Frustrated with the AM-21 design

[badtlc]

Again, no, that is not what I am talking about. You aren't even reading what I'm saying. Here is the example....

Enter zipcode AABBB, Directv has database entries for 9 channels in this zipcode 3.1, 3.2, 10.1, 21.1, 21.2, 27.1, 33.1, 33.2.

Now remove the frequencies from 2 or three channels like the 3.1, 3.2 and 10.1 so the AM21 never sees the OTA signals for those channels during setup. After setup, only the guide info for 21.1, 21.2, 27.1, 33.1, and 33.2 is downloaded. Why would it only do the channels it sees if it didn't scan the OTA signals first to see which channels it was getting? If it did what you are saying it would load all channel info even if it wasn't seeing the OTA signal.

After restoring the missing channels signals to the coax so the am21 sees all channels, re-running setup then produces a full guide with the receiver downloading all channel info for known channels stored by D*. The missing channels are only restored after re-running setup.

And another example, if I enter a secondary market zipcode but I don't turn the antenna so those channels can be seen, the AM21 won't load any of those channels. Yet, if I turn the antenna, add the secondary zipcode again, it pulls down all the channel info properly AFTER it can see the OTA signal.

 

[Mr Tony]

Again, no, that is not what I am talking about. You aren't even reading what I'm saying.

I'm reading it perfect. You're wrong and dont want to admit it. But for fun I'll play along

Enter zipcode AABBB, Directv has database entries for 9 channels in this zipcode 3.1, 3.2, 10.1, 21.1, 21.2, 27.1, 33.1, 33.2.

Now remove the frequencies from 2 or three channels like the 3.1, 3.2 and 10.1 so the AM21 never sees the OTA signals for those channels during setup. After setup, only the guide info for 21.1, 21.2, 27.1, 33.1, and 33.2 is downloaded. Why would it only do the channels it sees if it didn't scan the OTA signals first to see which channels it was getting?

the problem is it DOESNT scan. D* has a list of channels loaded into a database for each DMA. So if I enter zip 55402 it loads ALL the Minneapolis DMA stations. If I enter 56401 which is still in the Minneapolis DMA but is 130 miles from the towers in Minneapolis it will scan the same list of channels above yet the only ones you can pick up are 12-1 & 22-1 through 22-6

If it did what you are saying it would load all channel info even if it wasn't seeing the OTA signal.

BINGO. We have a winner. If you would read what I wrote above when I helped bacchus with the AM21 I plugged in his local market in Maine. It downloaded about 24 hours of guide info right away (as it does when you reboot the receiver) so I could see what "interesting" shows were on his locals. If I tuned to it I got nothing (obviously). I've done this also for the old area I use to live in (which the locals are too far away OTA) yet the guide info loaded for immediatelly 24 hours or so. It doesnt matter if you can get the stations or not. It all goes by what zip you plug in and the database D* has. If it "scans" as you say then it should show these channels in the list
-5 low powered TBN mux
-5 low powered EWTN mux
-The Country Network which is the 3rd subchannel on the CW station. TheCoolTv which is the 2nd subchannel shows up. D* has not added it yet.

Which again it doesn't because its not in the database.

After restoring the missing channels signals to the coax so the am21 sees all channels, re-running setup then produces a full guide with the receiver downloading all channel info for known channels stored by D*. The missing channels are only restored after re-running setup.

nope. see above

And another example, if I enter a secondary market zipcode but I don't turn the antenna so those channels can be seen, the AM21 won't load any of those channels. Yet, if I turn the antenna, add the secondary zipcode again, it pulls down all the channel info properly AFTER it can see the OTA signal.

**sigh** I wish you would have read what a couple of us have written. I have a secondary market that I have logged in and it shows the guide info just fine even if the signal isnt the best. It downloads 24 hours or so at startup then overnight finishes the 14 day guide. I'd love to prove you wrong right now but the DVR with the AM21 hooked up is recording so I can't redo the setup. Maybe later

 

[Mr Tony]

Now remove the frequencies from 2 or three channels like the 3.1, 3.2 and 10.1 so the AM21 never sees the OTA signals for those channels during setup. After setup, only the guide info for 21.1, 21.2, 27.1, 33.1, and 33.2 is downloaded

if you remove those channels from the setup (in the antenna setup option) they wont show the guide because those channels arent even an option in any list (favoprites, all subs)....basically removing them from the list you are saying "I dont get these channels so dont show in a list" ....but if you leave them in there they will show guide info even if you cannot pick them up OTA

 

[Mr Tony]

If it did what you are saying it would load all channel info even if it wasn't seeing the OTA signal.

here is the proof. I went in and loaded 2 "bogus" (ie: no way I'd pick them up OTA) zip codes and let the guide download. It downloaded 24 hours right away but the rest said" TBA" which is known that it will load the rest of the guide tonight.

Pics are the proof. The 2 markets I plugged in are 59330 (Glendive, MT) and 55806 (Duluth, MN)

1st 2 pics are the "current" guide. In the 1st pic 2, 4 and 5 are my locals (Minneapolis) via D*
3rd pic is 12 hours from now
4th and 5th pic is 24 hours from now. Heck my locals from D* havent even gone out that far yet.

 

[Mr Tony]

Also learned something while trying different primary/secondary markets.

If I plug in my zip for primary and the neighboring market for secondary it shows the channels what I have posted above (the list of all the stations in the DMA) and my secondary shows right (just 2 stations) but if I flip flop them Minneapolis only shows about 3/4 of the stations in Minneapolis
2
4
5
9
11
29
41

does not show 23 or 45 for some odd reason (all the stations in Minneapolis are in the same Telefarm)

 

[twiseguy]

So how do we go about getting DTV to get off their ars and update their database? I am in Cleveland DMA, but used Dallas DMA as the secondary market so I could get 8.2 in Cleveland (AntennaTV). This doesn`t seem to be a terribly challenging job for DTV, so I guess they just don`t want to. I bet if I lived in N.Y., L.A., the database is up to date.

 

[dod1450]

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and the database is not match the TV OTA channels listing. AM21 is becoming more and more a piece of junk. It is not supported with a HD23 tuner.

So how do we go about getting DTV to get off their ars and update their database? I am in Cleveland DMA, but used Dallas DMA as the secondary market so I could get 8.2 in Cleveland (AntennaTV). This doesn`t seem to be a terribly challenging job for DTV, so I guess they just don`t want to. I bet if I lived in N.Y., L.A., the database is up to date.

 

[gcd0865]

I'm also frustrated with the AM21's design. I get stations from 4 different DMAs (and sometimes a 5th at night) with an antenna on a rotor, so with the design limit of two DMAs (zip codes), I can't see anywhere near all of them with my DirecTV equipment. Wondering why they didn't either allow up to 5 zip codes to be entered into the AM21 (maybe not enough memory to hold that much guide information?) or alternatively, allow all stations within a selectable mileage range from your zip code (say 50/100/150/200 miles) to be listed with the ability for the user to then just go down the list and select the stations that they actually receive with their antenna (even if the hardware/memory size limited the total number of stations you could have in your listing).

Also, if DirecTV doesn't happen to provide all of your local channels in HD, you have to use one of your AM21's two zip codes for your local DMA, further limiting you to only one additional DMA. I end up switching inputs to the tv tuner all the time as well (and can't record any of those channels or see the on-screen guide listings for them either).

Despite my previous submissions to Tribune's/Zap2It.com's database, there are a few low-powered local digital stations that still don't show up in the on-screen channel guide (even if no programming information could actually be provided in the guide, it would be better to at least be able to receive those additional channels). When the nearby Canadian stations (I get 6 of them via antenna) go digital in August, I wonder if we'll be able to get those stations at all either by satellite or at least via antenna with our AM21s. I already know several people in my area who would never get DirecTV as long as CBC's Hockey Night in Canada isn't available (either by satellite or antenna), since all local cable providers have it in their channel lineups.

Couldn't DirecTV simply correct these deficiencies in the AM21s by a firmware update adding more of these capabilities? The general concept of integrating antenna channels in the same on-screen guide (and therefore making them all recordable by the DVR just like the satellite-provided channels) is actually a pretty clever advantage for DirecTV over cable, but they needlessly limited the capabilities by their chosen design. Wonder if they read these forums and whether they know about this or not...

 

[bebop]

What's the best option for OTA:

1) AM21
2) Use my TV and change inputs whenever I want OTA
3) TV-Tuner though my computer and somehow broadcast it through my HR24 to my TV
4) Something else I don't know about yet


I'm used to the E* OTA on their ViP722 model and quite like it. I just realized that the HR-24 I'm getting won't have OTA with it, so I'd like to see what the best options are.

 

[Mr Tony]

I would say a AM21 if you do lots of OTA recording....or if your locals arent in HD.

IIRC you're in Boise right? If so maybe I can punch in a Boise zip to my AM21 and see what channels log in. Note the AM21 normally doesnt log low powered stations in the list

 

[Mr Tony]

bebop
I plugged a Boise zip into the AM21 and it gave me these channels
2-1 & 2
4-1 through 4
6-1 & 2
7-1 through 7-3 and a 7-7
9-1 & 2
12-1 & 2
39-1 through 3

 

[bebop]

(Don't know where my first reply went, likely into the vast emptiness of the ethernet. Oh well, here goes again)

Iceberg,

Thanks for the info, the OTA channels look right for my area. Sounds like if I record on OTA it just uses one of the two recording slots available, and hopefully I'll be able to view it on another DVR with MRV setup I'll have after my install in a couple weeks. Any word if D* offers any promotion if ordering the AM21 with the original install or if I'll just need to pay $55 later (or add that to my order before the installer comes)?

Again - you guys are a great resource. Thanks for all your input. I don't know if the grass is greener on the other side, but the picture being painted sure looks green!

 

[Mr Tony]

Thanks for the info, the OTA channels look right for my area.

I dont know about the 7-7 thing. Maybe just a mapping screwup. Here in Minneapolis we have the same thing. One channel logs as 2-3 (which it should) and 23-7 (23 is its RF channel)

Any word if D* offers any promotion if ordering the AM21 with the original install or if I'll just need to pay $55 later (or add that to my order before the installer comes)?

I dont know. You can check with D* (doesnt hurt to ask). If you get it after the install its very easy to hook up. Unplug the power cord from the receiver and plug it into the AM21. Hook the USB cable from the AM21 to the receiver. Plug the jumper power cord from the AM21 to the receiver.
Receiver boots up and should ask you after it goes through all the reboot stuff if you want to set up OTA. Plug in zip and OK. If no secondary market near you say done and it downloads the guide.

Again - you guys are a great resource. Thanks for all your input. I don't know if the grass is greener on the other side, but the picture being painted sure looks green!

we are here to help

 

[bebop]

I'll have to ask. I got a VIP email address for customer support by signing up though Costco and the guy I've been emailing has been quite helpful (though it takes about a day or two to get a response. But that's no big deal.)

I forgot to mention the 7-7 was out of whack, but there is a new 6-3 that it could be or it's just too new.

 

[Mr Tony]

I forgot to mention the 7-7 was out of whack, but there is a new 6-3 that it could be or it's just too new.

possibly. Obviously I can't check it to see what it is

 

[starshockey]

bebop
I plugged a Boise zip into the AM21 and it gave me these channels
2-1 & 2
4-1 through 4
6-1 & 2
7-1 through 7-3 and a 7-7
9-1 & 2
12-1 & 2
39-1 through 3

Dont forget about my 76109/76085 request.

 

[Mr Tony]

both zips are in the same market (DFW). If you have a 2nd market that you want to pick up on the AM21 the easiest thing is to put the zip of the town the other market is.
Example. I have Minneapolis (where I live) as primary and Mankato as secondary. Mankato is 60 miles down the road but a different DMA. I used the zip for there to get those stations

anywho here is what it shows. A couple I dont know what they are
2-1
4-1 & 2
5-1 thru 3
8-1 thru 3
11-1
12-1 & 2
21-1 & 2
23-1
27-1
29-1
33-1 & 2
41-1
47-1
49-1 & 2
9 (this logs as KFWD which wiki says is channle 52 but they use RF9 for digital)
54-1 & 2
55-1
45-1 & 2**
58-3 thru 5**
68-1 thru 4

**-after doing some looking this is the TBN mux in your area. For some reason they didnt map the 1st 2 channels right. They use 45 as the RF channel but mapped to 58. The last 3 channels map properly

 

[starshockey]

Thanks, I was afraid you would not find 31.3 and 31.4. 31.4 is our low power RTV feed. If we could just get ME TV here also I would be all set with the retro channels.

 

[kovach]

So when new channels are added to the D* database (and how do we know when they are?), do you have to go back through the setup process to see them, or should they automatically appear?

I actually had a CSR tell me that even ones not in their database should appear just without guide data, which I know is wrong.

 

[Mr Tony]

New channels that are added once they are added in the D* AM21 guide they show up. No need to rescan.

as for the 2dn part, nope. It has to be loaded in the database. I'm missing one station (a DT3 subchannel). I dont count the couple low powered religious stations that went digital