Ford to drop AM radio in new vehicles

[harshness]

The cost of adding AM to a radio is pennies so that is out.

Is it?

How much extra does it cost to outfit a vehicle with an antenna suitable for AM reception?

 

[stecle]

Is it?

How much extra does it cost to outfit a vehicle with an antenna suitable for AM reception?

Although I could be mistaken, I don't remember ever seeing a car with 2 antennas, one for FM and one for AM.

 

[jorgek]

Here's an update!

Ford reverses decision, says it will keep AM radio on 2024 models​

Ford reverses decision, says it will keep AM radio on 2024 models

CEO Jim Farley said Ford made the move after speaking with government policy leaders who are concerned about keeping emergency alerts that often are sounded on AM stations

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[navychop]

Although I could be mistaken, I don't remember ever seeing a car with 2 antennas, one for FM and one for AM.

Huh?

Totally different antennas. Didn’t you open up early radios to see inside? One antenna inside the body for AM (ferrite rod), one with telescopic antenna (FM).

Today, there ARE combined antennas. Loops, maybe. Not suitable for cars. Jack of all trades, Master of none.

 

[navychop]

Here's an update!

Ford reverses decision, says it will keep AM radio on 2024 models​

Ford reverses decision, says it will keep AM radio on 2024 models

CEO Jim Farley said Ford made the move after speaking with government policy leaders who are concerned about keeping emergency alerts that often are sounded on AM stations

www.theglobeandmail.com

Duck and Cover.

 

[harshness]

Although I could be mistaken, I don't remember ever seeing a car with 2 antennas, one for FM and one for AM.

That's not the issue. The issue is that there's lots of constraints on modern vehicles that make an AM-capable antenna difficult. The windows are getting smaller and the orientation of the antennas is, more often than not, horizontal while AM is typically vertically polarized. Whip antennas are pretty rare anymore.

Antenna basics

"A rose is a rose, is a rose is a rose" — but is an antenna always an antenna?

www.radioworld.com

 

[harshness]

Although I could be mistaken, I don't remember ever seeing a car with 2 antennas, one for FM and one for AM.

You usually didn't because all cars came with a whip antenna that could pick up AM's vertically polarized signals as well as FM's circularly polarized signals. Now most of the antennas are some sort of horizontally oriented window decal that doesn't do well at all with vertically polarized signals. As the windows grow shorter, the situation gets worse.

 

[NYDutch]

You usually didn't because all cars came with a whip antenna that could pick up AM's vertically polarized signals as well as FM's circularly polarized signals. Now most of the antennas are some sort of horizontally oriented window decal that doesn't do well at all with vertically polarized signals. As the windows grow shorter, the situation gets worse.

The "shark fin" antenna on our Toyota RAV4 houses the AM/FM antennas, the satellite radio antenna, and a temperature sensor.

What Are the Shark Fins on Cars For?

You've probably seen those shark fins on the top of cars before and wondered what in the world they could be for. Well, we have some answers.

www.coastalhyundai.com

 

[Jimbo]

The "shark fin" antenna on our Toyota RAV4 houses the AM/FM antennas, the satellite radio antenna, and a temperature sensor.

What Are the Shark Fins on Cars For?

You've probably seen those shark fins on the top of cars before and wondered what in the world they could be for. Well, we have some answers.

www.coastalhyundai.com

Really, I didn't reallize the shark fin has AM /Fm antennas in it ...
Wish all cars /trucks did that.

 

[harshness]

The "shark fin" antenna on our Toyota RAV4 houses the AM/FM antennas, the satellite radio antenna, and a temperature sensor.

The presence of the antenna isn't the issue. The issue is how well that antenna performs in the AM band. Absent long elements or a wound ferrite, the AM performance is the last thing that they can claim suitability for. The shark fins feature middling FM performance and what ever you get on AM that would come from an FM antenna. The one advantage that they have is a better ground plane than a fender-mounted whip.

The Shark fins are more about GPS and wireless performance than suitability for conventional radio broadcasts.

 

[stecle]

One important factor that we haven't discussed here is your location. If you drive in the city, a paperclip will get you most AM-FM stations (OTA too). My point is it doesn't cost the car manufactures much to add AM capacity to whatever type of radio antenna they are already installing on the car.

By the way, if I want to listen to an AM station that occasionally has some static, that is my choice. I don't need a car manufacturer deciding whats best for me.

 

[telstar_1]

You usually didn't because all cars came with a whip antenna that could pick up AM's vertically polarized signals as well as FM's circularly polarized signals. Now most of the antennas are some sort of horizontally oriented window decal that doesn't do well at all with vertically polarized signals. As the windows grow shorter, the situation gets worse.

GM got the bright idea to build the radio antenna into the windshield glass in the 70s. My fairly limited experience with that was lousy reception, though the radios themselves were nothing to boast about. Ford kept it as an outside mast. Info I've gone on was that AM wanted a bit taller mast while FM a little shorter. I still listen to AM in the car, but mostly at night to see what's on skip from 100s of miles away. By day it's pretty much all NPR, which is on FM, but I guess a lot of it used to be on AM?

I believe Ford had cited streaming as means to receive AM stations if wanted.

 

[harshness]

My point is it doesn't cost the car manufactures much to add AM capacity to whatever type of radio antenna they are already installing on the car.

Your point is based on what verifiable background information?

 

[harshness]

Info I've gone on was that AM wanted a bit taller mast while FM a little shorter.

With vertical whip antennas and AM, the taller the better. FM works best at about 30" (93.6MHz) so the manufacturers compromised on that for both.

GM's windshield antennas were essentially half-wavelength FM dipoles and like the shark fins, AM reception was not specifically provided (the paperclip scenario).

 

[stecle]

Your point is based on what verifiable background information?

I could probably commission Deloitte Touche to provide that information. Might take a few months though.

 

[Jimbo]

With vertical whip antennas and AM, the taller the better. FM works best at about 30" (93.6MHz) so the manufacturers compromised on that for both.

GM's windshield antennas were essentially half-wavelength FM dipoles and like the shark fins, AM reception was not specifically provided (the paperclip scenario).

I wish if they Have to have an antenna on the fender, that they make a better one thats about 6" shorter ...
Every truck I've had has an antenna that hits the garage door coming into it.

 

[harshness]

I wish if they Have to have an antenna on the fender, that they make a better one thats about 6" shorter ...

Radio wave reception is all about having the appropriate length for the wavelength and hoping and wishing otherwise is pissing into the wind. Antennas can be "loaded" with coils, but that makes them a lot more expensive and often less durable.

That's a lot of money to spend on a feature that most have given up on.

The problem perhaps is more about people using vehicles with fenders that are significantly more than 50" high as daily drivers.

 

[Jimbo]

Radio wave reception is all about having the appropriate length for the wavelength and hoping and wishing otherwise is pissing into the wind. Antennas can be "loaded" with coils, but that makes them a lot more expensive and often less durable.

That's a lot of money to spend on a feature that most have given up on.

The problem perhaps is more about people using vehicles with fenders that are significantly more than 50" high as daily drivers.

You mean the Everyday F 150 is too high ?
I understand if its a 250-650 's those are designed to sit up higher.

Chevy and Ram are all the same.

 

[harshness]

You mean the Everyday F 150 is too high ?

Apparently it is for your garage if its antenna is whacking your garage door header.

What's new here may be that pickups now get parked in the garage and that they have become oddly typical of a daily driver. Clearly, garage door standards haven't made the adjustment to this world of a truck with 17+ inch wheels and a menacing facade in every garage.

 

[Jimbo]

Apparently it is for your garage if its antenna is whacking your garage door header.

What's new here may be that pickups now get parked in the garage and that they have become oddly typical of a daily driver. Clearly, garage door standards haven't made the adjustment to this world of a truck with 17+ inch wheels and a menacing facade in every garage.

Yes, seeing I am living alone, My Truck goes In the garage ...

If I wasn't, I'm 100% sure it would be outside ....