Follow up on installation

[iowapilot]

Alright, so the installer made it out to my house today. He was a really nice guy and answered some questions I had which I was appreciative of. Then the bad part....

He mounts on the roof, which I finally realized was my only option since I had no other LOS attached to the house. I went outside with him to watch everything he was doing to just kind of keep an eye out so he didnt do anything I didnt want him to do.

I first watched him just put 4 lag screws on the corners of the mounting plate without sealing it. I didnt notice him look for a rafter, which wouldnt matter because he didnt even screw in the two long lags anyway. Then he had the mast turned around (leaning backwards) which kept him from being able to level it. I suppose that wasnt a big deal as far as I know as long as he could get a good signal, which he did.

As he was cleaning up, I noticed he just left the grounding blocks laying in the dirt without being attached to anything and without being grounded. I was really surprised that he would cut corners here knowing full well what might happen given the proper circumstances, however slim they may be.

This was the reason for my other post not wanting the roof mount. I KNEW this would happen. I just decided to let him leave because the weather isnt supposed to be all that bad at least through mid week, and I can call Monday and have them send someone out as soon as possible to finish up the work he didnt do.

Unfortunately, he was more concerned about making it home before 4 on a Saturday then making sure the job was done right. I dont know what he was thinking really...does he not understand that if this roof mount leaks his company is responsible for the damages? Or if lightning or static ruins my equipement, or God forbid, my family gets hurt that they are equally as responsible?

It is really a shame that good, reliable service is so hard to come by these days. That is why I like to do business where I can choose the provider. I didnt have much of a choice in this situation, not that I would have really known one way or the other for this install anyway.

EDIT: I also forgot to add that he set the dish right parallel with a young tree that may possibly grow another 20 feet within the next 5 years or so. I am not as sure about this one as I am the other items, but when the next installer comes out I will ask him to make his best judgement call on that.

Also, he said he made 4 installs today (I was the last one) and he was pulling out of my driveway by 4pm. Is that a typical day? I would think it would take longer than that to do 4 installs. Heck, if you start at 8 and dont take a lunch that is averaging 2 hours an install. It took him 1.5 hours on mine, and most of the cabling was already in place. He had to drill one hole in my floor to pull the coax up through which took 5 minutes tops. Just wondering....

I have to keep editing my post because I keep thinking of questions to ask the pros here. How should I approach the company about this? Will they take these concerns seriously and send out someone other than the installer who was here today? I liked the guy personally, but I really do not want him back here if I can avoid it.

 

[ckudrna]

I am by no means a pro, that being said,

1. I have never had a good experience with installers. Sure, they are out there, and their are some on this board, but a lot of them are fly by night morons, in all honesty. As with any service industry, this installer just met the threshold for installing the thing and then leaving. If it works, the average Joe won't tell the difference and he will be fine.

2. If you paid for this install, get a refund until it is done properly. Talk to the manager / supervisor at the company that installed it and explain what happened and the parts of the install the guy missed (grounding, etc). Make it clear that you are certainly will be reporting this incident to DirecTV as the actions they took may have caused harm to your home, your equipment, and your family. Remind them that grounding is required, and the brainiacs at this install company did not abide by code. No faster way to get a license revoked than to violate government laws.

3. You did a good thing by keeping a close eye on him when he installed it. Keep the same close eye on the next installer that fixes what this guy did. If you have an issue with something he/she is doing, speak up. It is your equipment and your home, they have no right to do what they want, you have the final say.

 

[iowapilot]

First of all, thanks for the reply.

I called just now to have something set up for tomorrow to ground the dish. I was informed that sealing the mount was an "extra service" that I need to pay for. Can any installers actually confirm this? It doesnt make much sense since it is a step in their self installation guide. I told her that sooner or later that would have to leak and all she said was I could seal it if I wanted to, but they wouldnt do it unless I paid extra.

No one was really that concerned about the grounding of the system until the last lady I talked to. Yes, I had to talk to about 5 people and about 1/2 hour of my time to get this worked out. I think thats a little long, but hey what do I know.

 

[mcsj]

Where Iowa are you in? Any chance that the install company starts with the word "Yates"?

 

[iowapilot]

Actually I do not know for sure. I am in the Des Moines area and the original installer wrote "Express" along with an 800 number on the top of the satisfaction checklist. I dont know if the Express thing is the actual name of the company or what, since they do not answer their phones using the company name.

 

[dishjockey]

Sealing the mount isn't extra. If this causes a leak you can sue the installation co. call direc tell them your roof leaks , threaten to sue someone will be out asap to fix it for free.

 

[iowapilot]

Well, the lady on the phone at DTV was kind of a B* about it. I asked her several times, because I just could not believe what she was saying. I couldnt find the self installation guide quick enough to tell her that it was a step there before the call ended. I did call the installation company right after that though to ask about the first tech not coming back out and to ask about sealing the mount. She said it was part of the install, thankfully.

The new tech should be here soon, unless I am the second install for today.

 

[iowapilot]

Well, finally the work has been completed. When I called yesterday to make the appointment to finish the installation, I specifically asked that the previous tech not come to my house. I even requested that by his tech id number. Guess who calls me this morning....I called DTV right back and told them they better send someone else because there is no way I was letting that crappy tech touch my system.

Come to find out he is just a contractor. The guy that showed up today actually works for the company and is a lead tech. He was awesome. Took care of everything professionally, and even helped clean out a downspout he noticed was clogged while he was up on the roof. I was very pleased with the work he did today, and wish everyone could get a tech like this one. From what he was saying today, he basically goes around cleaning up everyone else's screw ups. He said they are so busy right now that they dont even think about firing any of the techs.

At any rate, Im finally glad it is all taken care of and I feel better now that I know the roof is sealed and its all grounded out. Anyone who is having an install done should watch everything the tech does, especially if he is a contractor. They get paid by the job (about $90 from what this tech said today) and want to get each one done as quickly as possible. God only knows how many other people in this area have ungrounded systems and dont even know it.

 

[dishjockey]

I am a contractor. The worst work I see done around here is by dish's hsp.

 

[iowapilot]

Well, that isnt what I was told, and judging by the work that was done on my home by this contractor, I have no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[Murf1372]

Directv

Was reading through this thread and thought I would put in my two cents. The first year i installed for DTV I was a contractor. I was supposed to ground and supposed to run phone lines but more often than not i did not. I also used the crimp style 'F' connectors because I had to pay for all my own equipment and they were the cheapest. Since that first year I have come to my senses and I now install DirecTV for a HSP (Home Service Provider)(going on two years now)(we are employees with health benefits and overtime but still get paid piece work, we ARE NOT independent contractors.); a little side note on HSP's. They are contracted through DTV. Every HSP has to ground in accordance with Fed regulations and any state or county regulations. Every time a new IRD (receiver) is installed a phone MUST be ran with it if there is not an exisiting phone line in that location. Any HSP that does not follow the rules that DTV sets forth in it's HSP contract, get all DTV work taken from them. EX. An HSP in New York tried to get more money per job by deciding to go union, well they did go union and DTV yanked all the work from them and they soon went bankrupt and shut down. The point to all of this (yes there is one) is any time you need any service work done you should call the dtv 800 number. That way the work gets routed to the appropriate HSP. Granted your was a new install, for future reference. My expereince has been the same as your 2nd tech that came out. I am always cleaning up after independent contractors. They do not have to worry about DTV coming out and checking the work from time. (60% of HSP work orders are checked for proper installation by DTV personnel)

Guess thats about it, except, I am planning on relocating to Houston, TX. and if ANYONE knows the HSP that covers the Houston area I would like to know the name and a contact number. ANy help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[justsatellites]

And on the FLIP side of the coin. Some of the worst "free installs" I have had the pleasure of fixing/repairing/re-installing were done in the beginning by a DTV HSP. Lags ran into vinyl siding (nothing but foam behind it), cable entry points with no drip loops and no sealant. RG-6 conected into existing RG59, etc etc. My point (and yes there is one) there are good HSP installers just as there are good Independent Contractor installers. But there are also just as many bad ones regardless of where your pay check comes from. Just my .02

 

[skid_129]

HSP techs are employees of the HSP, they are NOT contractors. Whomever at the HSP told you otherwise is either; (A) lying, or (B)Uninformed themselves. Whenever you call directv to order, your job is routed to an HSP.

My HSP experience has been that new techs are sent out into the field with little or no training. This is due to the fact that many HSPs do not pay for OTJ training, resulting in the new tech getting just the general idea of installing before going out on thier own. I have replaced bad installs by both contractors and HSP techs (even lead techs). The very low "per job" wages and extensive workloads at HSPs tend to drive the lack of concern on the part of techs. I always tried to do my very best to rectify any issues a customer may have. Usually this resulted in dipping too far into my own pockets to realize a profit from the job. The logic being, that eventually my job would be easier as my repeat customers would have a system that was properly installed. Once my routes starting being assigned with jobs out of my service area, this became unfeasible. I was forced to advise some customers to contact thier original retailer/installer. Most customers would find this unfavorable if they had requested another installer instead of the original. But, most do not realize that the second installer is getting service call rates for completely reworking an install that the original tech got paid much more for. I feel that if a customer is not satisfied with an install, they should NOT sign the customer satisfaction checklist. Or sign anything for that matter. That way, the technician will not get paid until has has performed the work he is being paid to do. I had one customer flat refuse to call the original installer and insisted that I would completely recable his entire home for free. This would have required an excess of 600ft of new cable. Completely out of the question. I regretfully advised the customer that he must contact the original retailer, or pay for the cable. He opted to cancel the service call. Being scheduled anywhere from 10 to 15 jobs per day over a 100-150 mile route, many times the "extra somthing for nothing" that all customers like was just out of the question.

Sealing of roof mounts IS required by DTV. It is included in thier description of the free standard installation.

As per the question regarding line of site. It is the standard to have a line of sight that will remain unobstructed by vegetation for a period of at least one year. I try to allow a little extra, just to be safe. After that, the customer is responsible for trimming/pruning or bearing the cost of a relocation.

Grounding: Very important. A technician out of my former HSP's Memphis office neglected to ground a system. The dish was later struck by lightening and burnt the home down. The customer sued DTV, DTV issued a $36,000.00 chargeback to the HSP, the HSP issued the chargeback to the tech, the tech quit, and the HSP is in the process of suing said tech. My advice in a no ground/bad ground situation, is to contact the installing company and remind them of the state and federal codes concerning proper grounding. If they seem to be uncooperative, contact the provider directly.

Murf1372,
I recently contact DTV and inquired as to what exactly is included in thier free standard installation. They do NOT include running of phone lines in the free install. Only connecting to an existing jack within 25 ft. Likely, your HSP just threw that in on their own. Mine tried that with us.

 

[skid_129]

HSP techs are employees of the HSP, they are NOT contractors. Whomever at the HSP told you otherwise is either; (A) lying, or (B)Uninformed themselves. Whenever you call directv to order, your job is routed to an HSP.

My HSP experience has been that new techs are sent out into the field with little or no training. This is due to the fact that many HSPs do not pay for OTJ training, resulting in the new tech getting just the general idea of installing before going out on thier own. I have replaced bad installs by both contractors and HSP techs (even lead techs). The very low "per job" wages and extensive workloads at HSPs tend to drive the lack of concern on the part of techs. I always tried to do my very best to rectify any issues a customer may have. Usually this resulted in dipping too far into my own pockets to realize a profit from the job. The logic being, that eventually my job would be easier as my repeat customers would have a system that was properly installed. Once my routes starting being assigned with jobs out of my service area, this became unfeasible. I was forced to advise some customers to contact thier original retailer/installer. Most customers would find this unfavorable if they had requested another installer instead of the original. But, most do not realize that the second installer is getting service call rates for completely reworking an install that the original tech got paid much more for. I feel that if a customer is not satisfied with an install, they should NOT sign the customer satisfaction checklist. Or sign anything for that matter. That way, the technician will not get paid until has has performed the work he is being paid to do. I had one customer flat refuse to call the original installer and insisted that I would completely recable his entire home for free. This would have required an excess of 600ft of new cable. Completely out of the question. I regretfully advised the customer that he must contact the original retailer, or pay for the cable. He opted to cancel the service call. Being scheduled anywhere from 10 to 15 jobs per day over a 100-150 mile route, many times the "extra somthing for nothing" that all customers like was just out of the question.

Sealing of roof mounts IS required by DTV. It is part of a properly done roof mount installation.

As per the question regarding line of site. It is the standard to have a line of sight that will remain unobstructed by vegetation for a period of at least one year. I try to allow a little extra, just to be safe. After that, the customer is responsible for trimming/pruning or bearing the cost of a relocation.

Grounding: Very important. A technician out of my former HSP's Memphis office neglected to ground a system. The dish was later struck by lightening and burnt the home down. The customer sued DTV, DTV issued a $36,000.00 chargeback to the HSP, the HSP issued the chargeback to the tech, the tech quit, and the HSP is in the process of suing said tech. My advice in a no ground/bad ground situation, is to contact the installing company and remind them of the state and federal codes concerning proper grounding. If they seem to be uncooperative, contact the provider directly.

Murf1372,
I recently contact DTV and inquired as to what exactly is included in thier free standard installation. They do NOT include running of phone lines in the free install. Only connecting to an existing jack within 25 ft. Likely, your HSP just threw that in on their own. Mine tried that with us.

 

[skid_129]

For those interested, here is how DirecTV defines thier free standard installation to a customer:

Dear Derrick,

Thanks for your interest in DIRECTV. I'm excited to hear that you're
considering joining the DIRECTV family. Standard Professional
Installation includes the following:

Dish Mounting- Mounting dish on an outside wall or roof within 100
feet
of TV. Mounting dish on a pole (up to 5 feet) if required for line of
sight. Hardware needed to mount and ground ground dish.

Wiring and Connections- Up to 125 feet of RG-6 cable per receiver.
Routing all cables to 1 TV through an exterior wall or from basement.
Connecting 1 DIRECTV receiver and 1 VCR and/or DVD player if they
connect to the same outlet as TV.

Phone Connection- Connecting system to an existing phone jack
within 25 feet of TV.

Equipment- Multiswitches.

Customer Education- 20-minute customer training session.

Anything in addition may be considered custom work. If custom work
needs to be done, the technician will negotiate the cost in writing before
beginning any work and would also collect the payment directly from
you.

We look forward to serving you as a customer and showing you why
DIRECTV is the best entertainment value available.

Sincerely,

Neeti
DIRECTV Customer Service

 

[slacker9876]

Installers

Every DirecTV installer I have ever worked with has been extremely professional. I guess there may be truth to the adage "If you want something done right, you better do it yourself" I have ALWAYS self-installed.

I would add that my neighbor just had a 3-room install done. He purchased his equipment from Ultimate Electronics (SoundTrack) and I believe they did the install. Given that my neighbor is an electrician, he pulled all his own cables and borrowed my crimper and waterproof connectors. in relation to dish mounting the installer did a great job and my buddy said the guy was courteous, knowledgeable and professional. I checked his install and there was no ground to the dish ... I told my buddy he needs to do this (he is an electrician) and told him the Voom install story that resulted in my outlets arcing one day.

That is too bad that you had such a rough experience. I think installers should be personally liable, it would help to improve workmanship as well as workman like behavior.

 

[srober]

I find the phone line part of the installation odd. They seem to enforce that requirement when they want. I hooked up my kids bedroom to a Directv receiver and they lady on the phone said it was fine not to have it hooked up....Which was fine with me!

 

[fkostyn]

There are always some good ones in addition to some bad ones. I have seen several good installs done - along with bad ones.

When I first signed up for Directv over a year ago - I actually did the install myself. I work for a major retailer and have seen too many "complaints" in regards to the installs. (The install company here in Phx is not that great).

My only trouble was actually getting the units activated with Directv. I had the units up and running about an hour after I purchased them.

Now if I would quit jacking up the roof that the dish is mounted on I wouldn't have to re-align it so often