FYI - Diplexers adversely affect Moca signal strength

[JM42]

If I diplexed in before the node, but out after the node, like in your 1st example, wouldn't I still have the same issue of interference on the Moca network?

Yes. This (dish->diplexer->node->diplexer->hopper) was my "problem" scenario. Yours is another, but the point being both yours and my problem scenario has a diplexer between node and hopper.

If I diplexed in/out before the node, like in your 2nd example, I'd still have to run two cables to the receiver. The point of diplexing is to avoid that.

Yes you still need two cables to the reciever, but it would at least get the OTA inside the house on one of the Dish feeds. There will be no way around two cables to the Hopper for OTA.

Mine was switch>node>diplex>diplex>Hopper

As stated, any diplexer after the node will definitely not work.

I would like to see if anyone has diplexed in and out before the node to confirm whether or not that works.

 

[TheKrell]

Ahem... My comment about MoCA bandwidth requirements was just plain wrong. I was looking at this attachment and misremembering my broadcast channel frequencies.

Channels in the US still go up through channel 69, the top of which is 806MHz. According to the pic above, the MoCA band starts at 650MHz, so this seriously encroaches on broadcast frequencies. Now you might plausibly get away with this general technique (diplexing), if you had no channels in your area above or near channel 43. But the old diplexers would definitely need redesigning since they cross over at around 900MHz, well above the MoCA band.

My expectation is that Dish will not redesign a new diplexer for a limited number of customers, especially considering it might break in the future with addition of new channels in your area.

 

[joelwnelson]

I didn't even want to try to have OTA and MoCA share the same coax so when the installer came yesterday, I told him I had existing OTA distribution from my antenna to the bedroom (where the Joey is) and den (where the Hopper is) and asked if he could run new coax when he installed the Joey. The antenna now uses the previous 722k home distribution network, minus the diplexers, and the Hopper and Joey are on an entirely separate coaxial network. To watch OTA I just switch inputs on both TVs. If I ever need to record OTA I can still do so using a TV capture device on my computer.

 

[GaryPen]

Yes you still need two cables to the reciever, but it would at least get the OTA inside the house on one of the Dish feeds. There will be no way around two cables to the Hopper for OTA.

My node is mounted next to the switch, at the dish, as I imagine many other installations will be. So, it doesn't help at all in regards to the OTA feed. It will be a full run.

 

[rocket69]

You can diplex after node you just have to have the install to support it and in most cases it's more work then just running another line for CATV/OTA

 

[GaryPen]

You can diplex after node you just have to have the install to support it and in most cases it's more work then just running another line for CATV/OTA

Can you restate that so that it makes sense please? Maybe add some detail or clarification or something?

 

[rocket69]

Cant give all the tricks away but it will work just the same as how you can diplex in a swm install with moca.

All is need is what dish is providing in hardware for hopper system only the diplexer is not allowed as they didnt want to pass those docs as 99% of techs would think you can do it on every install and only can be done on a 1hopper and 1 joey setup (More joeys if you want to toss in a catv amp that is passive and wont amp up past 15db and antinuators might be required or -db tap's)

If you know the specs of a given system you can modify it.

 

[GaryPen]

Can anybody translate for me?

 

[JM42]

My node is mounted next to the switch, at the dish, as I imagine many other installations will be. So, it doesn't help at all in regards to the OTA feed. It will be a full run.

But that was a choice that can be changed once the installers know what they're doing. The tech should have known diplexing like that would not work. If you had working OTA to your TV before before and you don't now, then Dish should come out and fix it.

 

[GaryPen]

But that was a choice that can be changed once the installers know what they're doing. The tech should have known diplexing like that would not work. If you had working OTA to your TV before before and you don't now, then Dish should come out and fix it.

The tech did say that his training indicated it would not work. But, I asked him to try it, and it appeared to work at first. It wasn't until later on that the Moca net stopped working

I just wanted to let the the members know that it definitely doesn't work, even though I had read in other Hopper threads that it might.

 

[rocket69]

The tech's if from in house are limited on what they can do and how they do it. If you need ota or any other 2mhz-1ghz a dedicated line is best if possible. If your prewire home you might have a room next to your hopper location not used that you could dedicate for CATV/OTA

 

[MikeD-C05]

Haven't had the opportunity to try yet but theoretically if you diplexed before the node in the sat 1 or 2 lines you should still be able to still power the terk and only have to run a second lone from the pre-node diplexer. Definitely make sure any open connection is terminated or you will almost definitely receive interference between the ota and moca signals.

Well I can confirm after yesterday , you can NOT do a diplexor of sat and ota before the node. It simply does not work. I had to do another line from my terk 44 from another dish ,next to my eastern arc dish, and run it to under the house and diplex it for ota to a splitter and then to dedicated lines to my living room and bedroom for ota. I also had to use an old sat receiver to power the terk or no vhf at all on my tvs. I now can watch antenna on my tv ,but not on my new hopper and joeys. I hope that soon I can get the new usb ota tuner for the hopper,when it comes out, so I can by stop using the ota input on my tv. I miss being able to watch and record Metv on my sat receiver. But I can watch the few programs I like on the weekends using the tv .

 

[3HaloODST]

I'm pretty sure that this has been discussed months ago that H/J will not work with diplexers.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I'm pretty sure that this has been discussed months ago that H/J will not work with diplexers.

Yes, but no one I know of , ever could confirm that you could diplex BEFORE the node for sat and ota. I just confirmed it DOES NOT work at all that way, when I installed and tried it Saturday.

 

[Miner]

Yes, but no one I know of , ever could confirm that you could diplex BEFORE the node for sat and ota. I just confirmed it DOES NOT work at all that way, when I installed and tried it Saturday.

Interesting. It should work. Unless there is some unpublished frequencies passed between the node and the LNB... Inside the node, it should never work as frequencies with OTA will mix, but probably could be made to work with the right combination of filters.

My renter just had D* installed at the house. The SWM is pretty nice technology. Very compact compared to DPP (and now Hopper), plus it supports 8 tuners. It doesn't support OTA, and hasn't for many years, though.

Miner

 

[MikeD-C05]

Interesting. It should work. Unless there is some unpublished frequencies passed between the node and the LNB... Inside the node, it should never work as frequencies with OTA will mix, but probably could be made to work with the right combination of filters.

My renter just had D* installed at the house. The SWM is pretty nice technology. Very compact compared to DPP (and now Hopper), plus it supports 8 tuners. It doesn't support OTA, and hasn't for many years, though.

Miner

I have a eastern arc dish with a terk 44 clip on antenna<( Yes, I know, everyone thinks the terk sucks, but it has worked for me faithfully for years on two of my accounts). The lnbs are plugged into the antenna switch and from there the sat runs are run to the house. I used to use a diplexer inside the house to split it back into ota and sat. So since I was using the single node for my hopper and joeys, I diplexed the coax outside the house and split it to ota for separate coax runs to the bedroom and living room , and to sat runs to the single node. I had ota in the house but no sat for moca to work. So I bypassed the antenna switch entirely and ran it straight to the node and it worked fine. I used an older sat receiver not in use ,to power the antenna for ota and I had ota to both rooms on the tvs. So I can tell you it will not work trying to diplex the signal on the same run before the node. I'm sure it won't work after the node ,because it has already been talked about in this thread.

 

[TheKrell]

I had ota in the house but no sat for moca to work. So I bypassed the antenna switch entirely and ran it straight to the node and it worked fine... So I can tell you it will not work trying to diplex the signal on the same run before the node.

Aren't you contradicting yourself above? You certainly can't diplex the signal around a DPP44, if that is what you tried to do. But as miner said above, this should work. There is nothing different about the LNB bandstacked signal before the switch, nor anything different about the DPP bandstacked signal after a switch, that would prevent you from diplexing an OTA antenna. It's the same frequencies after all, whether or not there is a node and Hopper further downstream.

 

[rocket69]

Get ready for the wrench. You Can diplex prior to the node. In our office we are back feeding a joey to the stock room prior to the node and did one with ota diplexed prior to node. The ant was non powered and is less then 7 miles from the towers with clear LOS

 

[gregleg]

Since I have a DP44 switch which requires a power inserter, I ended up with two lines going into one room anyway -- one for the power inserter running to the DP44, the other connecting the Hopper to the node. So I just diplexed OTA over the power inserter line, same as pre-Hopper When the OTA module comes out I'll HAVE to put it on that Hopper instead of the preferred basement location, but no big deal there (especially if the sharing is available by then)

 

[3HaloODST]

Yes, but no one I know of , ever could confirm that you could diplex BEFORE the node for sat and ota. I just confirmed it DOES NOT work at all that way, when I installed and tried it Saturday.

Oh, didn't realize you bumped an old post. I guess I was right about it being discussed months ago lol. Thought OP was just now posting this thread as if it were news.