FTA Newbie needing to get the most our of old worldtv dish

[e21pilot]

I want to set up an FTA system but I have one big constraint -- the landlord will not allow any new dish installations on the roof nor allow anyone on the roof for that matter. Fortunately someone in the past had a 35" x 26" "world tv" fixed dish installed on the south facing portion of the roof above my unit. I even found some RG6 coiled up in the attic that was probably used to connect to the dish in the past.

After visiting the FTAList website, I decided I would like to watch channels on the following satellites:

AMC 3, 9 & 21;
Galaxy 3C & 19;
SES 1

The questions I have are:

1) Is there some way I could mount multiple LNBs on this fixed dish to receive all the Ku satellites above?
2) Would all the LNBs feed into the single RG6 that has already been run?
3) Would a new style GeoSatPro MicroHD receiver be able to handle all these feeds or would I need special equipment?

ps. I realize I will need to get onto the roof to modify the dish and aim it in order to make all this work. I have to sneak up there at night when the landlord is not around! Getting my FTA system working would be worth the risk.

Thanks

 

[SatelliteAV]

The dish is probably already aimed at 97w, so why not connect up to a FTA receiver and first make sure everything is working before you climb on the roof to reaim. Yes, the microHD would handle the switches and multiple LNBFs for a multi-satellite system.

You will find that dish is undersized for some channels, but should work fine for 80% of the signals on the satellites that you listed. This dish can be modified to mount several LNBFs to cover multiple satellites in a 15+ degrees portion of the arc with acceptable signal loss. The minimum satellite spacing for unmodified LNBFs like the GEOSATpro SL2 (smallest LNBF available) on this dish is about 3 degrees. That would rule out the 95/97 or the 97/99 combos.

While it might be easy to sneak up on the roof and quickly reaim for a single satellite, it will be nearly impossible to install a mult-LNBF bracket, aim, optimize and install switches without being noticed!

You might be better off setting up a motorized dish and preprogramming all satellites at a nearby friends home. Use a perfectly plumbed temporary post then sneak up on the roof, remove the current dish, make sure the current pole is secure and plumb then drop in place the motor/dish combo, and adjust for optimal signal. You then can cover the entire arc and the landlord might not even notice as long as the replacement isn't shiny and new looking!

 

[northgeorgia]

It sounds like his main concern is liability from tenants crawling around on the roof. There could be another location in the property where dishes would be allowed.

 

[Anole]

Is your unit south-facing?
How 'bout a dish on your balcony? Or looking out your window?

I would hook to the existing coax and see what I could get.

As for any shenanigans involving modifying or replacing the dish up there, I'm not interested in helping.
The possible repercussions to you are considerable.
Hate to see you thrown out on the street for Xmas.

 

[primestar31]

Of course NONE of us (including Brian above) condone you sneaking up on a roof that a landlord has specifically told you to stay off of! We also disclaim any legal liability should you fall, or drop something causing somebody else to be hurt when it lands on them.

If you do it, don't tell us. Please don't ask for people to post possibly illegal things that the courts will legally make this website liable for...

I'm sorry that I have to say these things, versus Scot himself, as the rest of us should know better than to advise anybody to do so against your landlords expressed will saying you can NOT!...

 

[SatelliteAV]

Well said, Primestar31. Thank you for covering my "in hind sight" duh moment!

 

[danristheman]

Also look over the OTARD rules first then go from their. Talk to the landlord about other options then the roof maybe they will work with you first what our options will be. Tell them about the non penetrating roof mount at you can use on a balcony or patio. I live in apartment as well I have had the experience of dealing with management.

Dan Rose

 

[e21pilot]

Not to worry guys, the roof is flat leading up to the dish and there is a roof hatch in the stairwell to get up there.

Only south facing window I have is in the bedroom which is small enough that I didn't want to put the dish inside.

I think I might go with the suggestion of pulling the dish down and getting it set up correctly somewhere else and then adding it back with some minor tuning.

Because of the small size of the dish, I'm coming to the conclusion that I would be better off with a single high quality LNB and motor on the back to move the dish between the satellites. I believe the receiver I have will control the motor and the dish is small enough that the receiver would send the power over the single coax line I have. Any suggestions on a top quality LNB?

This would be a good setup but I notice a lot of people opt for the fixed dish and multiple LNBs. Just wondering why the dish alignment motor is not so popular with people?

 

[olliec420]

Of course NONE of us (including Brian above) condone you sneaking up on a roof that a landlord has specifically told you to stay off of! We also disclaim any legal liability should you fall, or drop something causing somebody else to be hurt when it lands on them.

If you do it, don't tell us. Please don't ask for people to post possibly illegal things that the courts will legally make this website liable for...

I'm sorry that I have to say these things, versus Scot himself, as the rest of us should know better than to advise anybody to do so against your landlords expressed will saying you can NOT!...

Certainly no responsible court in the us could find an informational website such as this liable for someone else's decision to disobey just for telling them how to do something to a dish (hacking d* or dish I understand). I do IT at a semi large firm here I'm gonna ask about that next time I'm shooting the bull with one of the lawyers.

Scott also works for/with lawyers, no?

 

[primestar31]

Certainly no responsible court in the us could find an informational website such as this liable for someone else's decision to disobey just for telling them how to do something to a dish (hacking d* or dish I understand). I do IT at a semi large firm here I'm gonna ask about that next time I'm shooting the bull with one of the lawyers.

Scott also works for/with lawyers, no?

You are wrong about this. I know for a fact that courts have and do check litigants online postings in certain cases, and DO hold website owners responsible from time to time, especially when it's seen as an "expert" giving actionable advice to a novice regarding possible illegal acts.

In this case, say the OP took Brian's advice, and fell 20 feet off the roof and broke his back. The landlord finds out when OP tries to sue or OP's hospital insurance says they won't pay, get it from the Landlords insurance. It goes to court, the judge has the site checked and finds the posting that in fact DID tell the OP how to do the illegal act (illegal because his landlord said he could NOT go on the roof) and climb on the roof to do it.

Scott now has to defend that, and he could lose.

 

[e21pilot]

Jeeeez, this legal stuff is too much and doesn't belong in this thread. Let it be clear that the OP claims full responsibility for his actions and in no way holds anyone who posts or posted on this thread responsible for any outcome that results.
That said, the OP appreciates the technical inputs received thus far and would really like comments on the following:
1) Any suggestions on a top quality LNB for FTA?

2) This would be a good setup but I notice a lot of people opt for the fixed dish and multiple LNBs. Just wondering why the dish alignment motor is not so popular with people?
Thanks

 

[olliec420]

You are wrong about this. I know for a fact that courts have and do check litigants online postings in certain cases, and DO hold website owners responsible from time to time, especially when it's seen as an "expert" giving actionable advice to a novice regarding possible illegal acts.

In this case, say the OP took Brian's advice, and fell 20 feet off the roof and broke his back. The landlord finds out when OP tries to sue or OP's hospital insurance says they won't pay, get it from the Landlords insurance. It goes to court, the judge has the site checked and finds the posting that in fact DID tell the OP how to do the illegal act (illegal because his landlord said he could NOT go on the roof) and climb on the roof to do it.

Scott now has to defend that, and he could lose.

That's insane. I hate lawyers.

 

[SatelliteAV]

I think we all can agree that we don't condone anything Illegal.... Back on subject.

Don't usually directly promote our products as a solution, but the GEOSATpro SL1PLL is one of the best KU-band LNBFs and the only LNBF offering a lifetime warranty against defect and UV failure.

Most hobbyist prefer the motor, but many installers only install fixed dishes. Also, motorized dishes can be quite intimidating for a newbie or the casual viewer.

 

[Anole]

IMO:

1. The existing LNB & feedhorn are matched to the elliptical dish shape.
Any secondary LNBFs you add, will operate at reduced efficiency on an elliptical dish.

2. A successsful motor setup is built on a lot of trial and experience.

3. A motor may make noise or generate vibration in the apartment below.

4. The first step is to use the World Dish on a single satellite, preferably the one it is already aimed at (97?).

 

[AcWxRadar]

1. The existing LNB & feedhorn are matched to the elliptical dish shape.
Any secondary LNBFs you add, will operate at reduced efficiency on an elliptical dish.

2. A successsful motor setup is built on a lot of trial and experience.

3. A motor may make noise or generate vibration in the apartment below.

4. The first step is to use the World Dish on a single satellite, preferably the one it is already aimed at (97?).

I am with Anole here, especially regarding item #4. As I am also betting that it is aimed at 97°W already. If the peripheral equipment is still in working order and the dish is still well aligned and the cable is still connected all the way, then all you have to think about is the receiver you want to use and getting to learn it.

This is an excellent place to start. If everything is operational, you can take the time to learn more about your receiver and the FTA hobby in general. While you are doing that, you can work on the good graces of your landlord to gain their permission to access the roof for your satellite purposes. If you are able to prove to him/her that you are responsible about it all, they may give you the consent to access the roof. From your description, it doesn't sound like a dangerous environment. I'd bet the landlord just wants to ensure that no one is up there having a party or getting into mischief. But, just play it safe until you have their official Okee Dokee, in writing if need be. Depending upon the person, you might offer to help the landlord out with some projects or general repairs around the building. If they ask you if you want to be paid, tell them yes, then barter for the payment as access to the roof. Maybe offer to be the "roof monitor" and keep an eye on all other tenants activity up there and ensure that no one is using the roof for unapproved activities. All they can do is say no and then you are just back to square number one.

RADAR

 

[e21pilot]

There's a chance that the dish is aimed correctly but only if the roofing crew this summer didn't bump into it.

At the very least I will have to pull the old RG6 through the weatherhead and connect it back up to the dish. Then I can see if the microHD receiver detects any signals.

The landlord really doesn't want any new wires/poles/antennas etc. on the roof because they have had leak problems in the past and don't want to deal with any more problems now that the roof is fixed. These problems were more related to a bad roof design rather than antenna installs etc. but that is the landlords position -- no exceptions.

Is it true the existing LNB would be a better match to the elliptical dish than say the GEOSATpro SL1PLL mentioned above? Since the dish is small, I just wanted to match it up with a top notch LNB so I could so I have the best chance of pulling in weak signals.

Also, a few dish retailers have told me I won't pick up much with my small dish but I'm wondering if my California location means I'll receive stronger signals than I would if I were in Minnesota for instance? Hence if I get the most out of my dish/LNB pairing, I may just get all the signals from the satellites I can point to.