Fresnel Zone Plate Antennas. (Flat "dishes")

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telefrancisco

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Original poster
May 7, 2007
16
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Madrid, Spain, Europe
It seems that I can't reply to:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=420423
(another post on this topic: http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=19263), so here is my reply but on a new thread:

I have this article at work. It may be Radio-Electronics(October 1985) BUT I would have to check on Tuesday. I have not had time to make one yet.

Hi.

Sorry to recover this "old" message on the forum, but it seems the only forum I have managed to found any useful information about Fresnel Zone Plates. May I ask, what happened to that article, is there any possibility on getting it?

By the way, it seems there was another article about this topic on "Electronics & Wireless world", August 1989, perhaps anyone can manage to get it also?

Has anyone tried to build this type of antennas? I think it shouldn't be difficult, but... who knows.

Oh, and by the way, Hi to the forum, this is my first message (although I'm not from the USA, nor even American continent I hope you will accept me ;))

Thanks in advance for your possible replies :)
 
Last edited:
We're friendly.
Your technical interest would make you welcome, regardless. :)

I'll be watching this thread for some good info, too.
 
Wow, 200+ views in just 4 days! :)
Good for just 3 messages and nothing practical (still).

Well, just to make a brief resume or the article. Esentially it's just a series of concentrical circunferences (we are talking here
about a Prime Focus "dish", in an offset dish, instead of circunferences these would be ellipses, this is, a series of "concentrical"
ellipses, however that is not mentionated in the article), and finally it also recommends us to paint the antenna with metallic paint.

I don't want to explain here how this is supposed to work (in fact, I'm not sure If I have understood it ;) ).
It's just something about the different interferences of the waves, so, it's supposed that the waves act finally like in a parabolic
dish. Also, it's interesting to note that the gain of the antenna does not depend at all of the diameter but of the number of zones (the number of "circunferences", to explain it easily). However this in fact a limitation, because increasing the number of zones for the same diameter, means that the radius between one and another circunference it's smaller than with less zones, and, in consecuence, it's more difficult to draw (and cut) the circunferences, especially if you want to do it without special/professional tool. So in fact, this is a good idea, but it will be probably a better idea with big diameters.

So I think we'll start here. The article includes a BASIC program (1985, remember ;)) that calculates the circunferences to cut if we
enter some information:

1.-The wanted number of zones.
2.-The wanted outside radius.

Well, no more speak, here is the .bas code of the original program: http://usuarios.lycos.es/telefrancisco/plyweb/plywoodo.bas (The "o" stands for "Original" ;)) The file is just for reference. It's interesting as it does haves the formulas, but, however, I had some problems with it as it didn't showed up the correct results, so I have made:
a modification of the original file: http://usuarios.lycos.es/telefrancisco/plyweb/plywoodm.bas
(The "m" stands for "Modified")

As you can see it's not only a modification, because I have added also the calculation of the Theorical Gain of the designed antenna. If do you want to compile/modify it please note also that my BASIC compile calculates the natural logarithm (base "e" log, in LOG function, line 62) instead of the base 10 log. Appart from that add in lines 62 and 65, I have also modified the calculation of the square root (lines 70, 72 and 75), because as I said earlier the original program didn't calculate the correct result for me.
Also, there is a cosmetic change in Line 80.

Also, please note that, instead of the original it asks for the DIAMETER instead of the Radius (Line 55), as I think this will be easier as most of us currently think about the Diameter of the Dish. However, the result is the Cutting RADIUS as with the original program because it will be easy to build thinking about the radius. I don't know how in the USA you calculate the diameters because I saw foot and cm equally. I personally think in cm., but this it up to you (in the original article main calculations are done in cm.).
Also, I have added a "Press a key to end the application" (Lines 144 and 145) to avoid ending the program with just the result. This way would be easier if the program closes inmediately after the result, because I don't think you'll run the program on some old computer (although you may, too :D).

So no more speak, here is the modified program in an executable format:
-the Linux (compiled) version: http://usuarios.lycos.es/telefrancisco/plyweb/plywoodl
(If you do use the Linux version, do a chmod +x (or chmod u+x) inmediately after downloading the program, thanks :)).
-the DOS version:
http://usuarios.lycos.es/telefrancisco/plyweb/plywoodd.exe

-and the Windows version:
http://usuarios.lycos.es/telefrancisco/plyweb/plywoodw.exe


This is all for today.

I want to thank the FreeBASIC team for helping me (specially with the LOG "problem" :))

Also, thanks to the BCX Developers for helping me (specially in the code to end the program just when a key is pressed)

And, of course thank to you all that have at least opened the post ;) and accepted me besides of being European ;).

Finally, may I ask, although have asked in the first and third post: anyone haves access to: "Electronics & Wireless world", August 1989, as it's is supposed there is another article on this topic?

Thanks in advance for the possible replies, or, at least, for reading me :)
 
Duplicate posts deleted. First post approved...Please wait for moderation approval please. Sometimes posts like these are caught by a SPAM filter eapecially from new members. The more you repost the same message the more they are tied up by the spam filter! :)
 
Duplicate posts deleted. First post approved...Please wait for moderation approval please. Sometimes posts like these are caught by a SPAM filter eapecially from new members. The more you repost the same message the more they are tied up by the spam filter! :)


Oh, I'm sorry, I've reposted because I didn't knew there was a SPAM filter, thanks :)
 
LOL... Be aware that right now the Spam filter considers you a spammer because of the number of duplicate posts caught by the filter. I just approved this post which was obviouly not spam. :)

See ya
Tony
 
I seem to remember reading about a DTV flat dish / antenna for RV / moble use ?


Fresnel lenses are used for light houses for visable light ?

I onec had a cheap flat plastic lens , about the size of a sheet of typing paper , that I tried to use to make a projection TV . :)


Wyr




It seems that I can't reply to:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=420423
(another post on this topic: http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=19263), so here is my reply but on a new thread:



Hi.

Sorry to recover this "old" message on the forum, but it seems the only forum I have managed to found any useful information about Fresnel Zone Plates. May I ask, what happened to that article, is there any possibility on getting it?

By the way, it seems there was another article about this topic on "Electronics & Wireless world", August 1989, perhaps anyone can manage to get it also?

Has anyone tried to build this type of antennas? I think it shouldn't be difficult, but... who knows.

Oh, and by the way, Hi to the forum, this is my first message (although I'm not from the USA, nor even American continent I hope you will accept me ;))

Thanks in advance for your possible replies :)
 
I seem to remember reading about a DTV flat dish / antenna for RV / moble use ?

Yes, it does currently exist flat antennas, however they're are expensive, with his own LNB (so that you can't replace it) and there also just for DTH, this is smaller antennas, and powerful satellites (for example, the Kathrein Mobisat (model BAS 60) has a 50x50 surface, but they claim is like a 60 cm dish, and it costs 10 times more than a standard 60 cm dish!). I think it's just worth the use in Caravans, not for a regular home. Also, just to mention a curiosity, one of the first pay TV platforms in the UK BSB (that merged some months after the launch with Sky) had flat dishes instead of regular dishes. Look for "squarial" on your favorite search page ;)

It just curiois because now (in year 2007) Canal Satellite (pay TV from France) it's offering a "new" flat antenna: http://www.canalplus.fr/static/antenne_satellite_extra_plate/index.html (French)

I don't know what technology they're using, nor the technical specs, but it's just interesting they're offering a "similar" antenna that offered BSB more than 15 years ago!

However, the purpose of my thread is not only to discuss flat antennas, but a cheap and not so-complicated way of build them.

Fresnel lenses are used for light houses for visable light ?

I onec had a cheap flat plastic lens , about the size of a sheet of typing paper , that I tried to use to make a projection TV . :)


Wyr

The antenna that is proposed in the article it's basically that type of Fresnel Lens (made of plywood with an aluminum paint, that's it), it's the same principle than the lens you've used to try to build that projection TV, but just for electromagnetic waves (but for the love of God, don't point the Fresnel lens you used to build the projection TV to a satellite unless you want your LNB to be burnt!. In fact, one of the quicker ways of creating fire with the sun and a lens is using a Fresnel Lens :))

Thanks for replying to my thread.

Regards.
 
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