FTA Motors with Azimuth *and* Elevation Control?
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Is this for a custom tracking requirement? Otherwise there are better ways to motorize a FTA dish.
There have been several dual axis / dual motor Elevation/Azimuth mounts throughout the years for the home installs, but I don't know of any at this time. In addition to the expensive two channel controllers, the install also must include a feed servo motor and controller to adjust the polarity skew for each satellite.
Most installs use a HH polar mount type motor. Much simpler to install, position and receivers control using standard DiSEqC 1.2 protocol that is in almost every receiver sold.
There have been several dual axis / dual motor Elevation/Azimuth mounts throughout the years for the home installs, but I don't know of any at this time. In addition to the expensive two channel controllers, the install also must include a feed servo motor and controller to adjust the polarity skew for each satellite.
Most installs use a HH polar mount type motor. Much simpler to install, position and receivers control using standard DiSEqC 1.2 protocol that is in almost every receiver sold.
By custom, do you mean non-DiSEqC? Or do you mean a custom application, like continuous auto-acquire onboard a ship or vehicle. This would be for stationary use of a DTH application. We don't necessarily need DiSEqC support, though it would be preferred. I only ask because I was recently in Nepal working on a UNICEF technology demonstration and pointing was such a bear this time around--mostly due to a broken LNB-holder.
The only dishes I have seen with those capabilities were in the $80,000 + range. Not for home use I'm sure.
For stationary installs, most of us use USALS (a calculating aiming calculation available with most receivers). The STB instructs the motor to move to the correct azimuth based on the install longitude/latitude.
Nothing will overcome a broken LNBF clamp, incorrect skew or non-plumb post. Honestly, a motorized install is not for a first-time installer.
Once the post is plumb and the hardware is correctly assembled, most competent installers with motorized experience can't track the arc in less than an hour.
The only way to simplify a motorized install is probably a GPS based dish platform with auto search. As Magic Static suggests, these are not inexpensive.
Nothing will overcome a broken LNBF clamp, incorrect skew or non-plumb post. Honestly, a motorized install is not for a first-time installer.
Once the post is plumb and the hardware is correctly assembled, most competent installers with motorized experience can't track the arc in less than an hour.
The only way to simplify a motorized install is probably a GPS based dish platform with auto search. As Magic Static suggests, these are not inexpensive.
Brian can't someone use 2 ku band motors one for left to right one up and down for inclined satellites?
The plumb and stability issues are exactly what we are seeing as impediments to proper deployments in the field--not to mention the requirement of a trained technician. We're currently kicking around some ideas of repurposing hardware and software from computerized telescopes. I would rather not build yet another thing, but there is a lot of prior open source art in this area.
Ku HH motors are polar mount type and automatically track an arc based on the motor elevation setting and the dish elevation (declination) setting. Don't think that two HH motors could be coordinated to track the arc.
As long as the dish is assembled correctly, pole is plumb / level, the motor elevation angle is set to correct position and the dish elevation angle is correctly set, the dish will move between the USALS calculated positions.
As long as the dish is assembled correctly, pole is plumb / level, the motor elevation angle is set to correct position and the dish elevation angle is correctly set, the dish will move between the USALS calculated positions.
I would never consider installing your service with motorized dishes at a customer's home. Customer support nightmare and doubt there are enough skilled technicians to successfully install or service.
Even a single fixed dish is difficult to support for install and continued service.
Even a single fixed dish is difficult to support for install and continued service.
Ham radio operators have used two rotors, one stacked atop the other. The bottom rotor turns the antenna left to right, the top one rotates the antenna up and down. This was used with a Yagi antenna though, not a dish. A Ku band dish would place quite a bit of strain on this type of setup.
Outernet, when you say stability and plumb issues are what you are encountering in the field, are you using a level to check if the pole is straight? As for stability, the pole should be sunk into the ground deep enough to prevent any movement and twist. A spike at the bottom of the pole helps to prevent twist.
An alternative is to use a non-penetrating roof mount weighted down with bricks, stones, etc. Then there are mounts especially for attaching to buildings. All require to be plumb though.
This is probably one of the most important steps in the installation of a satellite dish, getting the pole/mount plumb and stable. Without that basic building block you'll have headaches and frustration.
Outernet, when you say stability and plumb issues are what you are encountering in the field, are you using a level to check if the pole is straight? As for stability, the pole should be sunk into the ground deep enough to prevent any movement and twist. A spike at the bottom of the pole helps to prevent twist.
An alternative is to use a non-penetrating roof mount weighted down with bricks, stones, etc. Then there are mounts especially for attaching to buildings. All require to be plumb though.
This is probably one of the most important steps in the installation of a satellite dish, getting the pole/mount plumb and stable. Without that basic building block you'll have headaches and frustration.
A PROPERLY installed satellite dish should NEVER have stability and plumb issues, all other things being equal.
Baring of course unforeseen things such as earthquakes, tornadoes, and old ladies on lawnmowers, lol.
Baring of course unforeseen things such as earthquakes, tornadoes, and old ladies on lawnmowers, lol.
Need to come up with some sort of simple mechanical auto-leveling mount, like the levelers on some washing machines. Slap it onto a pole, push up on it and let it fall back down, level. I'm sure if someone thought on it enough it could be done.
May try it myself, If I can somehow manage to find some time for it!
May try it myself, If I can somehow manage to find some time for it!
It would be nice if they made a self-aiming dish for FTA like this wouldn't it?
http://www.winegard.com/carryout/carryout-tech-specs
http://www.winegard.com/carryout/carryout-tech-specs
You mean like this?
http://www.winegard.com/carryout-shaw-direct
I have installed self-aiming King Control domes and satellite internet mobile dishes for FTA use. These dish systems are perfect for FTA because the skew is servo controlled and not fixed.
Outernet, what conditions are causing out of plumb pole installations? You mentioned lack expertise in installation, but are there other conditions such as lack of proper hardware (e.g.metal poles/mounts, screws, bolts), poor soil conditions, weather conditions, possible vandalism? Are the dishes installed at ground level or above ground, e.g. on a building or tower?
For leveling a pole, a cheap post-leveling device (see pic) is all that is needed.
One thing I have found is that for single satellite stationary setups, a mount does not have to be perfectly plumb, but it is a must for motorized setups. And, a pole has no movable parts like other types of mounting brackets which have bolts, screws, etc., which can loosen over time.
As for self-aiming control, the Sathero 500 meter has a built-in GPS which calculates the azimuth, elevation and skew based on your coordinates, so it would just be a matter of tying in that calculation with USALS and a Set Top Box to come up with an auto control dish. A good engineering project.
Attached is a pic of two dishes, the one to the right is pole mounted with a motor, the left is a stationary dish mounted on a pallet weighted down with two concrete blocks. This simple pallet mount works very well for me.
The pole mounted dish with motor interestingly does not have any concrete base to anchor it as our soil has lots of clay, and has been in use for over 3 years with no shifting whatsoever.
If possible, send us a picture of a typical installation with problems. A picture is worth a thousand words.
Your goal to bring the Internet to the masses is truly a noble cause, wish you the best and will help out as much as possible.
For leveling a pole, a cheap post-leveling device (see pic) is all that is needed.
One thing I have found is that for single satellite stationary setups, a mount does not have to be perfectly plumb, but it is a must for motorized setups. And, a pole has no movable parts like other types of mounting brackets which have bolts, screws, etc., which can loosen over time.
As for self-aiming control, the Sathero 500 meter has a built-in GPS which calculates the azimuth, elevation and skew based on your coordinates, so it would just be a matter of tying in that calculation with USALS and a Set Top Box to come up with an auto control dish. A good engineering project.
Attached is a pic of two dishes, the one to the right is pole mounted with a motor, the left is a stationary dish mounted on a pallet weighted down with two concrete blocks. This simple pallet mount works very well for me.
The pole mounted dish with motor interestingly does not have any concrete base to anchor it as our soil has lots of clay, and has been in use for over 3 years with no shifting whatsoever.
If possible, send us a picture of a typical installation with problems. A picture is worth a thousand words.
Your goal to bring the Internet to the masses is truly a noble cause, wish you the best and will help out as much as possible.
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I see the Outernet now has a radio channel on 113W Ku.
Nope, a broken LNB mount is as useful as a refrigerator is to an Eskimo.
Nope, a broken LNB mount is as useful as a refrigerator is to an Eskimo.
That is the Outernet data stream. Not sure if it is the same data feed as is streaming on 97w? Anyone have their Pi app running?
While I sent money for a Lantern and support their idea, I have always wondered - how the down-link would be received. It seems to me that the idea of using FTA satellites was naive. The aiming is far more critical then a subscription satellite (like Dish or Direct) in that the transmitted power is but 1/10 as much. Titanium is correct "Even a single fixed dish is difficult to support for install and continued service". A dish such as King Control has would be the best answer ($1,350 MSRP) - IF it was large enough to receive the weak signal.
Bob
Bob
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