every Line going from either the dish, or a switch must be grounded to the house ground... ie..... Cold Water Clamps, Beaker Box Clamps, etc . . . . No Ground Rods whatsoever. We must take digital pics of all grounds and include with our paperwork. I'm sure this is coming for everywhere very soon!

I have had so many customers call Dish saying there were no grounds.... because they were looking for a rod, by the dish. Not there, it taint supposed to be ! ! !

You were briefed incorrectly. Current NEC code says you CAN'T ground to a water pipe and to rely on a breaker box clamp is dumb as well. You are assuming (yes potentially making an ass of u) that someone else hooked up the ground correctly. Grounding the dish/block/switch to ground is the correct and most preferred way of doing it. To say that you can't/shouldn't ground to a grounding rod is just flat out WRONG!

 

[mudder1310]

An installer will ground to whatever his training directs. In the case of an E* tech, power meter, ground strap, ground rod, and cold water within 6' of where it enters the house are all accepted ground sources.