External Hard Drive Archive Bug Thread

[NightRyder]

The fact that it did transfer programs back and forth shows it was not spun down during THAT time. So who can say setting it for a few hours or even 5 minutes would not accomplish the same thing as NEVER? Someone with actual knowledge may step in as this problem is addressed in the future.

I tried the 5 hr. setting. Works until the drive goes to sleep and then you'll have the same problems. For right now setting to Never and unplugging when not in use or attaching to a switched power source seem to be the best solutions. Whether Running a drive 24/7 is a good idea depends on many factors such as drive design, environment, power stability/reliability etc.

NightRyder

 

[MNHTUG]

External HD: Seagate Freeagent Software

Until Dish fixes this bug, you'll need to change some settings on your Seagate Freeagent drive for it to work properly with your 622. When you run the configuration utility, set SLEEP INTERVAL to NEVER and turn off the external light if so desired. I have not yet done this procedure but having searched for a while to find out how, I decided to create a thread for this specific external-hd work-around.

Download the software linked below then follow instructions provided by NightRyder...

seagate.com/support/freeagent/desktop-recovery-efigs.zip

1. Download the utility "desktop-recovery-efigs.zip" from Seagate.COM
2. Unzip - Specify a folder <I just created one on my desktop>
3. After unzipping run the setup, extract it to your local drive <Choose or create a folder you can easily find>.
4. Go to the folder you extracted to and execute the installation program
5. End the install when it gets to the "backup software" part.
6. At this point you will have a desktop icon.
7. Plug the drive in, let Windows recognize it
8. Double click on the icon
9. Let the software find the drive
10. Select Utilities and set the Sleep Interval to the desired time (You can also adjust the drive lights here.)
11. Select Apply.
12. Exit program

NightRyder

 

[psirus]

USB 2.0 for older computers (tangentially related to this thread)

I have given up. I tried to follow all your directions and thank you for the advice. I guess I am a lost cause. The first problem I had was my computer hung trying to install the FreeAgent tools. Once I got over that I plugged the Drive into one of my USB slots. I guess my computer doesn't have a USB 2.0 capability. It is 1.1.

Whatever your issues with Dish, in this day and age having only 1.1 USB capability is close to having no USB functionality at all, especially for devices transferring large amounts of data. It is very easy and inexpensive to add USB 2.0 connectors to most PC's (a DESKTOP with an open slot can use inexpensive USB 2.0 cards -- one example at

Amazon.com: LACIE 107435 USB-2.0 PCI Card ( Windows PC ): Electronics;

older LAPTOPS can usually use a Cardbus to accomplish the same thing -- example:

Amazon.com: Addonics CardBus USB 2.0 Adapter (ADCBUSB2): Electronics

If you're planning to hold on to your old computer for a while, this may be worth your while.

 

[NightRyder]

The 5 year warranty is NICE ...I am more concerned about the info that gets lost on the drive if and when it fails. The warranty doesnt pay for data recovery.

Same here. Before I put my second drive in use I want to try Ghosting the one I currently have in service just to see if it could be used as a potential means of backup.

NightRyder

 

[hdaddikt]

I tried the 5 hr. setting. Works until the drive goes to sleep and then you'll have the same problems. For right now setting to Never and unplugging when not in use or attaching to a switched power source seem to be the best solutions. Whether Running a drive 24/7 is a good idea depends on many factors such as drive design, environment, power stability/reliability etc.

NightRyder

Thanks!
That is the info I was hoping for based on someone who actually tried it.
You saved me the added trouble for resetting tools.

One suggestion is connecting the AC to the back of an a/v receiver with a switched outlet, unless you don't always use it with your Dish viewing. Actually, I have a switched outlet on my power conditioner, so will set that up to sync with my receiver switching off.

Data recovery could be a real concern. But now you are getting into a back up for the back up scenario. Drives do fail on occasion for all kinds of reasons besides running continuously.

A friend who was a drive engineer for some 13 years told me it should not be a big deal running 24/7 unless the location is abnormally warm with little or no ventilation. He had worked for Seagate, Quantum and others. But if you can avoid it that's probably a better course.

 

[Tvlman]

It seems like everyone is fumbling around. Where are Dish's instructions on installing your external drive and how to operate it? Are they online here or on Dish?? Would like to find out how this works before I go out and buy an external drive. This is not very encouraging.

 

[gadams]

Bear in mind, however, that there is a REASON that Seagate (and others) set the drives to spin down during inactivity: it dramatically increases the longevity of the drive. Why have it spinning 24x7 when you might not even access it on any given day? I've had drives burn out in the past, and you wouldn't believe what it costs to retrieve the data, if it's possible at all.

As a alternative, you (anyone reading this thread) might want to simply choose a longer timeout period, say an hour or two (or even longer if you're on your 622 all day long and accessing the external hard drive constantly). That should at least minimize, if not eliminate, any issues while you're using the external drive, although on occasion you'll still have to use the workarounds to reactivate the drive after a timeout.

 

[hdqboss]

When the external drive threads really got going early this year, I kept talking about how folks would need to find high quality enterprise class hard drives because the cheap stuff sold to consumers would not be very tolerant to 24/7 operation. I was told over and over that NOBODY was going to do that and that most folks would be turning them off MOST of the time.

Well, here we are and I see that what I said would happen has happened. i guess 25 years in computing seems to have given me a little bit of clue as to how most people actually operate!

Most of the problems I hear are from people leaving their drives plugged in and hooked up 24/7.

Hey folks! Desktop drives are not designed to last long that way. These cheapo desktop backup units spindown to save the life of the drive. If you moved your files and turned off the drive, most of these problems would go away. The powersave programming on the FreeAgent drives, at least the non-Pro models, seems to turn the USB connection off as well as the drive.

I would be willing to bet DiSH made compatibility claims based on one of two things:
1) Their tests were made with bare OEM drives
2) The user would turn on the drive, plug in the drive, make programming moves, and then shutdown and disconnect the drive.

The only bug I have read that is most likely a real bug is the one person who says he cannot delete programs from his external drive.

I'm new to this site - spent the last couple of hours reading all the threads on EHDs - a lot of good info. Based on 8bitbytes comments on desktop backup units (such as Seagate FreeAgent) would the better option be to go with a Seagate DB35 drive with an Antec MX-1 enclosure? Would I gain (or lose) anything?

 

[8bitbytes]

A friend who was a drive engineer for some 13 years told me it should not be a big deal running 24/7 unless the location is abnormally warm with little or no ventilation. He had worked for Seagate, Quantum and others. But if you can avoid it that's probably a better course.

13 years ago drives cost a fortune and were manufactured to last. now they are cranked out by the millions with the expectation of lasting maybe 2 to 3 years. Desktop drives are designed with the knowledge that desktops do not run 24/7 and have added ventilation to remove heat. If you stick one of those drives in an external enclosure and try to run it 24/7, you will be exceeding the design specifications. Typically only the Starship Enterprise has been able to get away with that on a regular basis.

 

[8bitbytes]

I'm new to this site - spent the last couple of hours reading all the threads on EHDs - a lot of good info. Based on 8bitbytes comments on desktop backup units (such as Seagate FreeAgent) would the better option be to go with a Seagate DB35 drive with an Antec MX-1 enclosure? Would I gain (or lose) anything?

Your only concern for looking at a higher grade drive is if you plan on leaving your drive hooked up and running 24/7. The highest speed USB chipset on the market right now is the Cypress CY68300B chipset. You might look for an enclosure using that.

I posted links to a couple of external drives awhile back that others are having good success with. I have not been able to make my Seagate DB35.3 choke yet but typically the usb chipset will be your biggest bottleneck.

For those who are turning their drives off most of the time, MyBooks and FreeAgents are working fine.

But it is early yet!

 

[hdaddikt]

13 years ago drives cost a fortune and were manufactured to last. now they are cranked out by the millions with the expectation of lasting maybe 2 to 3 years. Desktop drives are designed with the knowledge that desktops do not run 24/7 and have added ventilation to remove heat. If you stick one of those drives in an external enclosure and try to run it 24/7, you will be exceeding the design specifications. Typically only the Starship Enterprise has been able to get away with that on a regular basis.

Well, I am not sure I agree with all you say. Granted, by lowering mfg. means they represent less loss on warranty claims, but the technology has continuously improved along with the lower costs when it comes to drives as well as other electronic components. Maybe you have the MTBF data to back your statement. It can be quite revealing. The usage you describe (internal pc and external packaging) are actually quite benign.
Using yesterday's technology would never yield the kind of drives available today with regards to speed, accuracy, AND reliability.
2 or 3 years? I have only one drive ever fail in over 13 years!
Not to say the operating environment, greater usage, and greater complexity do not add to the challenge of making them reliable.

Hard Disk Quality and Reliability

for the more scientific minded

Estimating Drive Reliability in Desktop Computers Consumer Electronics Systems

 

[8bitbytes]

Well, I am not sure I agree with all you say. Granted, by lowering mfg. means they represent less loss on warranty claims, but the technology has continuously improved along with the lower costs when it comes to drives as well as other electronic components. Maybe you have the MTBF data to back your statement. It can be quite revealing. The usage you describe (internal pc and external packaging) are actually quite benign.
Using yesterday's technology would never yield the kind of drives available today with regards to speed, accuracy, AND reliability.
2 or 3 years? I have only one drive ever fail in over 13 years!
Not to say the operating environment, greater usage, and greater complexity do not add to the challenge of making them reliable.

Hard Disk Quality and Reliability

for the more scientific minded

Estimating Drive Reliability in Desktop Computers Consumer Electronics Systems

The recently released and quoted/linked Google study shows all you need to know about desktop drives.

Yes, advances today allow us to use ENTERPRISE CLASS drives today that are unmatched in reliability and performance in the history of hard drives but today's mass produced desktop throw away drives are not made with that quality. 10 years ago, a Trinitron was bult to last 15 years easily. Today's Trinitron will most likely not make it to 5 years. These are consumer goods.

I use SCSI drives in my servers that no desktop drives could match in performance and durability EVER. Those advances you spoke of are clearly evident in those drives. Advances in technology have enabled drive manufacturers to get fairly relaible performance from a cost so low, it would have been considered impossible even 10 years ago.

Drive manufacturers have been quoted as saying they design and build consumer desktop drives as cheaply as possible but with enough quality to last 2 to 3 years, for those that don't fail in the first month. MTBF tests are a lot like gas mileage estimates or the number of hours a light bulb will last.

But you don't have to trust me, go ahead and put all your eggs in that desktop drive basket!

 

[MNHTUG]

My drive is plugged into power from my receiver. The receiver gets shut off when not in use. I'm not overly excited about this configuration but it works.

I bought the Freeagent because it has no fan and comes with a five year warranty. With the added work to get it working properly, I may have considered another drive. Dish Network should address this problem.

 

[hdaddikt]

But you don't have to trust me, go ahead and put all your eggs in that desktop drive basket!

Not that I don't trust you, it's just that I don't see the increase in failure rates you speak of in either my personal usage or as a test engineer for 27 years.

Granted, MTBF figures, especially as quoted from a manufacturer, often speak about the 'best conditions'.
But even if you cut that by 50%, you not talking about hard drives failing in 2 or 3 years. Not by a long shot. But I certainly can't speak to your own experiences or applications.

 

[DefDude]

Same here. Before I put my second drive in use I want to try Ghosting the one I currently have in service just to see if it could be used as a potential means of backup.

NightRyder

if ghosting doesn't work, I have a detailed post that works to make copy's I just haven't got another drive yet but I can make a copy and have it on both the 622 and seagate hd.

 

[8bitbytes]

Not that I don't trust you, it's just that I don't see the increase in failure rates you speak of in either my personal usage or as a test engineer for 27 years.

Granted, MTBF figures, especially as quoted from a manufacturer, often speak about the 'best conditions'.
But even if you cut that by 50%, you not talking about hard drives failing in 2 or 3 years. Not by a long shot. But I certainly can't speak to your own experiences or applications.

Personally, I have only had to handle about a dozen desktop failures BUT I have seen a lot of laptop failures, mainly because of ignorant user abuse. I can't tell you how many sales reps I have seen just close the lid and drop their laptop in their bag, still running. I ask them how their laptop has been running and I get the laundry list of complaints. Then I point to their laptop and ask them if they know what that little glowing light means.

 

[hdaddikt]

Personally, I have only had to handle about a dozen desktop failures BUT I have seen a lot of laptop failures, mainly because of ignorant user abuse. I can't tell you how many sales reps I have seen just close the lid and drop their laptop in their bag, still running. I ask them how their laptop has been running and I get the laundry list of complaints. Then I point to their laptop and ask them if they know what that little glowing light means.

I've heard Dells are among the easiest to service laptops..has that been your experience?

Not surprised in what you have seen. Just in passing I see folks doing thing with all sorts of electronic devices that make me cringe.

 

[shill]

External HD problem.

Hello I have a seagate 500gb freeagent pro. The 622 constantly doesn't recognize it. I have to unplug it and plug it back in and then it recognizes again. Is this my HD or my receiver? thanks.

 

[dfergie]

Merged, like thread...

 

[NightRyder]

Hello I have a seagate 500gb freeagent pro. The 622 constantly doesn't recognize it. I have to unplug it and plug it back in and then it recognizes again. Is this my HD or my receiver? thanks.

It has to do with the HD and sleep mode - Here is a workaround.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/994583-post191.html

NightRyder