FTA and Dish (legal) on same dish?

[RedSavina]

I've noticed there is some FTA stuff on the Echostar satellites. I know that an FTA setup can legally receive these unencrypted channels. What I don't know is:

"Can a Dish receiver and an FTA receiver use the same dish?"

In my case, I have dishes pointed to 110/119 and 61.5. I am only using one cable to feed my 622. I would like to experiment with using the second cable to feed an FTA receiver. Aside from the need to really have a larger dish for the FTA signal, will this work (the channels I am looking at are circular)?

I sent a PM on this to someone a few weeks ago, but have not heard back. I finally decided to rewrite my post for the public forum. Your input is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Red

 

[SatelliteAV]

You can legally receive the unencrypted channels on an FTA receiver from a dish that is shared with a subscribed Dish Network receiver.

The LNBF or switch that is feeding your subscribed Dish Network receiver must be capable of supporting a 2nd receiver (I.E. dual output LNBF).

 

[kstuart]

I would guess that you have a DishProPlus Twin.

Since this also supports "legacy" Dish Network receivers, then I would guess that a single cable from the second output into an FTA receiver will get you the FTA channels.

However, the only FTA channel that will not also be on all Dish Network receivers is GolTV (which requires an AT250 subscription).

So, if GolTV is your only reason to get AT250, then it might be more cost effective to just get a cheap used FTA receiver on ebay instead and use your second cable.

Otherwise, if you are already a Dish Network subscriber, there is not much point to connecting your FTA receiver to 110 or 119 (I don't).

For Ku-band channels (what people usually mean by "FTA"), you will need a separate 30-39 inch dish (and FTA receiver) that you point to locations like 97W or 102.3 W.

PS You should also be sure to read the thread at:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=34131

 

[RedSavina]

Thanks!

I know of the "slim" pickings up there on those sats and also the need for a larger dish. Even so, I appreciate the reminder.

My situation is a little challenging regarding FTA: I move every two years or so and moving the gear that often would certainly add to wear and tear. I've been wanting to play a bit, though, so figured adding a receiver to my existing setup would be minimal in terms of hassle and expense (and, admittedly, programming). Next up would be to add a 1m dish and set it's "home" to another Dish location and motorize it for the FTA use. I realize this is a convoluted approach, but in addition to the reasons noted above I would like to keep the missus from being too unhappy with my gadget hobbies!

 

[mastermesh]

invacom quad lnb on a motorized dish that's big enough to pick up ku would be the way to go. That way the lnb can pick up both normal ku signals as well as the dish network dvb signals. Just put a diseqc switch on them to combine the signals. Also, you may have to do some extra work to get the dish network and fta receiver to work together on getting the motor moving... I'm guessing dish network boxes won't move motor, so you'd have to hook it dish->fta receiver->dish network box, and then dish network would only see the polarity the fta receiver was on... unless you didn't use a switch, and just hook it up with dish->fta receiver on the ku side, or maybe dish->switch->fta receiver to get both ku and the few free dvb channels in to the fta receiver, and then have a whole separate line from the dish->dish network box on the other c side of the invacom quad, so that way, both boxes could work free of one another, and polarity wouldn't matter to the dish network box since it's seeing the lnb signals itself... but... if you go that way, the fta receiver would have to go to the motor and control it, so it'd really be dish's lnb on c and l lnbs->switch->motor->fta box on the fta side, and dish's extra c port on lnb->dishnetwork box on the other... I have a setup sort of like that with my computer's dvb world box so that the computer can see both sides of the world and the fta box's polarity doesn't matter to it (I use the dvb world box as a timed dvd recorder on g10, so I keep the dish set on g10 most of the time, and have it set up like that so the dvb world box can see all the channels and record whichever polarity it needs to regardless of what the fta box is set on)

 

[Tron]

You would combine one C and one L output from the Quad into a DiSEqC switch and run that to the FTA receiver. Then you would run a totally separate line from the other C output on the Quad to the Dish receiver.

Cons: Dish receiver would only work when dish was aimed at 110 or 119, and then only on one satellite at a time. Best to keep FTA and Dish sub separate.

 

[SatelliteAV]

When the QPH was rescued from an abandoned R/D project for a major satellite service provider and redesigned for introduction to the FTA market in North America, it was purposefully introduced with the 4 outputs to support Dish Network, DirecTV switches and FSS FTA usage with one dish and one LNB.

Never in our imagination did we think the QPH would become as widely accepted and desired in such a short time with the hobbyists as it has become!

The down side to having the Dish Network receiver and an FTA receiver share a QPH on a motorized dish is that the Dish Network receiver will be a bit confused and need to reorient itself and aquire the available channels when aimed at a valid satellite. The Dish Network receiver will switch test (automatic) for each DN satellite location and will display the subscribed channels.

For you, a motorized Winegard DS2076 (31") dish and a QPH might be a great option with a smaller footprint, yet access to the majority of FSS FTA channels.

 

[Anole]

adding up the merits

I have dishes pointed to 110/119 and 61.5.
I am only using one cable to feed my 622.
I would like to experiment with using the second cable to feed an FTA receiver.
...
Next up would be to add a 1m dish and set it's "home" to another Dish location and motorize it for the FTA use.
I realize this is a convoluted approach, but in addition to the reasons noted above I would like to keep the missus from being too unhappy with my gadget hobbies!

Dish (brand) receivers are much happier if you don't mess with their antenna connections and signals.
Your family will be much happier if the service (Dish) you pay for, works 100% , and all the time.
Fiddling around repointing any of the antenna with a motor will just interfere with the normal operation.

At best, you might think replacing the 61º dish with an FTA dish might work.
The incompatability between LNBs would make it unworkable for the 622, I believe.
So, that leaves you with three dishes: 110/119, 61, and FTA.
Keep the FTA equipment separate from the Dish hardware, and they'll all work a lot better.

I would suggest you drop back from 40" on the FTA to 30" if you have a space problem.
The 1m dish is expensive to buy/ship/motorize....
...and unwieldily to install/mount/motorize (even if it is an otherwise good idea).

 

[Tron]

One benefit of using the larger Ku dish as a secondary dish for your Dish service is that you'd practically eliminate rain fade. Might work well as a secondary dish for those times when you REALLY need to see a program but the weather is not cooperating

 

[RedSavina]

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

FWIW, I found the following points to be especially helpful:

One benefit of using the larger Ku dish as a secondary dish for your Dish service is that you'd practically eliminate rain fade. Might work well as a secondary dish for those times when you REALLY need to see a program but the weather is not cooperating

I would suggest you drop back from 40" on the FTA to 30" if you have a space problem.
The 1m dish is expensive to buy/ship/motorize....
...and unwieldily to install/mount/motorize (even if it is an otherwise good idea).

For you, a motorized Winegard DS2076 (31") dish and a QPH might be a great option with a smaller footprint, yet access to the majority of FSS FTA channels.

Based on the above input my plan is to go with an 80 or 90 cm dish, run a separate cable for the FTA, and set things up so that I can switch to the larger dish in the case of Rain Fade.

I keep asking questions and keep learning. I appreciate all who have helped out. I'll keep working towards getting my own gear for this hobby (a contest win would speed things up! )

Cheers,
Red