Greek package, requires SuperDish?? I need help please

[dslmoc]

This seems to be the right place to resolve this question!

My father in law has the Greek channels package subscription and 2 subscribed receivers. I set this up for him many years ago. I don't remember the model number of the old receivers, but I do remember that I used single LNB dishes and had them pointed at 148 degrees.

A few months ago Dish contacted him and said that he needed to update his old receivers, so they gave him a Dish 381 receiver and also replaced the dish at his house to a SuperDish with multi-LNBs. I assume this had something to do with Nagra 3? Anyway, he wanted to update the second receiver, so I bought him another Dish 381 from ebay. We got it setup with the help of Dish tech support using the SuperDish at his house. His other location doesn't have a SuperDish, it still had the single dish pointed at 148 degrees. Anyway, today I was trying to get it to work for him using the old single LNB dish. According to lyngsay and ekb, the Greek channels are on 119 and 61. So I pointed the single lnb dish to 119, but it's not picking up the channels and they don't show in the guide.

Basic questions:

1) Where did the Greek channels move?
2) Do you really need the SuperDish to receive them?
3) If not, which bird do we point the single LNB dish to?
4) If yes, I'm curious as to why the 3 or 4 channels in that package needs to come from more than 1 bird, annoying.. :rant:
5) Will Dish provide another SuperDish or do I have to purchase it?

Thanks for any assistance.

 

[Pen15head]

you are going to need two birds. you will need 118.7 to get the greek channels. migrations have moved them off of 61.5/148 . then you will also need either 110 or 119 to be able to keep rec updated with most current software, which will be required for rec to stay authorized. and for this the superdish will not work. superdish was 110 119 and either 105/121. instead you need dish500+, which is 110 119 118.7. this will require as well a switch to combine the sat feeds. if your trying to save money, you can use an sw21 switch to combine 119 and 118.7, or if your dad wants local channels, find out if they are on 110 or 119, and use the correct local sat with 118.7. if you get a dp34 or dpp33 dpp44 switch then you can run all 3 feeds.

as for getting the dish, if your dad is willing to sign a 24month commit to keep the greek language pack at 32.99 a month he can get a free install and dishupgrade with needed switch. if not, you can get from claude at dishstore.net the 500+ dish kit with lnbs for 129.00. if you do not have a multiswitch, then you can get an sw21 switch for 19.75. thats 150.00 for the both. if you need the mounting kit, with the footing pole and struts he has that for 22.00.

 

[dslmoc]

then you will also need either 110 or 119 to be able to keep rec updated with most current software, which will be required for rec to stay authorized.

Okay, well that explains why the old dish isn't working. It's quite unfortunate IMHO.

instead you need dish500+, which is 110 119 118.7. this will require as well a switch to combine the sat feeds.

I misspoke when I said "SuperDish". The Dish 500+ is what he must have at his house because I remember the setup screen showing those 3 sats. It's a big oval looking dish with a multi-LNB assembly and big switch attached to the back.

as for getting the dish, if your dad is willing to sign a 24month commit to keep the greek language pack at 32.99 a month he can get a free install and dishupgrade with needed switch....

He already got this at his house. That must be how he got it setup for free, I don't know a lot of the details he doesn't speak English too well and his wife and daughter don't know what's going on.

He pays the $5.00 a month to have the second receiver. It's the second dish that I was wondering about getting another freebie from Dish. They should give him 2 Dish 500+ since he pays for 2 receivers! :rant:

Upwards of $175 plus me wasting a Saturday doesn't sound too good. What about just calling Dish and having them do it? Any idea how much it would be for parts and installation? Or alternatively making the argument that the 2 receivers were paid for and subscribed when the channels were on 148, any grandfather clauses? Having to pay for the second Dish 500+ doesn't sound very fair to me, new installations ok, but long time customers, not good for business...

 

[DishSubLA]

Answers:

1) Internationals (including Greek) are now at 118.7 (118 informally). Almost all international have completed migration from 148/61.5 and in a matter of weeks (Dish claims), NO internationals at all will be transmitting from the two old wings. In fact there are only a few (I think I counted 10 last week) internationals left at 148.

2) Partially answered in previous post (Dish has not been installing SuperDishes for a few years, although many previously installed SuperDishes have been upgraded with re-pointing kits and are still in use): Dish 500+ can look at 110, 119, and 118.7; Dish 1000 Plus can look at 110, 119, 118.7, and the 129 location where most HD services are located. You will need at least the larger Dish 500+ dish and a special combination LNBF for reasons explained in #3 answer below (You should be able to use just the one special combo LNBF with the Dish 500+ and be good to go if you only want the international channels).

3) VERY IMPORTANT: 118.7 (international and some LIL) is an FSS Ku band satellite, and none of your legacy or DishPro LNBF's are capable of receiving this band. Dish uses a special combination LNBF that receives both 119 DBS and 118.7 FSS as the solution. There are two outputs on that one combo LNBF: one for 119 and the other for 118.7, so each sat does require its own cable feed. Also, because the FSS Ku band (118.7) operates at a lower power than DBS Ku band (61.5, 110, 119, 129, 148), you need a larger Dish than the standard Dish 500 to properly receive sufficient signal strength for the international channels at 118.7. That is why the Dish 500+ is larger than the Dish 500, even though the combo LNBF is looking at both 119 & 118.7.

4) The 3 or so channels of internationals will be coming from ONE bird (118.7), but require only ONE LNBF to receive both 118.7 and 119.

5) You said "Other Location." Are you saying that he has another account at another residence? Is the other location a vacation home, etc? Please explain so that more help can come your way.

Well, in the case of any migration of channels, Dish will replace all necessary equipment, including any STB's, Dishes, LNBF's, switches, cable, EVERYTHING, including all labor FREE of any charge--WITH NO ADDITIONAL COMMITMENT--so that the subscriber will continue to receive all the same services across all STB's on the account as he does at the time of the ordered upgrade. It seems Dish has done this at the first location. If the 2nd "location" was in the same residence as the 1st, then Dish should have run an additional cable to and changed-out his 2nd STB at no cost and taken down the now redundant 2nd Dish, as well, all at no charge. I believe if the 2nd "location" has a separate account, then it qualifies for a FREE upgrade just as the first one did. However, if it is a part-time or vacation home using the same account as the primary residence, then I am almost certain you would have to pay for that upgrade at the 2nd "location."

If you are practicing account stacking (two or more different boxes receiving all services at the same time spanned across two or more residences on the same account), then this is a violation of the terms of the Residential Agreement that was singed at the completion of all installations, and you would certainly have to pay for any upgrades at any other "locations" yourself. And if Dish discovers such account stacking, Dish will shut down your service, immediately, prompting you to call them to rectify the situation. Parts or complete kits for your internationals solution are available from Dish Network, local Dish retailers, on-line stores such as Dish Store, or on Ebay.

If you were to have Dish or a local Dish retailer install the upgrade, it's a boat load of money. Well, to give you an idea, it would probably cost around $200-250. Now, sometimes Dish is willing to provide discount on that, provided you are not doing anything in violation of the Residential Agreement. Or you can try a local retailer to hash out some price that seems reasonable to you.

BTW, the 381 SD STB is really the old 811 HD STB that has been re-marketed as a standard definition STB with the feature of receiving digital OTA. Since all HD on Dish Network is now encoded using MPEG4, the old MPEG2 811 became useless as an HD satellite STB. Dish providing you with the now renamed 381 is a great example of Dish being economical and getting every bit of use from what could have been an obsolete STB, but Dish has found a use for these old boxes. Clever, Charlie.

Personally, (and a few others agree) the PQ at 118.7 is inferior to what it was at 148. This has to do more with compression and available bandwidth at 118.7 that has Dish "squeezing" all those international channels along with some LIL's at 118.7. However, most people like your farther-in-law aren't going to really notice it. Just us picky power users are somewhat disappointed. The PQ is "hazier" or softer or a little fuzzier than it was at 148. Too bad, but I got used to it and enjoy my TV5 and Eurochannel. Good Luck to you, and I hope you find a solution.

 

[dslmoc]

Thanks for all the detailed information. You just hit the nail on the head regarding 118.7 being Ku. Regarding the second receiver or "stacking", he has 2 subscribed receivers. One of them is at his house, the other one at his business. His bill has charges of $32 plus $5 for the second receiver. So what do you call this situation? and can he get the second location upgraded for free? I'm the one that set this up for him about 5 years ago. At that time Dish never made any distinctions regarding where the second receiver was going to be located. I just purchased the receiver with a card and told them I wanted to activate it, they told me it would be $5 per month more. That's the whole story.

Now both receivers are Dish 381's. The first one he got for free, the second one I purchased from ebay with a purple card. I called Dish and they deauth'ed the old second receiver and put the 381 and purple card in its place.

 

[Darrell S]

If Dish finds out his 2 boxes are at two different addresses,they will want him to pay 2 full prices for the programming,instead of 5.00 for the extra box.

 

[DishSubLA]

If Dish finds out his 2 boxes are at two different addresses,they will want him to pay 2 full prices for the programming,instead of 5.00 for the extra box.

Correct! To the OP: This is an example of account stacking.

 

[DishSubLA]

Thanks for all the detailed information. You just hit the nail on the head regarding 118.7 being Ku. Regarding the second receiver or "stacking", he has 2 subscribed receivers. One of them is at his house, the other one at his business. His bill has charges of $32 plus $5 for the second receiver. So what do you call this situation? and can he get the second location upgraded for free? I'm the one that set this up for him about 5 years ago. At that time Dish never made any distinctions regarding where the second receiver was going to be located. I just purchased the receiver with a card and told them I wanted to activate it, they told me it would be $5 per month more. That's the whole story.

Now both receivers are Dish 381's. The first one he got for free, the second one I purchased from ebay with a purple card. I called Dish and they deauth'ed the old second receiver and put the 381 and purple card in its place.

What you have described above as your 2nd location is, indeed, Account Stacking and is in violation of the Residential Agreement signed at all installations. If Dish discovers this, they will shut down your entire account, prompting you to call them and you would have to get a separate accounts for each box. Please pull out the contract that was signed by you or your father-in-law for the specifics.

Having said that, I don't believe you intended to deceive Dish. I really do believe things occurred as you said. It does make sense. However, absolutely no freebies at the 2nd location. It is clear that, unless you want to tip-off Dish as to your improper set-up at 2 locations, you are going to have to pay for everything yourself and not involve Dish at all at the 2nd location. I do not recommend this, as I do not condone Account Stacking, however, I am merely answering your question. To me, Account Stacking is over the line in the list of things that some subscribers do that they should not. For example, there are a lot of "movers" on this board, but to me that does not rise the level of Account Stacking.

Most account stackers have more than 2 boxes involved, so Dish often considers an account with only 2 boxes as not as likely to be involved in account stacking, so that is why most likely this situation went unnoticed by Dish. The more boxes on an account (6 is the maximum), the more likely Dish feels there may be account stacking going on. In fact, I think any account at 5 or 6 boxes, Dish (and Signal Integrity--used to be named Auditing) will require that all boxes be connected to a phone line or Ethernet at all times, or they won't activate the boxes, at least that is what they told me (and I complied) when I activated more than 4 boxes on my account and Dish has said the same thing to a few other people on this board. And Dish WILL call, as they did to me even though all my boxes reported in without any fail, and make us many box users verify that we indeed have all of our boxes at the same address. They usually don't bother to audit those with only 2 boxes on an account.

BTW, Direct TV and all the other pay-TV providers have the same type of Residential Agreement requirement. However Dish and Direct do make allowances for 2nd homes such as cabins or vacation homes. Arrangements are made with Dish where they shut-off the boxes at your 1st home while you watch TV at your 2nd home. Then when you return to your 1st home , they shut down the boxes at the 2nd home or cabin and re-activate the boxes at your 1st home. This is for extended stays like at vacation homes and cabins and is not for situations where one is at the office the first part of the day, then at home in the evenings.

So, as in the movie Blazing Saddles, when the preacher said to the new Sherrif of Rock Ridge after a town-folk shot a bullet through his Holy Bible, "Kid, you're on your own."

 

[n0qcu]

the other one at his business.

That would probably be considered a commercial account and would be charged as such.

 

[DishSubLA]

That would probably be considered a commercial account and would be charged as such.

That's a good point!

 

[dslmoc]

That would probably be considered a commercial account and would be charged as such.

Wow, I learned a lot here, maybe more than I wanted to know.

Anyway, thanks for all the help. I guess I just have to take care of this "on my own" as you say.