Finally something to watch on in 4k on Dish but not!

[DERG]

Since the Olympics began I have been receiving channels 146-01 & 148-01 thinking I was watching true 4k. Well, today I was suspicious that it was true 4k so I did an info check with my Samsung TV & it said the input was 1080i. Suprise!

Turns channels 146-01 & 148-01 are 4k but my 4x HDMI splitter isn't compatible. It passed Dish's signal to my TV but only @ 1080. Turns out the 4x HDMI splitter was compatible (HDCP 1.2) at the time of purchase but not as of today with HDCP 2.2. So, none of the 4k signal was making it to my TV.

My cables, however, are 4k compatible so I bypassed the 4x HDMI splitter & now receiving channels 146-01 & 148-01 in not only 4k but at 60P. BIG difference. Go 4k!

Looks like I need a new 4x HDMI splitter @ HDCP 2.2!

 

[LASooner]

Monoprice is where I go when I have need like that.

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15259

 

[JM42]

Report back the results.

 

[kwindrem]

Since the Olympics began I have been receiving channels 146-01 & 148-01 thinking I was watching true 4k. Well, today I was suspicious that it was true 4k so I did an info check with my Samsung TV & it said the input was 1080i. Suprise!

Turns channels 146-01 & 148-01 are 4k but my 4x HDMI splitter isn't compatible. It passed Dish's signal to my TV but only @ 1080. Turns out the 4x HDMI splitter was compatible (HDCP 1.2) at the time of purchase but not as of today with HDCP 2.2. So, none of the 4k signal was making it to my TV.

My cables, however, are 4k compatible so I bypassed the 4x HDMI splitter & now receiving channels 146-01 & 148-01 in not only 4k but at 60P. BIG difference. Go 4k!

Looks like I need a new 4x HDMI splitter @ HDCP 2.2!

I'm not sure just replacing the splitter will solve your problem. Doesn't the splitter negotiate the rate based on what's possible on all connected displays? Wouldn't all TVs connected to the splitter need to support UHD video in order to get 4K to your main TV? If you did find a way to have the splitter forward 4K compatibility from your main TV, the source would output that and the other TV(s) would not display a picture because they don't support the higher rates.

 

[DERG]

Monoprice is where I go when I have need like that.

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15259

The Blackbird 4K Pro 1x4 HDMI® Splitter with HDCP 2.2 and EDID Support looks similar to one I saw on Amazon. The specs look good! Thanks.

Report back the results.

I will.

 

[DERG]

I'm not sure just replacing the splitter will solve your problem. Doesn't the splitter negotiate the rate based on what's possible on all connected displays? Wouldn't all TVs connected to the splitter need to support UHD video in order to get 4K to your main TV? If you did find a way to have the splitter forward 4K compatibility from your main TV, the source would output that and the other TV(s) would not display a picture because they don't support the higher rates.

This is a good point.

Here's my setup; I split HDMI to 3 TVs. Our main 4k is in our great room, we have a seldom used HD TV in our bedroom & we have an HD projector in a dedicated room in the basement which is seldom used for TV watching other than, say, the Super Bowl. Before adding Hopper 3 & a new 4k TV, I wasn't overly concerned about HDMI cables as they were all recently purchased & high quality. When recently adding the Hopper 3 & 4k TV I purchased three 4k compatible HDMI cables & replaced all but the main input HDMI & the basement projector's HDMI cables. The main HDMI cable that connected to the splitter was an older cable but purchased not too long ago. All appeared OK as everything was in HD anyways.

Yesterday when I saw the 2 - UHD channels were indicating 1080i on my 4k set I knew something was up. I disconnected all HDMIs & used only the 2 that I knew were 4k compatible & connected one from Dish to the splitter & one from the splitter to the TV. I got nothing. I then connected the HDMI directly from Dish to the TV & there it was; 3840x2160 60P UHD.

I tried a combination of 4k HDMI to the splitter, 4k HDMI to the 4k set plus the other 2 HDMIs that go to other sets that were not turned on at the time. What happened was no signal came to the 4k set at all. The splitter's LEDs were blinking. This tells me that the original input HDMI cable I used was not 4k compatible. Dish recognised this & feed only 1080i to the splitter. This is why everything appeared to work. When that cable was replaced with a valid 4k HDMI cable as an input the next link was the splitter. The LEDs blinked because the signal it received was incompatible.

It will be interesting to see if a replacement splitter will do the trick. Being these sets are not on at the same time it may not make a difference. Then again; it might!

 

[kwindrem]

This is a good point.

Here's my setup; I split HDMI to 3 TVs. Our main 4k is in our great room, we have a seldom used HD TV in our bedroom & we have an HD projector in a dedicated room in the basement which is seldom used for TV watching other than, say, the Super Bowl. Before adding Hopper 3 & a new 4k TV, I wasn't overly concerned about HDMI cables as they were all recently purchased & high quality. When recently adding the Hopper 3 & 4k TV I purchased three 4k compatible HDMI cables & replaced all but the main input HDMI & the basement projector's HDMI cables. The main HDMI cable that connected to the splitter was an older cable but purchased not too long ago. All appeared OK as everything was in HD anyways.

Yesterday when I saw the 2 - UHD channels were indicating 1080i on my 4k set I knew something was up. I disconnected all HDMIs & used only the 2 that I knew were 4k compatible & connected one from Dish to the splitter & one from the splitter to the TV. I got nothing. I then connected the HDMI directly from Dish to the TV & there it was; 3840x2160 60P UHD.

I tried a combination of 4k HDMI to the splitter, 4k HDMI to the 4k set plus the other 2 HDMIs that go to other sets that were not turned on at the time. What happened was no signal came to the 4k set at all. The splitter's LEDs were blinking. This tells me that the original input HDMI cable I used was not 4k compatible. Dish recognised this & feed only 1080i to the splitter. This is why everything appeared to work. When that cable was replaced with a valid 4k HDMI cable as an input the next link was the splitter. The LEDs blinked because the signal it received was incompatible.

It will be interesting to see if a replacement splitter will do the trick. Being these sets are not on at the same time it may not make a difference. Then again; it might!

If the splitter can't handle UHD then the cables will make no difference. It's the splitter's inability to handle UHD that's preventing pictures from your UHD TVs. You need to run your cable experiment after replacing the splitter. There is nothing magic about UHD-compatible cables and shorter cables not specifically approved for UHD may work fine, although the data rates are significantly higher and lower-cost cables could cause loss of picture.

Unfortunately, the handshaking circuitry that occurs over HDMI is powered by the SOURCE, not the TV so even if the TV is off, it is likely that your system would still not operate at UHD rates. We've already seen this in situations where a Dish receiver feeds one TV via HDMI and another via component. If the TV is off, HDCP handshake fails and the component output doesn't work either. That's a bug in the receiver in my opinion but it does indicate that handshake does at least partially occur with the TV off. Unplugging the HDMI cables to TVs that are turned off may be required.

 

[JM42]

I really doubt it was the cable.

When the other TVs were connected, the splitter was reporting the common formats supported by all TVs to the H3, which was 1080p/i and below. The H3 then sends the 1080i signal.

When only the 4K TV was connected, the splitter probably reported back 4K to the H3. The H3 attempts to send 4K, but between the switch not truly supporting it, HDCP issues, and who knows what else, the result is no picture.

If you want HDMI 4K and HD off the same H3 then a scaler or something else is going to be in the mix.

I don't have a 4K TV. Are the component outputs sending out anything when 4K is active?

 

[DERG]

If the splitter can't handle UHD then the cables will make no difference. It's the splitter's inability to handle UHD that's preventing pictures from your UHD TVs. You need to run your cable experiment after replacing the splitter. There is nothing magic about UHD-compatible cables and shorter cables not specifically approved for UHD may work fine, although the data rates are significantly higher and lower-cost cables could cause loss of picture.

Unfortunately, the handshaking circuitry that occurs over HDMI is powered by the SOURCE, not the TV so even if the TV is off, it is likely that your system would still not operate at UHD rates. We've already seen this in situations where a Dish receiver feeds one TV via HDMI and another via component. If the TV is off, HDCP handshake fails and the component output doesn't work either. That's a bug in the receiver in my opinion but it does indicate that handshake does at least partially occur with the TV off. Unplugging the HDMI cables to TVs that are turned off may be required.

I believe you are correct.

Here's what I know. When an older HDMI cable was used as output from H3 to input of the splitter, all my units worked in HD. It wasn't until understanding that no UHD signal was passed from Dish channels 146-01 & 148-01 to my 4k Samsung TV did I realize something was up, although I wasn't impressed with what I thought was a 4k picture on those 4k channels.

All was full UHD when a known 4k HDMI cable was connected from Dish directly to the 4k set. I have to admit that it seems that all channels to have a noticeably better picture.

Using one of the 4k HDMI cables as an input to the splitter & one 4k HDMI cable as an output to the 4k TV caused the splitter not to work at all. LEDs on the splitter just blinked. The other sets were not connected. It seems to me that the H3 recognized the cable's HDMI 2.0 compatibility to HDCP 2.2, feed that signal to an incompatible splitter.

I really doubt it was the cable.

When the other TVs were connected, the splitter was reporting the common formats supported by all TVs to the H3, which was 1080p/i and below. The H3 then sends the 1080i signal.

When only the 4K TV was connected, the splitter probably reported back 4K to the H3. The H3 attempts to send 4K, but between the switch not truly supporting it, HDCP issues, and who knows what else, the result is no picture.

If you want HDMI 4K and HD off the same H3 then a scaler or something else is going to be in the mix.

I don't have a 4K TV. Are the component outputs sending out anything when 4K is active?

There are 4k splitters with HDCP 2.2 available & I will replace the one I have & report back in a few days. Interestingly, I posted a negative review on Amazon concerning my splitter problems only because purchasers of this product will find that it is obsolete. The seller contacted me & offered a refund if I removed the review. They do not have an updated product so I'll have to use a different seller for the new one.

I report back once the new splitter in installed with results.

 

[n0qcu]

there is no channel 146-01 it is channel 146

 

[DERG]

there is no channel 146-01 it is channel 146

My bad. Glad you caught my error. 146 it is!

 

[JM42]

There are 4k splitters with HDCP 2.2 available & I will replace the one I have & report back in a few days.

Best odds is to get one that allows forcing the EDID info. There used to be two basic types, either allowing you to force a particular setting manually, or always pass the EDID of a particular port.

 

[DERG]

Best odds is to get one that allows forcing the EDID info. There used to be two basic types, either allowing you to force a particular setting manually, or always pass the EDID of a particular port.

Thanks. This one at Amazon says it's "Automatic" EDID". I posted a question explaining my set up & their response was all's good. It's on order & will be here 8/18

 

[DERG]

The unit I purchased does pass 4k through the splitter to my Samsung 4k & works perfectly for that one set. However, the other 2 HD sets will NOT work unless the 4k is unplugged from output #1 & the other set can then be connected to output #1 & the splitter will down rez.

So, overall answer is it doesn't work with mixed 4k & HD sets. Bummer!

 

[kwindrem]

The unit I purchased does pass 4k through the splitter to my Samsung 4k & works perfectly for that one set. However, the other 2 HD sets will NOT work unless the 4k is unplugged from output #1 & the other set can then be connected to output #1 & the splitter will down rez.

So, overall answer is it doesn't work with mixed 4k & HD sets. Bummer!

It is unlikely the splitter is down rez the source from UND to HD. The splitter is simply passing the TV's capability on to the source which then adjusts its output resolution to match the TV. With a mix of UHD and HD TVs connected, the splitter could either pass on one matching resolution that all TVs support or as it seems in this case, just passing the resolutions supported by output #1. That would explain why the HD TVs don't make a picture when the source produces UHD.

Scaling capability is necessary to down rez UHD to HD and you won't find that in a splitter. I found a couple of converters but all stop short of 2160p60. Some will do 2160p30/24 or 2160i60 with 8-bit depth.

AJA Video has converter boxes but you'd need one that converts UND on HDMI to dual-link SDI, then a scaler to down rez with dual-link SDI and HDMI output. Total cost is about $1,200 MSRP.

 

[JM42]

The unit I purchased does pass 4k through the splitter to my Samsung 4k & works perfectly for that one set. However, the other 2 HD sets will NOT work unless the 4k is unplugged from output #1 & the other set can then be connected to output #1 & the splitter will down rez.

So, overall answer is it doesn't work with mixed 4k & HD sets. Bummer!

Does it work for regular 1080i output with the 4K TV connected?

 

[DERG]

It is unlikely the splitter is down rez the source from UND to HD. The splitter is simply passing the TV's capability on to the source which then adjusts its output resolution to match the TV. With a mix of UHD and HD TVs connected, the splitter could either pass on one matching resolution that all TVs support or as it seems in this case, just passing the resolutions supported by output #1. That would explain why the HD TVs don't make a picture when the source produces UHD.

Scaling capability is necessary to down rez UHD to HD and you won't find that in a splitter. I found a couple of converters but all stop short of 2160p60. Some will do 2160p30/24 or 2160i60 with 8-bit depth.

AJA Video has converter boxes but you'd need one that converts UND on HDMI to dual-link SDI, then a scaler to down rez with dual-link SDI and HDMI output. Total cost is about $1,200 MSRP.

My bad! I typed without thinking. I misspoke when I said, "the splitter will down rez". Dish H3 detects non compliant HDMI 2.0 + HDCP 2.2 sets connected to input #1 (probably non compliant cables, too) & only allows 1080 output to the splitter input. The splitter does not down rez.

Assuming compliant HDMI 2.0 + HDCP 2.2 cables are used, the key to the splitter is what type of set is plugged into output #1. If it is a compliant HDMI 2.0 + HDCP 2.2 set, all other outputs must be compliant as well for the signal to pass to them. Any non compliant set will not receive any signal.

If output #1 is connected to a non compliant TV, H3 detects this & only 1080 will flow through the splitter to all other sets including a 4k compliant TV. No UHD.

 

[DERG]

Does it work for regular 1080i output with the 4K TV connected?

If you mean, will it pass 4k to your 4k TV & 1080 to the others? No. This is what I wanted it to do but it doesn't. I explained how it would pass 1080 to all sets at the very bottom below. With that setup the 4k set would not receive 4k.

In my old splitter setup (which I thought the splitter was 4k compliant), I used a HDMI cable that in fact was non compliant from my H3 to the splitter input. The cable wasn't all that old & I didn't think there was a difference. H3 detected this non compliant cable & only allowed 1080 to pass. On my 3 TV splitter setup (one TV being 4k) I never knew the difference until one Olympic channel (148-01) was to be broadcast in 4k. The picture didn't look any different than HD. An info check on my 4k TV indicated it was receiving 1080 only.

The key to using the splitter is what type of set is plugged into output #1. With the new splitter installed, all compliant HDMI cables used, H3 passes UHD to my 4k TV if it is plugged into output #1. Any non compliant TV will NOT work using any of the other 3 outputs. They must be fully compliant HDMI 2.0 + HDCP 2.2 TVs.

If you don't watch much in UHD, plug any of the non compliant TVs into the splitter output #1, then all your other sets including the 4k set into the other outputs. Everything will be 1080 because H3 detects a non compliant TV on output #1. Your 4k will only be HD as well but at this time there isn't much 4k on anyway.

 

[JM42]

If you mean, will it pass 4k to your 4k TV & 1080 to the others? No. This is what I wanted it to do but it doesn't. I explained how it would pass 1080 to all sets at the very bottom below. With that setup the 4k set would not receive 4k.

In my old splitter setup (which I thought the splitter was 4k compliant), I used a HDMI cable that in fact was non compliant from my H3 to the splitter input. The cable wasn't all that old & I didn't think there was a difference. H3 detected this non compliant cable & only allowed 1080 to pass. On my 3 TV splitter setup (one TV being 4k) I never knew the difference until one Olympic channel (148-01) was to be broadcast in 4k. The picture didn't look any different than HD. An info check on my 4k TV indicated it was receiving 1080 only.

That will never work unless a scaler is added to the mix, and even then I wonder how the scalers deal with HDCP 2.2.

The best you can ever hope for is 1080 on all 4 sets when viewing an HD source and 4K only on the 4K set(s) when viewing a 4K source.

I know only the 4K set works for 4K sources, but I'm still not 100% clear what happens for HD output when the 4K is connected to port 1. Do all sets work?

If you can get 4K source on 4K sets only and the rest of the time get HD sources on all sets without having to muck with cables, I'd call it a success.

If not, then a switch between the splitter and direct to the 4K set would be a better choice.

Also, what (if anything) does the H3 output on the component ports when the HDMI is pushing out 4K? If the component output is hot with a 1080 version of the output that could be the answer.

 

[DERG]

If you mean, will it pass 4k to your 4k TV & 1080 to the others? No. This is what I wanted it to do but it doesn't. I explained how it would pass 1080 to all sets at the very bottom below. With that setup the 4k set would not receive 4k.

In my old splitter setup (which I thought the splitter was 4k compliant), I used a HDMI cable that in fact was non compliant from my H3 to the splitter input. The cable wasn't all that old & I didn't think there was a difference. H3 detected this non compliant cable & only allowed 1080 to pass. On my 3 TV splitter setup (one TV being 4k) I never knew the difference until one Olympic channel (148-01) was to be broadcast in 4k. The picture didn't look any different than HD. An info check on my 4k TV indicated it was receiving 1080 only.

That will never work unless a scaler is added to the mix, and even then I wonder how the scalers deal with HDCP 2.2.

Please don't take this the wrong way but my quoted post refers to my OLD setup. I am living proof that is how the setup was working & it did.
The splitter was non HDMI 2.0 + HDCP 2.0 compliant. The HDMI cable from the H3 to the splitter wasn't compliant, either. ALL three TVs worked in 1080 but the 4k set did not receiver 4k. These are facts. It worked in this way.

When I used a known HDMI 2.0 + HDCP 2.0 compliant HDMI cable directly into the 4k TV, bypassing the splitter, 4k was present on channel 146 & 148-01. I did not change any of the setting in H3 to do this. The Samsung 4k set indicated it was now receiving UHD 3840*2160 @ 60P. This is also a fact.

Using the compliant HDMI 2.0 + HDCP 2.0 cable as an input this time, instead of the older HDMI that I thought might be compliant as before, absolutely nothing passed through the splitter. All that happened was the splitter's LEDs blinked indicating an incomparable signal. This is also a fact, too.

I gather from this experience that H3 technology detects total compliance of all HDMI cables & TVs used.

The best you can ever hope for is 1080 on all 4 sets when viewing an HD source and 4K only on the 4K set(s) when viewing a 4K source.

Yes. But be aware of this I found this morning from a seller of the splitter I purchased,
"Hi Derg, when you use 4k Samsung TV,please connect the TV to output1, then the output signal will be HDMI2.0 /HDCP2.2.But when you wan to use your 1080P TVs,disconnect the 4K TV and connect one of 1080P TV to output1(plug in again),signal will lower to 1080P and output to 2 TVs simultaneously.(AV Access Team)"
I'm sending the unit back. It didn't work as was described in the sellers response until I swapped the compliant HDMI 2.0 + HDCP 2.0 cable for the same older cable that did work with the old setup. This is no good to as I'm right back to where I began.

I know only the 4K set works for 4K sources, but I'm still not 100% clear what happens for HD output when the 4K is connected to port 1. Do all sets work?
If you can get 4K source on 4K sets only and the rest of the time get HD sources on all sets without having to muck with cables, I'd call it a success.
If not, then a switch to switch between the splitter an direct to the 4K set would be a better choice.
Also, what (if anything) does the H3 output on the component ports when the HDMI is pushing out 4K? If the component output is hot with a 1080 version of the output that could be the answer.

Component is analog so 1080i I believe is max, isn't it?

I don't see a work-a-round worthy of doing. I'll do things manually when wanting to watch the other sets.