From Dish - PSIP Information
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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Yeah that's what mark posted, But what does it mean to us? It doesn't say dish is doing anything to the 811, does it? All it is passing along is the information about broadcasters increasing their PSIP info on 2/1/05, correct?
But I think that is the right course of action. Dish shouldn't code around incorrect PSIP data. Taking a "we'll help the engineers get it right" approach is comendable and the correct way to handle this. It also helps out all other HD customers in that area, and keeps Dish from having to maintain dozens of "work arounds" in their code base for years.
Not every station has made the same mistake, this could be dozens of problems here, each would require a complete understanding and unique approach to work around. That would be a real waste of time, especially went having the Station engineer "tweak a few settings" could aleviate the problem instantly.
Kudos to Dish for this stand.
Not every station has made the same mistake, this could be dozens of problems here, each would require a complete understanding and unique approach to work around. That would be a real waste of time, especially went having the Station engineer "tweak a few settings" could aleviate the problem instantly.
Kudos to Dish for this stand.
What about the 921? We don't get any psip data? I guess the 921 is not as intelligent as the 811. This must be why we have to pay for the locals from Dish in order to get any otat guide information. 
I think the 811 and 921 have the same tuners. I don't know why really it was adressed to the users of either box. I guess all the letter says is that if you have problems with stations, contact dish network and they will work with the station having the problem, sound right?
Mark talked a little about it in a thread on dbstalk. the 811 reads the PSIP real-time, adding/removing sub-channels dynamically, etc. The 921 only reads the PSIP info when you to a channel search.
For example, it seems that KXAS, NBC-5 in DFW is messing with their PSIP info. On my 921, I scanned the channel after L211 showed up and haven't touched it and it works fine. A number of recent people (including my dad who I saw last night) is having issues with NBC-5 because they scanned their's more recently and got some bad info. Even re-scanning doesn't seem to fix the issue all that much. Its a real mess, but I know I'm not touching the re-scan option on that channel at all until it gets fixed
For example, it seems that KXAS, NBC-5 in DFW is messing with their PSIP info. On my 921, I scanned the channel after L211 showed up and haven't touched it and it works fine. A number of recent people (including my dad who I saw last night) is having issues with NBC-5 because they scanned their's more recently and got some bad info. Even re-scanning doesn't seem to fix the issue all that much. Its a real mess, but I know I'm not touching the re-scan option on that channel at all until it gets fixed
I thought I should chime in here, as I did post that over at DBSTalk. I was going to put it over here as well, but ran out of time this morning. I appreciate Scott disseminating the information (although it would have been nice to have been named as the originator of the post).
Jason and I have been working very closely with a particular engineering group at Dish about this issue for the last month. We've had several chief engineers of stations around the country contact us to to get them to the right people at Dish. It's been a difficult month for a lot of stations trying to get their broadcasts up to specs before the deadline, and the group at Dish has been very helpful to the ones that have asked.
I very much applaud Dish for their efforts in helping out the engineers getting up to spec. They certainly didn't have to do this, but to dedicate manpower and dollars shows a real leadership and dedication to the industry and to the users. Big kudos from me - solving the root problem rather than just treating the symptoms. Definitely a move in the right direction.
Jason and I have been working very closely with a particular engineering group at Dish about this issue for the last month. We've had several chief engineers of stations around the country contact us to to get them to the right people at Dish. It's been a difficult month for a lot of stations trying to get their broadcasts up to specs before the deadline, and the group at Dish has been very helpful to the ones that have asked.
I very much applaud Dish for their efforts in helping out the engineers getting up to spec. They certainly didn't have to do this, but to dedicate manpower and dollars shows a real leadership and dedication to the industry and to the users. Big kudos from me - solving the root problem rather than just treating the symptoms. Definitely a move in the right direction.
Well, so far, DirecTV has contacted us, but Dish hasn't. Broadcasters have 120 days after publication in the national regester to comply. All broadcasters had to have minimum PSIP, which our two have. That is Station ID and Virtual Channel with some program and time info. Our upgrade includes full programming information and stable time. We were not using a GPS based time, and it would jump days randomly. The full PSIP for us includes GPS corrected time. The PSIP has not been published in the national register as yet, but should any day now.
I know that WAGA Fox out of Atlanta has been messing with their PSIP info, and it has caused grief for Dish 6000 and 811 users. Given the history of the 811, most people assumed it was a Dish related problem and called Dish for resolution. After a while, Dish said it was the local station's problem, and in this case that was correct.
I'm sure Dish is trying to assist the engineers at stations to help, but I'm sure they are trying to keep calls to Dish down. Who would think to call the TV station first? I would call my content provider first, and then I would get a little upset if I heard "It's not our problem, contact your TV station." That line sounds like they were trying to pass the buck, but in reality it was correct for this situation.
I'm sure Dish is trying to assist the engineers at stations to help, but I'm sure they are trying to keep calls to Dish down. Who would think to call the TV station first? I would call my content provider first, and then I would get a little upset if I heard "It's not our problem, contact your TV station." That line sounds like they were trying to pass the buck, but in reality it was correct for this situation.
One thing I don't like on Dish using the PSIP is that I can't see the PSIP without using my old DirecTV receiver that allows OTA without subscription and shows PSIP info and not just referencing parts of it.
OKCrew said:
There is more to PSIP than just mapping. PSIP also includes the Guide information and I am sure more stuff in there too. However, I have thought having a manual remap function would be a good thing. This whole PSIP mapping thing is a huge hack as I see it and is a level of redirection that is not really necessary.
I have also thought there is a place for an enhancement in this area. Guess it is time to add it to the list.
Can you post or PM email me who they can contact at dish.markdl said:
I talked to my Local station as I am having this problem they passed me on to these people
Hello Jeff
My name is Chris. We are the manufacture of WFIE’s PSIP generator. Jim has forwarded your email. I would like to ask what you have found? How do you measure what you are finding. I need to quantify everything. If we have a problem, I want to fix it but, I need to have verifiable data so, what ever you find I need to be able to repeat.
Thanks
Chris
Christopher M. Knechtel
Micronas Semiconductors Inc.
So seems like I need to hook up Chris and someone at DISH on this stream problem.
thanks
Trido
Yea, I know there is more there. I should have been more clear in that I meant ignore PSIP remapping allowing user manual assignment.
A couple of my locals mess with the PSIP or their encoder is set wrong and this will freak out the 811. It can also mess up my built in tuner but not as easily as the 811.
A couple of my locals mess with the PSIP or their encoder is set wrong and this will freak out the 811. It can also mess up my built in tuner but not as easily as the 811.
OKCrew said:
This is something I thought would be a nice feature for a while. You reminded me of it and I added it as a possible future enhancement. Only time will tell if it gets added.
As for the 811 messing up more, It is my understanding that the 811 is more dynamic in how it handles PSIP data then a lot of tuners. This dynamic nature has been the cause of some issues that don't affect less dynamic receivers.
WJW Fox 8 in Cleveland must have messed with their PSIP on Feb. 2nd. I tuned into FOX in the morning on Feb. 2nd and it was fine. In the evening I was experiencing the screen alternating between video and black with the info banner popping up. It was doing this about every second. I switched channels to another OTA channel and it locked in fine. I then went back to Fox and left it, thinking that it would eventually lock in. My 811 then froze and went into a re-boot and got stuck in acquiring signal. I then unplugged the receiver and plugged it back in. My 811 now cannot get past progress 3 of 5 during the acquiring signal process. It changes transponders and starts the count over, but never gets past progress 3 of 5. I called dish and went over the problem they didn’t tell me much, but they are shipping me a new 811.
jimm said:
I had the same video flashing problems with WJW Fox 8 in Clevleand last night and again this morning on my 811. It also will only appear as channel 31.1 instead of 8.1 but interesting I would still get good guide info even at 31.1. I have rebooted the 811 and did not have the problem with acquiring signal process. I have also had some problems with mapping of other channels WEWS ABC 5 and WUAB 43 but they appeared to be fixed this morning. WAUB 43 is interesting because its digital channel on Titan.TV is listed as 28.1. its digital channel frequency.
jimm said:
Exactly the same thing happened yesterday when WTTW Chicago changed their PSIP info. I could not get past 3 of 5. I called E tech. support. They couldn't figure it out either. Tech ordered me a new 811 to be installed Sunday.
I left the 811 unplugged for about an hour. Well, I thought I would give it another try. The unit booted up and is working normal. I am staying off of WTTW for the time being. If the reciever works OK I am going to cancel the service call.
My 811 started messing up 4 days ago on Dig-WAGA and Dig-WSB in Atlanta.The screen would freeze up and then it would re-boot.I called Dish and they said it was not a known problem but sent me a new 811.I hooked it up this morning and the problem seems to have gone away.I spoke to a buddy of mine at WAGA FOX and he said they finished working on the PSIP system 4 days ago.He spoke to his chief engineer and was told that Dish checked out their PSIP and said it was good.So,I take my old 811 to Mailboxes etc. to ship it back to Dish and the lady behind the counter said she's gotten 6 or 7 Dish recievers to ship back in the last 2 days!This was very unusual for her.This tells me that maybe the first 811's can't handle the new PSIP.My 811 was one of the first ones out 14 months ago.
Petemc11 said:
From what you describe this would indicate that there is some hardware change between the 811s to handle PSIP differently. That I doubt.
The likely scenario is that the station had some issues as they worked through PSIP and eventually those issues got worked out. My guess is that all those 811s that go shipped back would most likely work know. Could be wrong, but the timing matches pretty good.
